ESPN - Inside the Rams-Chargers marriage as the NFL fights for Los Angeles

[Fenway]

ESPN explores the forced marriage of the Rams and Chargers and the NFL is now really worried about St. Louis

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28117460/inside-rams-chargers-marriage-nfl-fights-los-angeles

The Rams' lawyer, Andrew Kassof, argued for the lawsuit to be sent to arbitration, corporate America's venue of choice. Kassof's argument hinged on what he saw as a clear and simple technicality: The NFL relocation policy was moot because the Rams had the right to relocate whenever they wanted, due to their year-to-year lease in St. Louis' then-Edward Jones Dome. The lease had expired in 2016, Kassof argued, so the Rams were free to leave.

Judge Philip Hess sounded suspicious. "Do the Rams have the ability to move without the NFL's approval?" he said.

"No," Kassof said. "They need the NFL's approval, and ..."

Hess cut him off. "Isn't that what this is about? The relocation policy of the NFL?"

It was a stunning moment in a nearly empty courtroom. Hess' question had forced Kassof to undermine his own case. Christopher Bauman, representing the plaintiffs, seized on it, winning the argument and keeping the case out of arbitration. Last month, the Rams petitioned the U.S. Supreme Court to issue a stay, and the high court denied it. Teams have been forced to provide eight years of phone records and emails for discovery -- and had to hire legal teams and data experts to sift through them. Kroenke has had to foot all the legal bills for the teams and league, part of an indemnification agreement the league presented to the Rams, Chargers and Raiders on the morning of the L.A. vote. The legal bills have reached eight figures for some teams.

St. Louis is now seeking each owner's cut of the Rams' and Chargers' $550 million relocation fees -- about $35.5 million per -- as restitution, infuriating owners.

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[Centrum Hockey]

Why the NFL could not save one market out of the three that had owners that wanted to relocate is beyond me the rams name could have went to LA regardless of if they left St Louis or not. The NBA proves that retroactively labeling a team an expansion team is possible with New Orleans when they gave their pre relocation history back to Charlotte Charlotte Bobcats officially change name to Hornets, launch new website

 

[Brodeur]

My friends always ask how I got into hockey as a kid and (among other factors) I always point out the NFL bungling the LA market in 1994. There was an entire generation of people who had time to root for other teams and/or invest the energy into following other sports. So I'm taking some enjoyment (with Dean Spanos in particular) with the teams having difficulty getting an immediate foothold.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

The lawsuit that St. Louis filed is gonna haunt them and I love it.

Rumor was the NFL offered the city the Chargers to make it go away and we told them no.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

@Falco Lombardi
Where did you hear that it sounds like something from the onion.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

@Falco Lombardi
Where did you hear that it sounds like something from the onion.

Nowhere official. Just some local people who if such a thing were true, they would know. Taylor Twillman brought it up a few times.

In a vacuum, I suppose it would make sense. The Chargers won’t work in LA, St. Louis was wrongfully screwed (which is playing out in court. The Supreme Court has rejected the Rams’ appeal which wasn’t mentioned in the story) and this would kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

In reality, the vitriol towards the NFL is so great here, I think more people would rather see this lawsuit play over getting another team.

 

[David Dennison]

It's absolutely nuts how much this will end up costing Kroenke when it's all said and done. Its going to be the most expensive stadium in the world by a factor of 2 or 3, getting almost no public funding, and any lawsuit settlement he has to pay for. Maybe they will make it up with the rest of the development, but they may face the same cost overruns the stadium did because it's so close to LAX and because it's construction in California. No doubt it will host the largest events in the world, but he will never see a return on this. And it keeps sucking billions more from his other business ventures or he's taking on more debt.

And the Chargers are probably the worst part for him, not only do they get to play there for $1 a year, not only do they get a cut of a lot of the revenue, but they are just gonna saturate the supply in the market as long as they are there. What happens to the Rams when the Chargers are the better team?

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Nowhere official. Just some local people who if such a thing were true, they would know. Taylor Twillman brought it up a few times.

