Proposal: Erik Karlsson for Bo Horvat

[GoodbyeLuongo]

"Sorry I live in Canada, I'd much rather have $20CAD (Horvat) than $100USD (Karlsson)"

That's basically how dumb your arguement is. Karlsson can get you 5 Horvats. Just because your rebuilding doesn't mean you turn down the much more valuable asset, you take Karlsson and you flip him for way more than Horvat.

I can't believe this has to be said multiple times to canuck fans. Apologies to the few nucks fans here that actually understand hockey.

Idk, maybe because that player is the best defenceman in the world?

Or maybe because he literally carried a crappy team to one goal away from the SCF a year ago?

Or maybe because he has 2 Norris trophies and multiple nominations?

Or maybe because he has multiple times the value of Bo Horvat?

Or maybe because Vancouver could probably flip Karlsson for alot more than what Horvat is worth if the trade went down?


Jeez, other than that I can't really think of why Vancouver would do this....

I can't believe it has to be said multiple times that flipping Karlsson is no guarantee and flipping a player is not exactly a common occurrence in the NHL. When was the last time a player of value was directly flipped? It doesn't happen often. With the position the Canucks franchise is in, trading away their future captain for a player who we cannot guarantee would play more than 82 games for us and we cannot guarantee we could turn around trade would be a poor, risky decision. No one is questioning that Karlsson is far and away the better and more valuable player in this situation. But there are a lot of other factors to be considered.

 

[Martin Skoula]

So you’re admitting that he’s progressed at every step (season)

Correct? Can’t say the same thing about William Nylander, I guess.

Shoot you got me dude, Nylander's stuck with better stats than Horvat in literally every category even though he's younger.

 

[Addison Rae]

Shoot you got me dude, Nylander's stuck with better stats than Horvat in literally every category even though he's younger.

Honest question would you trade William Nylander for one year of Erik Karlsson?

 

[gianni]

Erik Karlsson will almost certainly have a better career than Bo Horvat, but the fact of the matter is that he'll be 28 years old in a month, has a lot more miles on him (close to 700GP), and has played a lot more minutes (close to 27min/game). Oh, and he's only signed for a year.

Just because your rebuilding doesn't mean you turn down the much more valuable asset, you take Karlsson and you flip him for way more than Horvat.

I can't believe this has to be said multiple times to canuck fans. Apologies to the few nucks fans here that actually understand hockey.

What if Erik Karlsson makes it clear he will play out the year so he can hit free agency like Evander Kane is doing. Does a team get 10cents on the dollar like Buffalo did when he is "flipped" later on? And when has a player been flipped immediately for 3x more value? That's just DUMB. Teams that make trades take the best possible offer in the first place esp. if they can get triple the value. haha

 

[Cogburn]

Karlsson with one year left on his contract makes zero sense for the Canucks. Him possibly not signing with Ottawa, who on the whole is a lot closer to competing then we are, is also a detriment.

Horvat isn't a better player. Horvat is one of the few bright spots we have, and I think there will riots of he is not named our next captain.

Taking one year of Karlsson, and let's be honest, that's likely all we will get, can't possibly be traded for the face of our franchise. If there is some kind of clause where we come to terms to resign him immeadiately or bwfore the trade, we win this deal hands down. No thought, no regret.

How ever a prime aged asset with one year to go will not fix our franchise, we won't be competing solely on Karlssons shoulders, as great as he is. Even ignoring the off ice stuff at the moment, we can't afford this trade, as if he walks, we've irreparably scarred our franchise.

That's why we say bo, the risk, not the value.

 

[AvatarAang]

I can't believe it has to be said multiple times that flipping Karlsson is no guarantee and flipping a player is not exactly a common occurrence in the NHL. When was the last time a player of value was directly flipped? It doesn't happen often. With the position the Canucks franchise is in, trading away their future captain for a player who we cannot guarantee would play more than 82 games for us and we cannot guarantee we could turn around trade would be a poor, risky decision. No one is questioning that Karlsson is far and away the better and more valuable player in this situation. But there are a lot of other factors to be considered.

