Player Discussion Evander Kane - Part II - (July 22 -Turns himself into BPD/charged)

[Chainshot]

Discussion continued from here.

Click to read more...

 

[Onslow]

Its like Kane personally attacked some of you in this thread, it's ridiculous.

My jimmies are rustled, it's true. But I'll get over it and in the grand scheme of things, my opinion doesn't matter. It is the opinions of Kane's teammates/coaches/management that matter. And if they turn sour, then there's trouble.

I'm not saying that this is what is happening, but it's possible. There is a precedent.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

I didn't say Kane no called/no showed. My analogy was if a regular person just decided not to show up for work. I understand Kane called but they knew the full story. I guess I should have changed my analogy to calling in sick to work the day after one of your bosses saw you out the night prior getting **** faced drunk at a club.

Jeez, Zadorovs missed practices were child play compared to this. Crushing bottles of Cognac when you got practice early in the morning? If Kane did show they would have had to clean up the ice several times. Maybe it's better he didn't come.

I don't care what you feel about the practice situation, with everything else he has done or gotten involved with this is strike 2. How many occurrences are going to happen before Murray gets fed up and ships him out? I am actually kind of intrigued to see what ends up happening. This is a Murray player, someone he acquired personally and gave up a ton for. Let's see how he treats him, how much slack he gives Kane and if he ends up moving him if he slips up again. This is one of Murrays first big tests.

 

[joshjull]

Kane has had one incident as a Sabre. This one. Yet he's not receiving the same treatment as ROR because he had issues at a prior team? You find that fair?

Actually Kane's had two and both led to him missing a practice. After the first incident (missing due to getting caught up in a sexual assault investigation). His teammates were not happy he was allowed to play the next game. They felt he should have sat as per team rules. This time he is sitting per team rules. Lets not pretend his teammates getting annoyed isn't a thing to watch.

 

[enthusiast]

Then compare him to his peers, who manage to be at practice and on time and if they aren't, they are aware that they are going to not play which is why the number of players who miss practice in a given NHL season can typically be counted on one hand. It's unprofessional as compared to the rest of his co-workers.

well

I think this is the root of it for me. It's not super offensive or disrespectful, and it doesn't invalidate the 100% effort he's shown all year on the ice. Yeah, it's a bit dumb, and in breaking team rules he deserves the consequence rather than be treated differently than anyone else.

Even if we want to venture that only a handful of players miss a practice every year, rather than assume it happens more often and doesn't get blown up into a story every time, this is prime mountains out of molehills. I'm sure teammates were annoyed he was treated with kid gloves before. I'm also sure they're annoyed to see Matt Moulson and Brian Gionta get power play time.

 

[Myllz]

Actually Kane's had two and both led to him missing a practice. After the first incident (missing due to getting caught up in a sexual assault investigation). His teammates were not happy he was allowed to play the next game. They felt he should have sat as per team rules. This time he is sitting per team rules. Lets not pretend his teammates getting annoyed isn't a thing to watch.

Fair enough. I'll admit I haven't really paid much attention to that whole situation since there hasn't been any actual info released about it yet.

 

[Onslow]

Actually Kane's had two and both led to him missing a practice. After the first incident (missing due to getting caught up in a sexual assault investigation). His teammates were not happy he was allowed to play the next game. They felt he should have sat as per team rules. This time he is sitting per team rules. Lets not pretend his teammates getting annoyed isn't a thing to watch.

Precisely!

 

[joshjull]

well



Even if we want to venture that only a handful of players miss a practice every year, rather than assume it happens more often and doesn't get blown up into a story every time, this is prime mountains out of molehills. I'm sure teammates were annoyed he was treated with kid gloves before. I'm also sure they're annoyed to see Matt Moulson and Brian Gionta get power play time.

Players missing practice is a rarity and it is reported league wide when it happens. Please stop wasting everyone's time trying argue that its a common occurrence or happens more than we think. It doesn't.

Kane was given a clean slate when he came here. You would have thought he would be smarter with this opportunity. Its not a matter of it being the end of the world. But it could be the start of a potential problem.

