Book Feature Engraved in History: The Story of the Stanley Cup Champion Kenora Thistles (by Eric Zweig)

[Eric Zweig]

I have been fascinated by the story of the Kenora Thistles -- the team from the smallest town ever to win the Stanley Cup -- since I was 10 years old. At the holidays in 1973, my parents got my brothers and me a set of miniature replica NHL trophies. The Stanley Cup was engraved with the names of all of the winning teams, and also came with a booklet that had more information. That was the first time I ever heard of the Kenora Thistles. The rest of the trophies were lost over the years, but I still have that miniature Stanley Cup in my office. You can get my book about the Thistles from Amazon.ca or directly from the Publisher.

If you know the story of the Stanley Cup champion Kenora Thistles, you probably know it as one of the greatest underdog stories in Canadian sports. And it is. Sort of.

In January of 1907, the Thistles, from a town of approximately 6,000 people, travelled to Montreal, Canada’s largest city with a population of close to half-a-million and defeated the defending Stanley Cup champion Montreal Wanderers.

But it wasn’t as if a semi-pro baseball team from Pierre, South Dakota suddenly showed up in New York City and beat the Yankees in the World Series. No. The Kenora Thistles, in their heyday, were known right across North America as a hockey powerhouse. Yes, they were the smallest of small-market teams, even in 1907, but they reached their great success mainly with a group of homegrown superstars that was supported by their entire community.

My miniature Stanley Cup is on the left. I came across this full set of trophies for the
first time since my childhood last fall at the Sports Card Expo in Mississauga, Ontario.​

In many ways, the Kenora Thistles were like another small-market team of more recent vintage: the Wayne Gretzky-era Edmonton Oilers of the 1980s. Although Kenora was much smaller than Edmonton was, there are a great many similarities. Like the Oilers, the Thistles were a supremely talented team with a roster full of future Hall of Famers. They played an up-tempo, offensive game that may have put off traditionalists even in their day, but delighted most fans and impressed their rivals.

The Kenora Thistles, Manitoba champions of 1905.​

For much of Kenora’s Stanley Cup climb, hockey was still an amateur sport, so there wasn’t an issue with salaries. Still, the competition for players could be fierce. And then, the 1906–07 season marked the first year that Canadian hockey teams were openly allowed to pay their players. Contracts in this era were for no more than $2,000 which is certainly a far cry from the multimillion dollars of today, but the payroll very quickly became too much for Kenora to support.

The Kenora Thistles, Manitoba champions of 1906.​

Hockey fans circa 1907 didn’t have dedicated cable TV channels. They didn’t have 24-hour talk radio, twitter accounts, or apps for their smartphones to keep them up-to-the-minute with their favourite players and teams. They did have a lot of newspapers to read, and although there was usually only a page or two of sports news, the amount of hockey coverage was staggering. The hockey season lasted only the three calendar months of winter from late December until late March, but the gossip already ran all year long! It’s amazing how many rumours hockey fans could read about, and how much in-fighting and back-stage drama was going on between the teams, the leagues, and the players.

As I think you’ll see, the more some things change, the more they stay the same.

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[seventieslord]

Eric, this was an absolute must-buy for me when it came out. I've only skimmed it, but I'm impressed by the detail. I'm going to enjoy reading this a lot. We need more books about the pre-merger era. Keep up the great work!

 

[Eric Zweig]

Eric, this was an absolute must-buy for me when it came out. I've only skimmed it, but I'm impressed by the detail. I'm going to enjoy reading this a lot. We need more books about the pre-merger era. Keep up the great work!

Thank you.

 

[Theokritos]

Thanks for the presentation!

First question, perhaps a difficult one: Why Kenora? What did that small town with its club of homegrown players have going for itself that made it capable of competing in hockey with Montreal and Ottawa?

 

[Eric Zweig]

I’ve thought about that a lot. Obviously, if just being from a small town with cold weather was enough, many other small towns would have done it! They had some very talented players. Perhaps the fact that a world championship rower (Jake Guadar) lived in Rat Portage/Kenora face them inspiration that being from a small town didn’t have to hold them back? I don’t really know. But they were good!

 

[Theokritos]

I’ve thought about that a lot. Obviously, if just being from a small town with cold weather was enough, many other small towns would have done it!

Right. Any insights into the hockey infrastructure in Kenora?

 

[Eric Zweig]

Right. Any insights into the hockey infrastructure in Kenora?

