Player Discussion Evander Kane – Part 3

[joshjull]

Continued from here http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=120949225&posted=1

Click to read more...

 

[Husko]

I'd really like to see him with Girgensons this year.

 

[Afino]

I'd really like to see him with Girgensons this year.

I'd really like to see him off the team.

 

[SackTastic]

Even if this was a "perp walk", which I doubt, it was a really lame attempt. It resulted in one photo where Kane's one wrist appears to be getting cuffed. He's not fully cuffed with both hands behind his back, he's not being walked anywhere, let alone some distance that would allow a "parade". It seems as if there's one friggin' camera.

This isn't even a perp walk. If there was any reason for cuffing him outside other than policy, I wouldn't be surprised if it had more to do with Cambria. Since Cambria talked about having a conversation with BPD about not cuffing Kane, I can imagine someone thought, "Screw Cambria, he doesn't tell us how to work", and told a detective to cuff him anyway.

However it happened, bottom line is it's a low level case that won't go to a jury trial. There is no actual harm Kane suffered from influencing a future jury. Everyone knows if you get arrested, you probably get hand cuffed at some point. It's not some affliction to his civil liberties. There's photos in the news every day of a hand cuffed suspect getting put into the back of a patrol car. Somehow they get over the horror of the pic getting posted on a news site.

And again, we can reasonably assume the camera was there at all because of the BPD notification.

The bolded is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm sure you're probably right. Maybe they were teed off at Cambria any of the multitude of things they could rightfully be teed off at Cambria for. Maybe they were ticked off that they couldn't get enough on EK after the last incident that they were gonna 'show him' this time.

So to 'get even' they go out of their way to 'make a point'. Guess what?

THAT'S NOT THE JOB OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND YOU KNOW IT.

The job of LE is to ensure that existing laws are being followed, investigate and collect evidence when laws are not, and hand that evidence off to the state for prosecution. It's not the make their own policy, settle scores, influence the public, and impinge on the rights of those that are yet to be convicted for alleged offenses.

Just because it 'happens all the time' doesn't mean it's right. People's careers have been ruined because they were arrested in spectacular public fashion only to have charged dropped before trial and never refiled. How fair is THAT?

I'm not attacking you personally here ; you're in law enforcement, so your point of view is colored by your position in the system. But LE is oart of the government, and the more you try to chip against the rights of the citizenry, the more pushback should, and does, come. I gladly support that. (But we're clearly well outside where a reasonable discussion would ever occur on a hockey board. Unless we have a constitutional law section I don't know about. )

 

[Husko]

I also would enjoy seeing him on Reinhart's wing.

Kane-Reinhart-Girgensons could be a really good, multifaceted line.

 

[rtfirefly]

And again, we can reasonably assume the camera was there at all because of the BPD notification.

"We" don't assume that at all.
Any more than "we" accept as fact your fantasy scenario in which (as you described it) "she was throwing drinks on Kane , calling him racial epithets, and slapping him in the face for 3 hours before the incident". Or any more than "we" can credit your baseless suggestion that "they were ticked off that they couldn't get enough on EK after the last incident that they were gonna 'show him' this time."

I don't know the facts surrounding Kane's arraignment. My limited experience with lawyers (and my somewhat more extensive experience with the relationship between the media and lawyers) would lead me to much more strongly suspect that it was Cambria who tipped the News. But I don't know.

 

[toomuchsauce]

@ Sabresfansince1980

You wrote:

"Just so people know, walking a hand cuffed suspect in view of media and cameras is NOT a constitutional violation, as long as they are walking to or from some place with a legit purpose."

Did I stutter? Why did you reply to my post with this?

Just so everyone knows, I never said or implied anything to the contrary.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

And again, we can reasonably assume the camera was there at all because of the BPD notification.

The bolded is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm sure you're probably right. Maybe they were teed off at Cambria any of the multitude of things they could rightfully be teed off at Cambria for. Maybe they were ticked off that they couldn't get enough on EK after the last incident that they were gonna 'show him' this time.

So to 'get even' they go out of their way to 'make a point'. Guess what?

THAT'S NOT THE JOB OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND YOU KNOW IT.

The job of LE is to ensure that existing laws are being followed, investigate and collect evidence when laws are not, and hand that evidence off to the state for prosecution. It's not the make their own policy, settle scores, influence the public, and impinge on the rights of those that are yet to be convicted for alleged offenses.

Just because it 'happens all the time' doesn't mean it's right. People's careers have been ruined because they were arrested in spectacular public fashion only to have charged dropped before trial and never refiled. How fair is THAT?

