Expansion to 36, which city is number 36?

[Ford Prefect]

This is just spitballing, but would the NHL ever consider making the leap to Mexico City? Certainly an odd fit on paper, but there was a time when California and Texas based teams looked unsustainable too.

 

[Yukon Joe]

This is just spitballing, but would the NHL ever consider making the leap to Mexico City? Certainly an odd fit on paper, but there was a time when California and Texas based teams looked unsustainable too.

Just for fun I googled hockey in Mexico and found this story.

Hockey is making inroads in Mexico. Yes, Mexico

The L.A. Kings and other hockey teams see a chance to develop a fan base south of the border, with the hope of playing an NHL game in Mexico before long.

www.latimes.com

So there's 2700 registered players with the Mexican Ice Hockey Federation, and Mexico does have an IIHF national team. So that's not nothing, and the argument would be that with a NHL team that interest would only grow.

But the real question, as always - who is going to pay for a team? I mean if Carlos Slim wants to spend $1.2 billion on a team he can probably have one, but so far there's no reason to think Slim or anyone else wants to do so.

 

[Ford Prefect]

Just for fun I googled hockey in Mexico and found this story.

Hockey is making inroads in Mexico. Yes, Mexico

The L.A. Kings and other hockey teams see a chance to develop a fan base south of the border, with the hope of playing an NHL game in Mexico before long.

www.latimes.com

So there's 2700 registered players with the Mexican Ice Hockey Federation, and Mexico does have an IIHF national team. So that's not nothing, and the argument would be that with a NHL team that interest would only grow.

But the real question, as always - who is going to pay for a team? I mean if Carlos Slim wants to spend $1.2 billion on a team he can probably have one, but so far there's no reason to think Slim or anyone else wants to do so.

It could be similar to Vegas. Get the team, get the arena. Show it's sustainable and before long maybe an NBA team? MLB? The NFL is already doing games there. It might be a great tool to prove MC is a viable relocation/expansion destination for all the pro leagues.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

1 Canadian dollar = .73 US dollars. 1 peso = .06 US dollars. The median income in Mexico City is like 21,000 USD. It's untenable.

 

[Yukon Joe]

It could be similar to Vegas. Get the team, get the arena. Show it's sustainable and before long maybe an NBA team? MLB? The NFL is already doing games there. It might be a great tool to prove MC is a viable relocation/expansion destination for all the pro leagues.

So the Vegas thing - there was no pro team in Vegas, so locals could adopt the NHL.

Mexico City is home to no less than three Liga MX teams (I absolutely had to google this).

Plus I have no idea what other sports them follow down there.

That's the con argument.

1 Canadian dollar = .73 US dollars. 1 peso = .06 US dollars. The median income in Mexico City is like 21,000 USD. It's untenable.

But that's median income - in a city of 22 million people. That's over half of Canada's entire population. There are people with money in Mexico City.

That's the pro argument.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Mexico City is too big for the major leagues to ignore forever, but I'll go ahead and say that I'll be surprised if the NHL is the first league to jump in.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

So the Vegas thing - there was no pro team in Vegas, so locals could adopt the NHL.

Mexico City is home to no less than three Liga MX teams (I absolutely had to google this).

Plus I have no idea what other sports them follow down there.

That's the con argument.



But that's median income - in a city of 22 million people. That's over half of Canada's entire population. There are people with money in Mexico City.

That's the pro argument.

Of course there are people with money. Are those people going to be willing to spend $100+ USD on a ticket to an NHL game and is the owner going to be willing to pay the players in USD and take the gamble that enough people in Mexico City will be willing to pay NHL prices 41 times a year?

 

[Yukon Joe]

Of course there are people with money. Are those people going to be willing to spend $100+ USD on a ticket to an NHL game and is the owner going to be willing to pay the players in USD and take the gamble that enough people in Mexico City will be willing to pay NHL prices 41 times a year?

No freaking clue. I'm not the one suggesting it.

But if someone wants to find out it'll cost them $1.2 bil plus a new stadium...

 

[GKJ]

Tillman Fertitta has company trying to bring NHL hockey to Houston according to Gary Bettman. https://www.houstonchronicle.com/te...al/article/hosuton-nhl-expansion-19444117.php

I mentioned in the Houston thread that there was a belief of a second group, and that’s why Fertitta is interested.

It wouldn’t surprise me if Bettman and Co. are leery on Fertitta for that reason. They want people in the league because they want to be in it. Not to keep someone else out.