In a vacuum, I suppose it would make sense. The Chargers won’t work in LA, St. Louis was wrongfully screwed (which is playing out in court. The Supreme Court has rejected the Rams’ appeal which wasn’t mentioned in the story) and this would kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

In reality, the vitriol towards the NFL is so great here, I think more people would rather see this lawsuit play over getting another team.

It still really doesn't make sense for the powers at be to say no to an offer to have an NFL anchor tenant for the dome for a few years and a fair chance to come up with a Stadium plan unlike the one they presented to the rams which never had a chance due to Stan Kroenke/Jerry Jones.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

It still really doesn't make sense for the powers at be to say no to an offer to have an NFL anchor tenant for the dome for a few years and a fair chance to come up with a Stadium plan unlike the one they presented to the rams which never had a chance due to Stan Kroenke/Jerry Jones.

If you’re St. Louis leadership, do you really want to be in the same position you were in 2013-15? In a stadium that won’t work long term and thus you either are faced with losing the team or having to ask the public to put money forward AGAIN after they did and got burned? No way.

The only way I could see it working is if they rebrand a franchise and probably needs a local owner to try to sell it. That’s obviously not happening.

 

[Terry Yake]

Nowhere official. Just some local people who if such a thing were true, they would know. Taylor Twillman brought it up a few times.

In a vacuum, I suppose it would make sense. The Chargers won’t work in LA, St. Louis was wrongfully screwed (which is playing out in court. The Supreme Court has rejected the Rams’ appeal which wasn’t mentioned in the story) and this would kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

In reality, the vitriol towards the NFL is so great here, I think more people would rather see this lawsuit play over getting another team.

funny whenever rams fans in STL say stuff like they were screwed over by kroenke, the NFL, etc

because its not like rams fans in socal went through the same exact thing in the early 90s when they effed over by frontiere right? the rams fans here got to get a taste of how shady and messed up the NFL can be and now you guys get a taste

 

[Falco Lombardi]

funny whenever rams fans in STL say stuff like they were screwed over by kroenke, the NFL, etc

because its not like rams fans in socal went through the same exact thing in the early 90s when they effed over by frontiere right? the rams fans here got to get a taste of how shady and messed up the NFL can be and now you guys get a taste

It’s not the same. There weren’t the rules in place then that there were in 2015. That’s why the St. Louis lawsuit isn’t going away.

Also I can’t speak for everyone but the vitriol LA fans have shown St. Louis is pretty sad. You’d think if anyone could sympathize, it’d be them. I never have had a problem with LA fans themselves.

 

[Terry Yake]

It’s not the same. There weren’t the rules in place then that there were in 2015. That’s why the St. Louis lawsuit isn’t going away.

Also I can’t speak for everyone but the vitriol LA fans have shown St. Louis is pretty sad. You’d think if anyone could sympathize, it’d be them. I never have had a problem with LA fans themselves.

which rules are you referring to?

and the only times i've seen LA rams fans even react to what STL fans say its because the LA fans also find it funny that the STL fans complain when they literally went through the same thing in '94

 

[Falco Lombardi]

which rules are you referring to?

and the only times i've seen LA rams fans even react to what STL fans say its because the LA fans also find it funny that the STL fans complain when they literally went through the same thing in '94

the relocation guidelines set by the NFL after the Rams/Raiders left LA. The ones that St. Louis and San Diego and Oakland were told would be followed. The ones the Rams did not meet and as a result they are being sued and unlike other relocation lawsuits of the past, this one is not going away because they violated them.

 

[Terry Yake]

the relocation guidelines set by the NFL after the Rams/Raiders left LA. The ones that St. Louis and San Diego and Oakland were told would be followed. The ones the Rams did not meet and as a result they are being sued and unlike other relocation lawsuits of the past, this one is not going away because they violated them.

isn't that pretty much the same thing that happened when the raiders moved to LA?

rules were broken, lawsuits were filed, and the team moved anyways. nothing new

 

[Falco Lombardi]

isn't that pretty much the same thing that happened when the raiders moved to LA?

rules were broken, lawsuits were filed, and the team moved anyways. nothing new

Not exactly.