I'm not attacking you personally here ; you're in law enforcement, so your point of view is colored by your position in the system. But LE is oart of the government, and the more you try to chip against the rights of the citizenry, the more pushback should, and does, come. I gladly support that. (But we're clearly well outside where a reasonable discussion would ever occur on a hockey board. Unless we have a constitutional law section I don't know about. )

- No, we can't reasonably assume a camera was there because of BPD. Besides, if BPD wanted to make a show of it...they didn't.

- I gave one reason why they would cuff him, it doesn't mean they wouldn't have cuffed him anyway. You then made up some stuff about getting even, as if anyone at BPD has some personal issue with Kane. I don't see why that would be.

- Anyway, cuffing someone is not beyond what LE does, it's actually a small part of thier job. It's not a big deal to LEOs.

- LE agencies do make their own policies, it's the basis for employee rules and so on. They're kind of necessary for internal discipline.

- Cuffing someone charged with a crime is not impinging on their rights, no matter who sees it.

- The Kane photo wasn't spectacular...dramatic.

- My view is not colored, just informed.

- State and federal law, and case law decide what LE can do. If you think that's chipping away at rights, take it up with the judiciary.

 

[Husko]

Random unrelated question, is LE/LEO a common abbreviation used in law enforcement derelict? I don't think I've ever seen a non-officer use the lingo, but it seems common place among officers. Just an observation.

 

[rtfirefly]

Random unrelated question, is LE/LEO a common abbreviation used in law enforcement derelict? I don't think I've ever seen a non-officer use the lingo, but it seems common place among officers. Just an observation.

Freudian slip? I assume the appropriate word would be dialect, not derelict.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

@ Sabresfansince1980

You wrote:

"Just so people know, walking a hand cuffed suspect in view of media and cameras is NOT a constitutional violation, as long as they are walking to or from some place with a legit purpose."

Did I stutter? Why did you reply to my post with this?

Just so everyone knows, I never said or implied anything to the contrary.

I really wasn't sure what you were trying to say, no need to get annoyed.

 

[Ness]

Kane with Girgensons would be a sick pairing. I don't recall seeing them together much, if at all, last season.

 

[sabrebuild]

Random unrelated question, is LE/LEO a common abbreviation used in law enforcement derelict? I don't think I've ever seen a non-officer use the lingo, but it seems common place among officers. Just an observation.

Or on NCIS

 

[Crazy Tasty]

And again, we can reasonably assume the camera was there at all because of the BPD notification.

The bolded is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm sure you're probably right. Maybe they were teed off at Cambria any of the multitude of things they could rightfully be teed off at Cambria for. Maybe they were ticked off that they couldn't get enough on EK after the last incident that they were gonna 'show him' this time.

So to 'get even' they go out of their way to 'make a point'. Guess what?

THAT'S NOT THE JOB OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND YOU KNOW IT.

The job of LE is to ensure that existing laws are being followed, investigate and collect evidence when laws are not, and hand that evidence off to the state for prosecution. It's not the make their own policy, settle scores, influence the public, and impinge on the rights of those that are yet to be convicted for alleged offenses.

Just because it 'happens all the time' doesn't mean it's right. People's careers have been ruined because they were arrested in spectacular public fashion only to have charged dropped before trial and never refiled. How fair is THAT?

I'm not attacking you personally here ; you're in law enforcement, so your point of view is colored by your position in the system. But LE is oart of the government, and the more you try to chip against the rights of the citizenry, the more pushback should, and does, come. I gladly support that. (But we're clearly well outside where a reasonable discussion would ever occur on a hockey board. Unless we have a constitutional law section I don't know about. )

You've got a real hard-on for this and I still don't understand why. This is the third time he's been involved with the BPD in a year for allegations against women. There's a pattern that is getting worse not better. I hope that getting handcuffed and booked will be a wake up call. The next time might not be so 'trivial'.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

You've got a real hard-on for this and I still don't understand why. This is the third time he's been involved with the BPD in a year for allegations against women. There's a pattern that is getting worse not better. I hope that getting handcuffed and booked will be a wake up call. The next time might not be so 'trivial'.

Are you still not guilty until proven otherwise in the U.S. I'm from Canada and many people in this thread are leaving me with the impression it's not true.

Let's see the evidence. If the video is good why are the charges this weak?

As for the perp walk with cuffs, I have no idea whether that's the standard.

There was a great line from case involving the attorney general in Ontario who ran offer a crazed courier cyclist.

"He (the AG) is not above the law but he's not below it either."

That goes for famous people like Kane too. Give him his day in court.

 

[Chainshot]

Random unrelated question, is LE/LEO a common abbreviation used in law enforcement derelict? I don't think I've ever seen a non-officer use the lingo, but it seems common place among officers. Just an observation.

I've seen it in a number of groups that I peruse with both current and former officers as well as just regular ol' citizens referring to them as such. It's like PMD around here.

