Erik Karlsson: 4 games, 7 points, +7 (leads the NHL), 3,27 short handed TOI/GP,

[fiveonfive]

If he's a generational defenseman, playing with a good defensive partner, behind a stacked group of forwards, with an average-to-good goalie, then why does his club doesnt make the playoffs?

Why was he outplayed by many other 1Ds in the POs

As many have said already, all the bolded are definitely not true. Especially during last year when his club didn't make the playoffs his partner wasn't particularly good, the forward group was not very stacked, and the goal-tending was mediocre at best. But his play definitely the team around the play-off bubble for a good majority of the season.

Also, I'm extremely curios on who are these multiple 1Ds that outplayed Karlsson in the play-offs?

 

[caymanmew]

Since karlsson's first Norris winning season, doesn't he have similar point separation from the next highest scoring defenseman similar to Crosby over forwards?

I remember making a thread ranking all active defenseman in career points per game (minimum 100 career games) and karlsson was destroying the competition...with guys like Letang and Subban significantly lower followed by another big gap and the rest.

Isn't that exactly what Crosby's doing? Why is one generational but not the other?

I'll try to find the thread.

There stats?

http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/nhl-active-defensemen-all-time-points-per-game-leaders.html

Karlsson: 0.812 PPG
Subban: 0.641 PPG
Letang: 0.625 PPG
Green: 0.614 PPG
Byfuglien: 0.588 PPG


For forwards
Crosby: 1.327 PPG
Malkin: 1.179 PPG
Ovechkin: 1.149 PPG
Jagr: 1.145 PPG
Kane: 1.011 PPG

So the different between Crosby and Malkin is 0.148 while the difference between Karlsson and Subban is 0.171.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Still no Stanley cups

 

[caymanmew]

Still no Stanley cups

The cup is a team award. Lots of great players never got a cup.

 

[fiveonfive]

There stats?

http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/nhl-active-defensemen-all-time-points-per-game-leaders.html

Karlsson: 0.812 PPG
Subban: 0.641 PPG
Letang: 0.625 PPG
Green: 0.614 PPG
Byfuglien: 0.588 PPG


For forwards
Crosby: 1.327 PPG
Malkin: 1.179 PPG
Ovechkin: 1.149 PPG
Jagr: 1.145 PPG
Kane: 1.011 PPG

So the different between Crosby and Malkin is 0.148 while the difference between Karlsson and Subban is 0.171.

If you normalize those to ratio's, Malkin scored 88.8% of what Crosby scored while Subban only scored 78.9% of what Karlsson scored too.

 

[Teufelsdreck]

How good is Karlsson's season start?

4 games played
7 points (2nd in the NHL)
+7 (leads the NHL)
3,27 SHTOI/GP

Game winning SO goal
Game winning OT assist

Tides ebb and flow but the fervor never recedes. Where should we erect the shrine, Ben?

 

[armani]

Tides ebb and flow but the fervor never recedes. Where should we erect the shrine, Ben?

If you don't like the thread on a "hockey discussion" board then why bother posting with this rubbish? Go waste your bandwidth elsewhere if you have nothing substantial to add (for or against the topic of discussion).

 

[Barrie22]

That is a misleading comparison. Thortons accomplishment is not comparable to what WG and ML have done in their careers. ML has seven 90+ assist seasons and WG has 13 seasons with over 90 assists, eleven of those seasons were 100+.

Bobby Orr has a much higher assist/games played ratio then Thorton.

My original point is that I believe that JT will be in the HOF but not necessarily a lock like people believe. To date, the Sharks have consistently disappointed in the playoffs a number of those years he was the captain of the team.

Its not misleading at all. What is misleading about saying thorntons peak has only been done by 2 other people? Since you know history shows the only players to have back to back 90 assist seasons says gretzky, lemieux, thornton. Nobody else has done it.

Now lemieux and gretzky are in another category that only belongs to those 2 players. And that is players that have 3+ 90 assist seasons.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

That is a misleading comparison. Thortons accomplishment is not comparable to what WG and ML have done in their careers. ML has seven 90+ assist seasons and WG has 13 seasons with over 90 assists, eleven of those seasons were 100+.

Bobby Orr has a much higher assist/games played ratio then Thorton.

My original point is that I believe that JT will be in the HOF but not necessarily a lock like people believe. To date, the Sharks have consistently disappointed in the playoffs a number of those years he was the captain of the team.

It's not misleading at all. The only person trying to mislead is you when you try to move the goalposts on what is being said. The fact is that there is only three people in history to post 90+ assist seasons back-to-back. There is only five people in history to post multiple 90+ assist seasons. Thornton has a 10 year period where he was the highest scoring player by like 150 points. To argue that he isn't a lock is quite honestly ignorant. To argue that he isn't generational when he was a scoring leader in the league for a decade long period is unbelievably ridiculous to me. The Sharks disappointing in the playoffs is the Sharks disappointing in the playoffs. Winning at that time of the year is a team thing and not an individual thing. Thornton has been doing his part when it comes to playoff production so that is not a legitimate criticism.

Uhh, you may want to re-think your definition of generational. There is a reason why they call them generational as in they only come around once in a generation, JT is not that guy.

See above. Leading scorer for a ten year period isn't generational to you is what you're saying. Being one of three people EVER to post back-to-back 90+ assist seasons isn't generational to you. Being one of five people EVER to post multiple 90+ assist seasons isn't generational to you. Your bar is set way too high if someone who has accolades like that isn't generational in a league that's been around for 100 years.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

One great hockey player. Blah Blah.... you have no soul.