Well, I think it probably helped that all the best players in town were funneled towards just one top team. (As opposed to in most bigger cities.) You read about the players starting in church and school leagues. I didn't come across anything to confirm that for youth players ... but certainly, by 1898-99, the High School team (featuring Tommy Phillips and Tom Hooper) was recognized as the best in town. Most of the Stanley Cup Thistles had played for the high school team when they were school kids. There had been a junior Thistles team in town by at least 1899 as well, and some players (Si Griffis, Roxy Beaudro) went from the High School team to the Junior team to the Senior team. (For a while the "senior" team in Kenora played in the "intermediate" league in Manitoba, so that gets a big confusing.)

As to the Thistles organization itself, it was generally headed up by prominent men in town, who had played for the team earlier or who were relatives of the players on the team. No one "owned" the Thistles, but these men looked after the interests of the team at the league level in Manitoba, and organized the events to support the team in town.

 

[Theokritos]

Well, I think it probably helped that all the best players in town were funneled towards just one top team. (As opposed to in most bigger cities.)

So maybe Kenora happened to occupy a kind of sweet spot in its time. Small enough for this, still big enough to produce some notable talent.

Did the town have any economic significance or was it just a economically neligible spot that happened to lie along the path of the Canadian Pacific Railway?

 

[Eric Zweig]

So maybe Kenora happened to occupy a kind of sweet spot in its time. Small enough for this, still big enough to produce some notable talent.

Did the town have any economic significance or was it just an economically neligible spot that happened to lie along the path of the Canadian Pacific Railway?

I think there was more opportunity in small towns of this era. A lot more economic activity than in small towns today. That, said Kenora was probably wealthier than most towns of a comparable size. (Gold mines, lumber mills, and already a growing summer tourism industry.) Plenty of decent job opportunities to keep players in town when that was basically how players got paid. But, then again, pretty much all the key players eventually left town to pursue better, life-long off-ice careers.

 

[Theokritos]

I think there was more opportunity in small towns of this era. A lot more economic activity than in small towns today. That, said Kenora was probably wealthier than most towns of a comparable size. (Gold mines, lumber mills, and already a growing summer tourism industry.) Plenty of decent job opportunities to keep players in town when that was basically how players got paid. But, then again, pretty much all the key players eventually left town to pursue better, life-long off-ice careers.

Did Kenora keep producing some notable hockey talent once the Thistles club couldn't keep up with the pro circuit anymore?

 

[Eric Zweig]

Did Kenora keep producing some notable hockey talent once the Thistles club couldn't keep up with the pro circuit anymore?

The book doesn’t really go into that, so I’m not really sure. But Kenora has almost always had junior, senior, or intermediate teams since then. And a few future NHLers have either played or come from there over the years.

 

[kaiser matias]

I'm embarrassed to admit I've only parsed through the book so far, despite ordering it on release (I have a very long reading list, though am working through it). But your work has always impressed, and what I've seen so far confirms that here.

That said, I'm interested in the process of writing: what was some of the more unexpected things you found when researching/writing? And was there anything you wanted to include but couldn't for various reasons? Or any challenges faced in preparing everything?

 

[Eric Zweig]

I'm embarrassed to admit I've only parsed through the book so far, despite ordering it on release (I have a very long reading list, though am working through it). But your work has always impressed, and what I've seen so far confirms that here.

That said, I'm interested in the process of writing: what was some of the more unexpected things you found when researching/writing? And was there anything you wanted to include but couldn't for various reasons? Or any challenges faced in preparing everything?

I hope the book will continue to impress you when you finally have time to really get to it!

There wasn’t much I came across that really surprised me. Just more (and sometimes different) information on things I only knew in part. One of the tougher things I hoped to confirm was how and when the families of the top players arrived in Rat Portage/Kenora. The most difficult proved to be Si Griffis. And much of what I found out about his family history (mainly on his mother’s side of his Kansas background) had to be cut. I could trace the Ingoldsby family back to England in the 1500s. Members of his American family fought in every American war from 1776 through the Civil War. But it all got trimmed from about 3 pages to 3 paragraphs because it wasn’t really part of the story I was telling.

 

[Theokritos]

The most difficult proved to be Si Griffis. And much of what I found out about his family history (mainly on his mother’s side of his Kansas background) had to be cut. I could trace the Ingoldsby family back to England in the 1500s. Members of his American family fought in every American war from 1776 through the Civil War. But it all got trimmed from about 3 pages to 3 paragraphs because it wasn’t really part of the story I was telling.

Sounds like material for a blog article.

 

[Theokritos]

Eric, the Thistles played an up-tempo, offensive game. We're still in an era when coaching was in its infancy and only gradually turning from simple physical preparation into game management. So who set the tone for the Kenora club on the ice?

 

[kaiser matias]

I hope the book will continue to impress you when you finally have time to really get to it!