If Benning can't flip Karlsson with a whole year to do so then that's a completely different issue.

By all means if canucks fans think Horvat is worth more than Karlsson because their GM isn't competent enough to trade Karlsson then I will be the first one to apologize for stating how awful this trade proposal is for vancouver.

 

[GoodbyeLuongo]

If Benning can't flip Karlsson with a whole year to do so then that's a completely different issue.

By all means if canucks fans think Horvat is worth more than Karlsson because their GM isn't competent enough to trade Karlsson then I will be the first one to apologize for stating how awful this trade proposal is for vancouver.

Nobody.Said.Horvat.Is.Worth.More.Than.Karlsson.Under.Any.Circumstances.

 

[me2]

Doesn't make sense for either side really.

Absolutely none.

Sutter would be the Canucks #1.

Sens will want someone with higher upside, even if they are riskier.

 

[Index]

Makes no sense from Vancouvers side

 

[ATypicalCanadian]

What incentive does Karlsson have to say "Yes, I'll go to Vancouver" ? We're not climbing up the standings next season, we're extremely likely to be bottom 10 again next season. If you remove Horvat we have Sutter as the #1 C. This just isn't the type of move the team should make and if they did the cost would destroy what little depth we've started to add in young players for the future in the likes of Horvat, Boeser, Pettersson etc.

 

[RandV]

Realistically, if the Canucks were to trade for and sign Karlsson that's a move you do to compete so it only makes sense if we keep the other key competitive pieces intact: Horvat, Boeser, Edler, Tanev, likely Pettersson. This isn't one of those 'we want one of your best players but aren't willing to give up any of our best players' thing, it's just an indication that our depth sucks. Add Karlsson to the Canucks as they are, maybe we're a playoff team. Add him while taking out a key component or two, and it will be another 1-3 years spent trying to replace those guys so we can get into the playoffs. Trading for a 28 year old star and signing him to a long term extension is kind of pointless if you still need a few years to rebuild.

So that would leave the Canucks trying to scrounge up an offer with players that other teams can likely beat: any 2018/19 draft pick, Juolevi, Gaudette, Demko, Dahlin, Lind... and not much else after that. Would need to be a quantity type of offer which doesn't happen very often.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Honest question would you trade William Nylander for one year of Erik Karlsson?

Yeah just posted in the Karlsson thread actually,

If one of the prospect wingers we have impresses and/or shows chemistry with Matthews, and we get a long-term solution for our #2/3C, I could see Nylander+ being available. Again, assuming the contract demands aren't insane and the injury concerns are gone. Failing any of those conditions, I'd rather just take a risk and wait for UFA.

I think you'd be more open to it once you're sure Pettersson can transition smoothly into a #1C and draft a promising #2/3. If Kadri had his 30/30 season 2/3 years ago instead, I'd include him as the main piece for Karlsson without question.

 

[82Ninety42011]

Canucks say no thanks but of course Karlsson is the better player. Unless Karlsson is sign and trade he will not get his real value back in any trade. Why would any franchise give Sens Karlsson's real value in trade and then risk losing him for nothing to UFA? Pretty sure Karlsson will be dealt at the deadline to a contender for a 1st, prospect and maybe roster player.

 

[34]

Stuff like years of control only matters when they suit you. Sounds about right.

BEAUTIFUL LOOSE PUCK RETRIEVAL MATTHEWS!

Horvat is not on the same planet as MATTHEWS. Get real.

Horvat is average.

 

[Addison Rae]

Yeah just posted in the Karlsson thread actually,



I think you'd be more open to it once you're sure Pettersson can transition smoothly into a #1C and draft a promising #2/3. If Kadri had his 30/30 season 2/3 years ago instead, I'd include him as the main piece for Karlsson without question.

The problem is Pettersson despite being absurdly dominate hasn’t even been playing centre in Sweden and the Gradin the scout who pushed the Canucks to draft Pettersson suggested he will likely be a winger at the NHL level.