 

[SECRET SQUIRREL]

You've got to be kidding me with this violation of civil liberties ****, nothing the BPD did was remotely close to that so please GTFO of here with that idiocy...here's an idea Evander (and every other whoas me conspiracy theory jagoff), stop doing stupid **** that can potentially be against the law and none of this ever exists. If by chance police talk/question you about something try being respectful and 99.9% of the time you'll be treated the same. Not that hard of a concept people

 

[Sabre the Win]

You've got to be kidding me with this violation of civil liberties ****, nothing the BPD did was remotely close to that so please GTFO of here with that idiocy...here's an idea Evander (and every other whoas me conspiracy theory jagoff), stop doing stupid **** that can potentially be against the law and none of this ever exists. If by chance police talk/question you about something try being respectful and 99.9% of the time you'll be treated the same. Not that hard of a concept people

I agree, I feel the summary from most posters regarding his 3rd incident is that it's always someone else fault than Evander himself. Now fans are blaming the BPD/TBN for making him look guilty.

Well he shouldn't have put himself in this position in the first place. It's really that simple.

 

[Clock]

Well he shouldn't have put himself in this position in the first place. It's really that simple.

That's sort of it. Between the obvious pattern this guy has and the obvious distraction that it's causing, I couldn't care less about his personal legal issues or civil liberties. This needs to not be a factor for the team, which is the only thing I DO care about.

He could be completely innocent at this point. I don't care. Tough luck.

 

[Paxon]

You've got to be kidding me with this violation of civil liberties ****, nothing the BPD did was remotely close to that so please GTFO of here with that idiocy...here's an idea Evander (and every other whoas me conspiracy theory jagoff), stop doing stupid **** that can potentially be against the law and none of this ever exists. If by chance police talk/question you about something try being respectful and 99.9% of the time you'll be treated the same. Not that hard of a concept people

I agree, I feel the summary from most posters regarding his 3rd incident is that it's always someone else fault than Evander himself. Now fans are blaming the BPD/TBN for making him look guilty.

Well he shouldn't have put himself in this position in the first place. It's really that simple.

It sounds like you and others simply don't understand why people (like... a lot of them) are critical of the concept of perp walks. It has nothing to do with saying Evander Kane is not guilty or "blaming" someone else for I don't even know what. The issue is that it is clearly prejudicial. It prejudices the public towards associating the suspect with guilt. You might not believe that to be true but the judges who have made rulings on relevant matters have agreed as much (regardless of what their rulings ultimately were). That's because it is true. People are easily prejudiced as a whole. Images are powerful. That puts the defendant behind from the start when it comes to trial, even if ever so slightly. That shouldn't be lightly brushed aside. Sentiments that it doesn't matter because [something about the suspect or crime] says it all really.

I really have no idea what the part about "being respectful [to police] and 99.9% of the time you'll be treated the same" has to do with it or Kane or anything else. I agree with the sentiment of being respectful towards police but it's way overly optimistic with that 99.9% hyperbole. It's just not realistic. It's not realistic to expect 99.9% of any people to treat you with respect back.

 

[haseoke39]

It's kind of incredible how invested folks get into the minutia of police protocol when it's a player involved.

The picture, the handcuffs -- much ado about nothing.

 

[Husko]

It's kind of incredible how invested folks get into the minutia of police protocol when it's a player involved.

Perhaps it's just an issue some folks care deeply about, regardless of player involvement? And a player being involved has just manifested the first opportunity for that care to be demonstrated on this hockey board?

The picture, the handcuffs -- much ado about nothing.

Perhaps you would feel differently if it was a picture of you in handcuffs being circulated around the internet.

 

[haseoke39]

Perhaps it's just an issue some folks care deeply about, regardless of player involvement? And a player being involved has just manifested the first opportunity for that care to be demonstrated on this hockey board?

Fair enough.

Perhaps you would feel differently if it was a picture of you in handcuffs being circulated around the internet.

If I'm a famous guy being formally charged with something, you know, I don't think I'd be all that surprised or upset. It's newsworthy, and cops handcuff people all the time.

 

[Jim Bob]

Given how much Kane loves the spotlight, maybe he didn't mind it much.



Seriously though, it is a weak move by BPD. There was no need to cuff a guy that is voluntarily surrendering himself on a misdemeanor trespass charge.

It wasn't a civil rights violation, just a petty thing that makes whomever decided to do it look childish to me.

 

[Dingo44]

Look at this nonsense from our favorite Jerry Sullivan:

http://buckyandsully.buffalonews.co...egal-problems-put-sabres-murray-in-bad-light/

"Power Take: Kane’s legal problems put Sabres’ Murray in bad light"

Sullivan is so smart but not smart enough to figure out the Sabres inherited that Kane contract, which I already tweeted to him.