 

[jbeck5]

There stats?

http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/nhl-active-defensemen-all-time-points-per-game-leaders.html

Karlsson: 0.812 PPG
Subban: 0.641 PPG
Letang: 0.625 PPG
Green: 0.614 PPG
Byfuglien: 0.588 PPG


For forwards
Crosby: 1.327 PPG
Malkin: 1.179 PPG
Ovechkin: 1.149 PPG
Jagr: 1.145 PPG
Kane: 1.011 PPG

So the different between Crosby and Malkin is 0.148 while the difference between Karlsson and Subban is 0.171.

If you normalize those to ratio's, Malkin scored 88.8% of what Crosby scored while Subban only scored 78.9% of what Karlsson scored too.

Conclusion: if Crosby is generational for his production superiority at his position, then karlsson is also generational for his production superiority at his position.

 

[caymanmew]

One great hockey player. Blah Blah.... you have no soul.

Dude don't post the short version that does not have his defensive plays! The full version is way better.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

If he's a generational defenseman, playing with a good defensive partner, behind a stacked group of forwards, with an average-to-good goalie, then why does his club doesnt make the playoffs?

Why was he outplayed by many other 1Ds in the POs

He was never outplayed by any 1D in any playoffs expect his rookie season and against Pitts after his sliced achilles was too much for the high octane Penguins.

It's not misleading at all. The only person trying to mislead is you when you try to move the goalposts on what is being said. The fact is that there is only three people in history to post 90+ assist seasons back-to-back. There is only five people in history to post multiple 90+ assist seasons. Thornton has a 10 year period where he was the highest scoring player by like 150 points. To argue that he isn't a lock is quite honestly ignorant. To argue that he isn't generational when he was a scoring leader in the league for a decade long period is unbelievably ridiculous to me. The Sharks disappointing in the playoffs is the Sharks disappointing in the playoffs. Winning at that time of the year is a team thing and not an individual thing. Thornton has been doing his part when it comes to playoff production so that is not a legitimate criticism.



See above. Leading scorer for a ten year period isn't generational to you is what you're saying. Being one of three people EVER to post back-to-back 90+ assist seasons isn't generational to you. Being one of five people EVER to post multiple 90+ assist seasons isn't generational to you. Your bar is set way too high if someone who has accolades like that isn't generational in a league that's been around for 100 years.

Ok, am i blind or did Thornton not post back-to-back 90 assist seasons. Wtf is going on here. Are we doing on pace? That really doesn't count. In theory yes but lol.

And LOL where the **** is MULTIPLE 90 assist seasons coming from? And Thornton has absolutely not been doing his part come playoff time. I mean he's been producing but for a guy who's supposedly "generational" he's been absolutely nothing of the sort when it matters most.

Even Capitals have choked constantly but in 2008/2009 Ovechkin was an animal in the playoffs showing his separation from his peers too. That's what generational players do.

 

[Barrie22]

He was never outplayed by any 1D in any playoffs expect his rookie season and against Pitts after his sliced achilles was too much for the high octane Penguins.



Ok, am i blind or did Thornton not post back-to-back 90 assist seasons. Wtf is going on here. Are we doing on pace? That really doesn't count. In theory yes but lol.

And LOL where the **** is MULTIPLE 90 assist seasons coming from? And Thornton has absolutely not been doing his part come playoff time. I mean he's been producing but for a guy who's supposedly "generational" he's been absolutely nothing of the sort when it matters most.

Even Capitals have choked constantly but in 2008/2009 Ovechkin was an animal in the playoffs showing his separation from his peers too. That's what generational players do.

Dates learn to read dates. Do you think thornton won the hart and art ross with 9 goals 24 assists 33 points? or 20 goals 72 assists 92 points?. Oh but wait a second lets see what happens when we add those 2 stat lines from the same 2005-06 season up. It is now 29 goals, 96 assists, 125 points. Wow amazing how learning to read stat pages comes in handy.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Ok, am i blind or did Thornton not post back-to-back 90 assist seasons. Wtf is going on here. Are we doing on pace? That really doesn't count. In theory yes but lol.

And LOL where the **** is MULTIPLE 90 assist seasons coming from? And Thornton has absolutely not been doing his part come playoff time. I mean he's been producing but for a guy who's supposedly "generational" he's been absolutely nothing of the sort when it matters most.

Even Capitals have choked constantly but in 2008/2009 Ovechkin was an animal in the playoffs showing his separation from his peers too. That's what generational players do.

You are blind. Joe Thornton had 96 assists in 2005-06 and 92 assists in 2006-07. And yes, Thornton has done his part. You should probably not talk about something you clearly haven't actually watched yourself. It's embarrassing for you.

 

[Andrei79]

Karlsson absolutely deserves every thread he gets. He's a special, special player. He's in the McDavid, Crosby level where you forget who they play for and just enjoy seeing a once in a lifetime player do their thing.

 

[WesMcCauley]

Karlsson absolutely deserves every thread he gets. He's a special, special player. He's in the McDavid, Crosby level where you forget who they play for and just enjoy seeing a once in a lifetime player do their thing.

agree

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

You are blind. Joe Thornton had 96 assists in 2005-06 and 92 assists in 2006-07. And yes, Thornton has done his part. You should probably not talk about something you clearly haven't actually watched yourself. It's embarrassing for you.

Dates learn to read dates. Do you think thornton won the hart and art ross with 9 goals 24 assists 33 points? or 20 goals 72 assists 92 points?. Oh but wait a second lets see what happens when we add those 2 stat lines from the same 2005-06 season up. It is now 29 goals, 96 assists, 125 points. Wow amazing how learning to read stat pages comes in handy.

You guys are right, I am blind, don't know how that passed me lol. Point still remains in playoffs tho. And I watched Thornton extensively cause I loved Marleau.