Vancouver and Toronto are also at different stages of development the one year of Karlsson could actually deliver something significant for Toronto like a cup, for Vancouver it just gives them false hope, they probably push for a playoff spot and not much else. Karlsson likely walks as a free agent and it just pushes the rebuild further back .

If Karlsson were signed I’d trade 3 Horvat’s for him, but he isn’t and risking one of the most valuable pieces in our organization for a player that will likely walk is just not great optics for a team that has absolutely no chance of winning with said player.

 

[PinkFly]

I can't believe it has to be said multiple times that flipping Karlsson is no guarantee and flipping a player is not exactly a common occurrence in the NHL. When was the last time a player of value was directly flipped? It doesn't happen often. With the position the Canucks franchise is in, trading away their future captain for a player who we cannot guarantee would play more than 82 games for us and we cannot guarantee we could turn around trade would be a poor, risky decision. No one is questioning that Karlsson is far and away the better and more valuable player in this situation. But there are a lot of other factors to be considered.

Yeah because “flipping” is so common in the NHL today, right?

You could keep Karlsson till the TDL and he will have more value than Horvat will at the peak of his career.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Pls stop, you're making sensible Canucks fans look bad. Horvat is a good 2C and I agree he has room to grow. Why would we even make this trade, we need young assets. If we're trading one for one try Boeser, which is obviously a non-starter. Not really sure the point of this thread other than to let people know you overvalue Bo.

1) You post is **** stupid because before attacking me, maybe see that I didn’t create this thread

2) If you actually read the thread, you’ll notice that I said Horvat is not worth Karlsson, but why the hell would we trade for Karlsson when he could just walk?

Again, try reading before typing.

 

[vcanuck]

Why would we trade Horvat for Karlsson when he will take his talents to Vancity to play in a REAL hockey market for free?

 

[Canadian Canuck]

You could keep Karlsson till the TDL and he will have more value than Horvat will at the peak of his career.

Yes because rental players always return young #1/2 centers...why the hell would we risk this? Flipping never happens in the NHL

 

[gianni]

Shoot you got me dude, Nylander's stuck with better stats than Horvat in literally every category even though he's younger.

Bo Horvat has 378 more faceoff wins and 2 more goals than Will Nylander despite playing 18 less games this year. Personally I'd rather have Horvat over Nylander; esp. when you factor in the leadership aspect. Nylander may end up having better regular season stats, but come playoff time, Horvat elevates his game.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

One year of Karlsson is more valuable than Horvat locked up. You just ask Karlsson what teams he would re-sign with immediately upon trade, and then you'll easy get 3x more value than Horvat at minimum.

Why is this so hard for certain canucks fans to understand?

Because flipping rarely to never happens in the NHL

 

[PinkFly]

Bo Horvat has 378 more faceoff wins and 2 more goals than Will Nylander despite playing 18 less games this year. Personally I'd rather have Horvat over Nylander; esp. when you factor in the leadership aspect. Nylander may end up having better regular season stats, but come playoff time, Horvat elevates his game.

Horvat has really elevated his game this playoffs...

 

[Tobias Kahun]

One year of Karlsson is more valuable than Horvat locked up. You just ask Karlsson what teams he would re-sign with immediately upon trade, and then you'll easy get 3x more value than Horvat at minimum.

Why is this so hard for certain canucks fans to understand?

Why wouldn't ottawa just trade to the teams he will resign with to get more value for them?

Seem's pretty simple to me.

 

[gianni]

Horvat has really elevated his game this playoffs...

Bo Horvat will be fine. He & Will Nylander have the same # of goals this post-season, and is just 1pt behind despite playing 0 games. haha

 

[GoodbyeLuongo]

Horvat is not on the same planet as MATTHEWS. Get real.

Horvat is average.

No one even compared them lol. Everyone knows you are in love with Matthews. How's that "Matthews better than McDavid" statement coming along? By the way, Horvat was on pace to outproduce Kadri this year had he stayed healthy. So is Kadri average too?

Horvat has really elevated his game this playoffs...

It's Horvat's fault the team isn't good? Besides, he has the same amount of goals as Nylander so far.