 

[Headshot77]

This is just spitballing, but would the NHL ever consider making the leap to Mexico City? Certainly an odd fit on paper, but there was a time when California and Texas based teams looked unsustainable too.

Mexico City is going to face a major water crisis soon. Realistically nothing and nobody should leap into Mexico City for the immediate future.

 

[Golden_Jet]

The league itself doesn't view it that way. Their spin is that while the NHL has 32 franchises, the fact that they only have 25 in the United States, comprising 22 individual markets, is a major problem for them. If you look at the numbers that way (subtracting the Canada teams and bunching the NY/NJ and LA/ANA teams together) then the totals look like this:

NFL: 30
NBA: 27
MLB: 25 (they also have duplicates in the Bay and Chicago)
NHL: 25

The NFL is the only league that is content and not really undergoing an expansion process. The NBA wants Vegas and Seattle. The MLB wants to get the hell out of Oakland and there's a non-zero chance the White Sox relocate before they also expand by two. The NHL expanding to 36 is honestly them keeping up with the other leagues for presence in the United States. Greedy? Sure that's one way to look at it. They look at it more as a necessity though.

It’s not all about catching up,
You also need to have 100 more quality players,

Mexico City is going to face a major water crisis soon. Realistically nothing and nobody should leap into Mexico City for the immediate future.

Isn’t there a water crisis in 4 or 5 states already.

 

[Tawnos]

Mexico City is going to face a major water crisis soon. Realistically nothing and nobody should leap into Mexico City for the immediate future.

You should read up on SLC’s looming environmental problems

 

[Bonk]

My $.02...

-- As I said in the CBJ thread, I live in Cincinnati and have no idea why Bettman brought Cincinnati up as an NHL possibility. The Reds and Bengals have cheapskate owners, Cinci just added MLS, there's no suitable building (the Coliseum is severely out of date). Plus the CBJ are just 90 minutes away and there's almost interest in hockey here.

Louisville would be a better option because it doesn't have MLB-NFL-MLS-UC-Xavier and is still growing significantly, although the NBA makes better sense there.

-- I'd really like to see Milwaukee get a team but yeah, I know, rink, ownership, small market...

-- I agree with those that said Mexico City could work...for some sport. As was mentioned, the NHL probably wouldn't be first. I went to the World Baseball Classic in Phoenix 10 years ago, and literally tens of thousands of Mexicans spent a ton of money on tickets, jerseys, concessions, etc., for the Mexico games. Of course right now there's the water crisis, and security is a major concern, but it could work under the right circumstances.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

My $.02...

-- As I said in the CBJ thread, I live in Cincinnati and have no idea why Bettman brought Cincinnati up as an NHL possibility. The Reds and Bengals have cheapskate owners, Cinci just added MLS, there's no suitable building (the Coliseum is severely out of date). Plus the CBJ are just 90 minutes away and there's almost interest in hockey here.

Louisville would be a better option because it doesn't have MLB-NFL-MLS-UC-Xavier and is still growing significantly, although the NBA makes better sense there.

-- I'd really like to see Milwaukee get a team but yeah, I know, rink, ownership, small market...

-- I agree with those that said Mexico City could work...for some sport. As was mentioned, the NHL probably wouldn't be first. I went to the World Baseball Classic in Phoenix 10 years ago, and literally tens of thousands of Mexicans spent a ton of money on tickets, jerseys, concessions, etc., for the Mexico games. Of course right now there's the water crisis, and security is a major concern, but it could work under the right circumstances.

Mexico City is in my 48-team MLB alignment, which I see reaching that amount of teams in 2089, long after I am gone.

 

[GKJ]

My $.02...

-- As I said in the CBJ thread, I live in Cincinnati and have no idea why Bettman brought Cincinnati up as an NHL possibility. The Reds and Bengals have cheapskate owners, Cinci just added MLS, there's no suitable building (the Coliseum is severely out of date). Plus the CBJ are just 90 minutes away and there's almost interest in hockey here.

Louisville would be a better option because it doesn't have MLB-NFL-MLS-UC-Xavier and is still growing significantly, although the NBA makes better sense there.

-- I'd really like to see Milwaukee get a team but yeah, I know, rink, ownership, small market...