 

[enthusiast]

Players missing practice is a rarity and it is reported league wide when it happens. Please stop wasting everyone's time trying argue that its a common or happens more than we think. It doesn't.

Any factual support? Any whatsoever?

 

[joshjull]

Any factual support? Any whatsoever?

With beat reporters at every single practice its impossible for a player to miss practice and it goes unnoticed. And if they miss practice the press is pushing to know why and as they wait to find out they're tweeting about it. In this day and age its impossible to hide a player missing practice and nearly impossible to hide why.

 

[Kennerdell]

Another thing is wanting solidarity in a locker room. I am pissed at Kane because it is ignorance on display for everyone to see. You think guys want their team name associated with this crap? These guys work hard to create an environment that is professional. If one dude is out galavanting the night before and misses practice you feel like his heart isn't in it.Ideally this stuff is handled in the locker room by the captain. Comes with the C. If all goes well Kane gets over this crap and rights the ship. It is an anomaly and he had a slip up. Oh well. If it continues then we have a problem we all hope we don't have. You can be pissed at a guy even if you like him as a player and/or person. I have defended him saying I don't care what he does if it doesn't interfere with hockey. This does. Let's hope it never happens again. I want him to work out here. We all do.
Ovechkin did the same thing in Washington and I can tell you the fan base felt the same way. Being around DC I heard all about it. And as stated above it is not common to miss practice at all in any sport.

 

[enthusiast]

With beat reporters at every single practice its impossible for a player to miss practice and it goes unnoticed. And if they miss practice the press is pushing to know why and as they wait to find out they're tweeting about it. In this day and age its impossible to hide a player missing practice and nearly impossible to hide why.

This is inaccurate, and ignores the fact that in many markets organizations have a stranglehold on the media narratives surrounding their teams.

 

[Chainshot]

It is possible we don't have a complete view of the inner workings of the lockerroom. Many have knowledge of things that fall outside the bounds of the permissible, valid commentary regarding player behavior, simply by having been an adult in WNY and it does at least give one pause to wonder how certain things come to light when other things do not.

That said, back to the Kane thread.

Suspended, want to see how he responds and get back to doing what he's done well on the ice and off in the last few months.

 

[Beerz]

Actually Kane's had two and both led to him missing a practice. After the first incident (missing due to getting caught up in a sexual assault investigation). His teammates were not happy he was allowed to play the next game. They felt he should have sat as per team rules. This time he is sitting per team rules. Lets not pretend his teammates getting annoyed isn't a thing to watch.

Haven't heard this before?

Source?

Anyways unless teammates have come out and said this directly I wouldn't be claiming this to be fact.

 

[joshjull]

Haven't heard this before?

Source?

Anyways unless teammates have come out and said this directly I wouldn't be claiming this to be fact.

What haven't you heard before? That he missed practice because he was getting questioned by police? That was known that day.

Or that some players were annoyed he wasn't held accountable for missing practice? That one was new to me as well yesterday. Hamilton talked about it when he was on with Schopp yesterday. He was asked by Schopp how the players felt about Kane missing practice yesterday. He said that he wasn't able to ask then because he found out about the reason Kane missed after the players left. But he does know some were very annoyed he wasn't punished for missing practice the last time. It's in their audio vault.

 

[joshjull]

Disco was on WGR this morning and said the decision to suspend was made after he, Murray and team leaders talked. The team leaders Disco named were Gionta, ROR and Gorges. Pretty normal I would imagine in this type of situation

 

[old kummelweck]

Disco was on WGR this morning and said the decision to suspend was made after he, Murray and team leaders talked. The team leaders Disco named were Gionta, ROR and Gorges. Pretty normal I would imagine in this type of situation

This is a tough one. Hopefully Kane falls on his sword and apologizes to the team. Best case scenario.