There wasn’t much I came across that really surprised me. Just more (and sometimes different) information on things I only knew in part. One of the tougher things I hoped to confirm was how and when the families of the top players arrived in Rat Portage/Kenora. The most difficult proved to be Si Griffis. And much of what I found out about his family history (mainly on his mother’s side of his Kansas background) had to be cut. I could trace the Ingoldsby family back to England in the 1500s. Members of his American family fought in every American war from 1776 through the Civil War. But it all got trimmed from about 3 pages to 3 paragraphs because it wasn’t really part of the story I was telling.

Great thanks for the interesting reply. And agree with @Theokritos , it could certainly make a neat blog post.

 

[Eric Zweig]

Eric, the Thistles played an up-tempo, offensive game. We're still in an era when coaching was in its infancy and only gradually turning from simple physical preparation into game management. So who set the tone for the Kenora club on the ice?

Honestly, I think they just did what they were best at! It would seem that right from the beginning circa 1894 Thistles defensemen were rushing with the puck. They were probably the first hockey team to use tube skates, which made them pretty much faster than other teams ... so they used that to their advantage.

 

[Theokritos]

It would seem that right from the beginning circa 1894 Thistles defensemen were rushing with the puck. They were probably the first hockey team to use tube skates, which made them pretty much faster than other teams ... so they used that to their advantage.

That's interesting and something I definitely wasn't aware of. Also, I wasn't aware there were rushing defensemen that early.

 

[rmartin65]

That's interesting and something I definitely wasn't aware of. Also, I wasn't aware there were rushing defensemen that early.

Rushing defensemen have been traced back to Jack Campbell of the Montreal Victorias in the late 1880s. It probably goes back even further, but the game reports are very sparse/not detailed in that era.

 

[Eric Zweig]

That's interesting and something I definitely wasn't aware of. Also, I wasn't aware there were rushing defensemen that early.

Billy McGimsie would say the early Thistles defensemen “invented” rushing the puck … though that doesn’t make it true!

 

[Theokritos]

@Eric Zweig: Another book you have recently published is titled Hockey Hall of Fame True Stories. What it is about?

 

[Eric Zweig]

@Eric Zweig: Another book you have recently published is titled Hockey Hall of Fame True Stories. What it is about?

True Stories is very different book from Engraved in History. Instead of one long story on a single topic, it is MANY short stories (some as short as a paragraph; only a few as long as a couple of pages) on many different topics. Basically, it tries to tell many (mostly old-time) hockey stories more accurately than they've been told in the past. It's a pretty easy read. You can dip in and out of it at any point in the book, and hopefully find something of interest. Lots of great pictures too!

 

[Iain Fyffe]

Did Kenora keep producing some notable hockey talent once the Thistles club couldn't keep up with the pro circuit anymore?

Hope Eric doesn't mind me butting in here, but I can address this.

The MacKenzie brothers (Harry, Billy and Monty) were the next generation of talent from Kenora. They were born in Brandon but as far as I can tell learned their hockey in Kenora. Earliest record you can find of them is playing for the St. Albans team in the Kenora Church Hockey League in 1907/08. This team proved so successful (undefeated over the course of four seasons) that they eventually joined the new Manitoba Independent HL in 1910, though the name was changed to the more recognizable Thistles moniker.

The Thistles had a couple of unsuccessful Allan Cup challenges (1911, 1914). But Billy MacKenzie later won several Allan Cup challenges with Winnipeg and Melville, and Harry was on the Melville championship team as well.

Edit: The MacKenzies moved to the Rainy River region from Brandon sometime between 1895 and 1898.

 

[kaiser matias]

@Eric Zweig , after a longer delay than I had wanted, I finally read the book. And I am really glad I did.

It was an excellent read. The Thistles story is one I'm quite familiar with, and you had given it life, and kept things engaging throughout. The personal details about the players was really nice to have as well, as that is something I don't think is published anywhere else, and I liked seeing the photos of contemporary Rat Portage/Kenora.

Highly encourage anyone else interested in the story of the team to read it. The book covers pretty much every game the Thistles played at a senior level, both in the MHL and in Stanley Cup challenges, and also includes some valuable insight to the players themselves.

 

[Eric Zweig]

@Eric Zweig , after a longer delay than I had wanted, I finally read the book. And I am really glad I did.

It was an excellent read. The Thistles story is one I'm quite familiar with, and you had given it life, and kept things engaging throughout. The personal details about the players was really nice to have as well, as that is something I don't think is published anywhere else, and I liked seeing the photos of contemporary Rat Portage/Kenora.

Highly encourage anyone else interested in the story of the team to read it. The book covers pretty much every game the Thistles played at a senior level, both in the MHL and in Stanley Cup challenges, and also includes some valuable insight to the players themselves.

Excellent! Thank you. I'm glad you enjoyed it.