The government stepped in during the late 90’s and forced the NFL to change the rules.

This isn’t a lawsuit to try to bring the Rams back either.

 

[sh724]

funny whenever rams fans in STL say stuff like they were screwed over by kroenke, the NFL, etc

because its not like rams fans in socal went through the same exact thing in the early 90s when they effed over by frontiere right? the rams fans here got to get a taste of how shady and messed up the NFL can be and now you guys get a taste

The Rams coming to STL would be closer to when the Cardinals left STL. So if anything LA Rams fans got a taste of how STL Cardinal fans felt when they left for AZ.

The Rams leaving STL is an entirely different scenario. The city was committed to building a brand new state of the art stadium and the Rams had no interest. Kroenke's plan from the beginning was to move the team to LA as soon as he thought he could, which is now back firing big time.

 

[David Dennison]

The Rams coming to STL would be closer to when the Cardinals left STL. So if anything LA Rams fans got a taste of how STL Cardinal fans felt when they left for AZ.

The Rams leaving STL is an entirely different scenario. The city was committed to building a brand new state of the art stadium and the Rams had no interest. Kroenke's plan from the beginning was to move the team to LA as soon as he thought he could, which is now back firing big time.

Honestly I feel like the proposed STL stadium (as well as the Carson Raiders/Chargers stadium for that matter) was a bit of a bluff after the Rams announced their intention to move, it was a hail mary proposal to counter Stan's grand plans, money and head start to LA.

The STL stadium was gonna face steep public scrutiny: overwhelmingly publicly financed, still owing money on the old dome, no money from the county (County helped on the Dome, population is 1.5m vs 300k in the city).

 

[Centrum Hockey]

The Rams coming to STL would be closer to when the Cardinals left STL. So if anything LA Rams fans got a taste of how STL Cardinal fans felt when they left for AZ.

The Rams leaving STL is an entirely different scenario. The city was committed to building a brand new state of the art stadium and the Rams had no interest. Kroenke's plan from the beginning was to move the team to LA as soon as he thought he could, which is now back firing big time.

I am pretty sure bill bidwell at the time he moved the cardinals promised to back a future st Louis expansion bid.But the slot eventually went to Jacksonville/Charlotte NC. The rams to st Louis deal was the result of a failed expansion team and Kraft buying the patriots to keep them in foxbrough. It was also partly funded by Kroenke.

 

[Brodie]

the Chargers should move to Oakland.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

the Chargers should move to Oakland.

and the Athletics now control that stadium, don't they for all intents and purposes.....

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Phone Records to be Turned Over in St. Louis Rams Relocation Lawsuit - Football Stadium Digest

 

[joelef]

It's absolutely nuts how much this will end up costing Kroenke when it's all said and done. Its going to be the most expensive stadium in the world by a factor of 2 or 3, getting almost no public funding, and any lawsuit settlement he has to pay for. Maybe they will make it up with the rest of the development, but they may face the same cost overruns the stadium did because it's so close to LAX and because it's construction in California. No doubt it will host the largest events in the world, but he will never see a return on this. And it keeps sucking billions more from his other business ventures or he's taking on more debt.

And the Chargers are probably the worst part for him, not only do they get to play there for $1 a year, not only do they get a cut of a lot of the revenue, but they are just gonna saturate the supply in the market as long as they are there. What happens to the Rams when the Chargers are the better team?

at least he is paying for it on his own

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Its going to be the most expensive stadium in the world by a factor of 2 or 3, getting almost no public funding, and any lawsuit settlement he has to pay for.

Lebron James knows how much it's going to cost, in billions:

Not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7, ...

 

[gstommylee]

With this lawsuit, i could guess that st louis would never get a team again ever.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

With this lawsuit, i could guess that st louis would never get a team again ever.

They don't seem to be interested in trying to pursue one after kroneke and bidwell. The GTA and London would be ahead of them anyway if there was more expansion or relocation.