-- I agree with those that said Mexico City could work...for some sport. As was mentioned, the NHL probably wouldn't be first. I went to the World Baseball Classic in Phoenix 10 years ago, and literally tens of thousands of Mexicans spent a ton of money on tickets, jerseys, concessions, etc., for the Mexico games. Of course right now there's the water crisis, and security is a major concern, but it could work under the right circumstances.

Someone in Cincinnati who thinks they’re serious clearly went to him. An old building isn’t a problem because a new team would get a new one.

 

[SheldonJPlankton]

The NHL has talked of expansion into Mexico. With Matthews being Mexican-American and the Leafs in need of a major shake-up if they want to evolve into a SC contender...maybe it's time to expand southward.

 

[GKJ]

The NHL has talked of expansion into Mexico. With Matthews being Mexican-American and the Leafs in need of a major shake-up if they want to evolve into a SC contender...maybe it's time to expand southward.

They’ve talked of playing games in Mexico. Not expanding.

 

[dj4aces]

I mentioned in the Houston thread that there was a belief of a second group, and that’s why Fertitta is interested.

It wouldn’t surprise me if Bettman and Co. are leery on Fertitta for that reason. They want people in the league because they want to be in it. Not to keep someone else out.

There was an episode of 32 Thoughts a month or so back where Friedman mentioned that Fertitta's interest could be related to rumors of a second group trying to being the NHL to Houston. So that story tracks.

 

[GKJ]

There was an episode of 32 Thoughts a month or so back where Friedman mentioned that Fertitta's interest could be related to rumors of a second group trying to being the NHL to Houston. So that story tracks.

That’s where I took it from, yes.

 

[Headshot77]

You should read up on SLC’s looming environmental problems

When SLC was brought up as an expansion candidate 1-2 years ago I lambasted the market, citing how their main driver of their economy, their Great Salt Lake, is drying up quickly. People will be poisoned when arsenic and other toxic chemicals become aerosolized from the arid lakebed. That city is truly f***ed and has no future, IMO. But that's true of a lot of things, so for now I don't really see why they can't enjoy some hockey before doomsday arrives.

 

[Yukon Joe]

When SLC was brought up as an expansion candidate 1-2 years ago I lambasted the market, citing how their main driver of their economy, their Great Salt Lake, is drying up quickly. People will be poisoned when arsenic and other toxic chemicals become aerosolized from the arid lakebed. That city is truly f***ed and has no future, IMO. But that's true of a lot of things, so for now I don't really see why they can't enjoy some hockey before doomsday arrives.

"In the long run we are all dead" John Keynes.

I'm not saying SLC doesn't have environmental concerns coming up - but I wouldn't say the city "has no future".

 

[KevFu]

How did you derive these numbers? I am a little uncertain as to what exactly they are.

My guess is that's he summing the total revenue required to sustain the sports teams in that particular market and dividing it by the market's population to get an idea how much each individual would have to fork out annually to make those teams viable.

Pretty much. I'm using CSA's where I can (or it makes sense), and MSAs where you can't or that makes sense; The average revenue per team in each sport times the number of each team each market has and dividing that by population.

Obviously, it's rudimentary, not exact, ignores the number of non-major teams and women's teams in the market, and overall is going to favor places with lower populations but no other major pro sports teams.


But I'm an excel nerd and a rudimentary list like that is a whole lot better than guessing!

 

[Bixby Snyder]

There are plenty of quality big US markets for potential expansion, the notion that the NHL would overlook any of them for Canadian markets is ridiculous, if the NHL does go to 36 teams it's all gonna be in the USA.

 

[dj4aces]

There are plenty of quality big US markets for potential expansion, the notion that the NHL would overlook any of them for Canadian markets is ridiculous, if the NHL does go to 36 teams it's all gonna be in the USA.

While I don't think you're wrong, I do feel like the NHL has a process of vetting prospective ownership and their markets (demographics, arena location, ownership financial data, etc) before they ultimately make a decision.

We know Phoenix will get a team if Meruelo follows through with building a new barn. We're somewhere between cautiously optimistic and certain that Houston and Atlanta are coming. There's your missing top-10 markets. But where else is there an owner willing to throw US$1bn/~CA$1.4bn at the BoG? By my count, KC is the only one.

 

[Bonk]

Someone in Cincinnati who thinks they’re serious clearly went to him. An old building isn’t a problem because a new team would get a new one.

Yeah, I agree he didn't just pull Cincinnati out of thin air, but I have no idea what local group would've approached him with a 10-figure offer.

It makes no sense on a number of levels.