 

[hizzoner]

A guy misses work because he is being questioned by police and that is punishable? Same for getting hit by a drunk driver on way to practice? Same for jury duty? Cooperation with legal authorities in the execution of their duties UNLESS you are guilty of a crime ought not be a punishable offence. The issue should be fault based. Not giving yourself enough time to travel in bad weather, or long lineups at airport are excuses not reasons. But to say to police who want to question you that they should piss off because you have a hockey practice? That takes a lot of chutzpah. At my age and with my background I might ask police to hold off if I had a commitment but would make myself immediately available right after...

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

A guy misses work because he is being questioned by police and that is punishable? Same for getting hit by a drunk driver on way to practice? Same for jury duty? Cooperation with legal authorities in the execution of their duties UNLESS you are guilty of a crime ought not be a punishable offence. The issue should be fault based. Not giving yourself enough time to travel in bad weather, or long lineups at airport are excuses not reasons. But to say to police who want to question you that they should piss off because you have a hockey practice? That takes a lot of chutzpah. At my age and with my background I might ask police to hold off if I had a commitment but would make myself immediately available right after...

I think the issue there is not taking the time to cooperate with police, but having been up or out late, probably drinking, when there's practice in 8 or so hours.

 

[joshjull]

I think the issue there is not taking the time to cooperate with police, but having been up or out late, probably drinking, when there's practice in 8 or so hours.

Yep. IIRC they had come home pretty late from a road game that night and had a fairly quick turn around for practice the day.

 

[joshjull]

A guy misses work because he is being questioned by police and that is punishable? Same for getting hit by a drunk driver on way to practice? Same for jury duty? Cooperation with legal authorities in the execution of their duties UNLESS you are guilty of a crime ought not be a punishable offence. The issue should be fault based. Not giving yourself enough time to travel in bad weather, or long lineups at airport are excuses not reasons. But to say to police who want to question you that they should piss off because you have a hockey practice? That takes a lot of chutzpah. At my age and with my background I might ask police to hold off if I had a commitment but would make myself immediately available right after...

You really aren't getting this. He chose to do whatever it is he did after they got home late from a road game. That decision unfortunately led to him getting caught up in a sexual assault investigation. Thats on him 100%.

Getting hit by a drunk driver on the way to practice and jury duty are not things someone chooses to do. Or happen because of a poor decision. Frankly its pretty absurd you're trying to make the equivalency.

They're not annoyed he missed practice because he cooperated with police. They're annoyed he put himself in a situation that require him to do so.

 

[flashsabre]

IIRC, Gionta was the one who mentioned players were upset that the Sabres had Kane play after the Assault allegations came out but it was more about protecting Kane rather then being angry that he "got" to play.

 

[joshjull]

IIRC, Gionta was the one who mentioned players were upset that the Sabres had Kane play after the Assault allegations came out but it was more about protecting Kane rather then being angry that he "got" to play.

That's not what he said.


http://bigstory.ap.org/article/a7ba...ays-hes-innocent-amid-sex-crime-investigation

Sabres captain Brian Gionta said the allegation against Kane shouldn't be a distraction.

"It's one of our teammates obviously, but the bottom line is, when we're in this room we have to worry about hockey," Gionta said. "Lots of things happen, and that's for him to deal with. Part of being a professional is trying to separate things."

Gionta referred to the team statement when asked how the team will support Kane.

"It's a serious accusation, but at the same time, that's what it is at this point in time," Gionta said. "And until things change, he's our teammate and that's about it."

 

[joshjull]

Its worth pointing at as well that Kane was given the day off by the team the day this happened. He didn't just skip practice.

But I get players being annoyed he put himself in that situation and they have to deal with it.

EDIT: I think its also worth pointing out that they were just annoyed. Not that they hated him etc. Its a perfectly natural reaction to the situation at the time.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

You really aren't getting this. He chose to do whatever it is he did after they got home late from a road game. That decision unfortunately led to him getting caught up in a sexual assault investigation. Thats on him 100%.

Getting hit by a drunk driver on the way to practice and jury duty are not things someone chooses to do. Or happen because of a poor decision. Frankly its pretty absurd you're trying to make the equivalency.

They're not annoyed he missed practice because he cooperated with police. They're annoyed he put himself in a situation that require him to do so.

The quote you posted from Gionta, does not substantiate the bolded.