Post-Game Talk: Endgame

[Stoneman89]

Actually given the circumstances, I'd say they should be beyond criticism. No one else in the league is in the same futile situation as these two, except maybe Jack Eichel. These two are literally the entire team. They must score if we want to win, that's not an opinion, that's just a statistical fact because the rest of the team sucks. As a result, I don't think it's fair to start criticising them when things stop going their way for a few weeks. Not a single player can stay consistent for an entire season, let alone expecting these two to play at that level for 23 minutes per game.

The blame lies 100% with the rest of the team for not picking up the play (ie. Nuge, Neal, etc) and on the GM for not getting them any help.

No one is saying they are required to score at those levels all year long. But when stars go into a funk they need to do the little things right, playing the right way, and keeping the stats on an even keel until the puck starts to go in for them again. All the good teams do it. Getting a point on the PP and finishing minus 2 or 3 night after night is not doing your job. Just play evens on the 5 on 5 and we have a chance to win a lot more games. We have a lot of holes to fill, but until that happens, to keep us afloat, we need better overall play. From everyone.

 

[space321]

No one is saying they are required to score at those levels all year long. But when stars go into a funk they need to do the little things right, playing the right way, and keeping the stats on an even keel until the puck starts to go in for them again. All the good teams do it. Getting a point on the PP and finishing minus 2 or 3 night after night is not doing your job. Just play evens on the 5 on 5 and we have a chance to win a lot more games. We have a lot of holes to fill, but until that happens, to keep us afloat, we need better overall play. From everyone.

I wasn't talking about just scoring. I'm talking about the "defensive play" as well. No one can keep that up at a high level all year long. McDavid and Draisaitl were playing excellent offensive and defensive hockey for 23 minutes a night for 2 months straight. I don't pin any blame on them for this team's failures. It's about time someone else stepped up for more than 1 game in 40.

 

[Raoul Duke]

I wasn't talking about just scoring. I'm talking about the "defensive play" as well. No one can keep that up at a high level all year long. McDavid and Draisaitl were playing excellent offensive and defensive hockey for 23 minutes a night for 2 months straight. I don't pin any blame on them for this team's failures. It's about time someone else stepped up for more than 1 game in 40.

Can you imagine the pressure those 2 are under?
It HAS to be them.
Every single game.
Or the oilers lose.
No one else ever picks up the slack.

Pointing a finger at McDavid with the rest of the roster as it is is infinitely short sighted and anyone doing it should probably find a new sport.

 

[RegDunlop]

The problem really is basically rooted in your 2nd line.

When your 2nd line doesn't score it creates a ripple effect that is going to blow up in your face sooner or later.

The first line then has extraordinary pressure put on them to score and they learn they have to cheat for offence and this is reinforced by the fact that this actually can work for stretches when the goaltending is good enough.

The other ripple effect is downstream on the roster where 3rd/4th line guys are being asked to provide secondary offence and because McDavid is on the team, there is huge media attention given to this story.

Now the 3rd/4th line guys are clutching their sticks too hard.

2nd line not being good creates a massive bottleneck on the team that affects the other 3 lines profoundly and then when the goaltending hits an ugly stretch suddenly all the stuff that was working isn't working and you have young players frustrated.

Exxxxxxxactly!

 

[Stoneman89]

Can you imagine the pressure those 2 are under?
It HAS to be them.
Every single game.
Or the oilers lose.
No one else ever picks up the slack.

Pointing a finger at McDavid with the rest of the roster as it is is infinitely short sighted and anyone doing it should probably find a new sport.

Anyone saying the stars of a team don't have to play any defence and can cherry pick and fly by all the time, is infinitely short-sighted and they should probably find a new sport.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Anyone saying the stars of a team don't have to play any defence and can cherry pick and fly by all the time, is infinitely short-sighted and they should probably find a new sport.

If that’s how you see McDavid, your only proving my point.

 

[Stoneman89]

If that’s how you see McDavid, your only proving my point.

I really don't have any idea what your point is.

My point, is that, as good and McDavid and Drai are at piling up points, and as bad as the others are at getting points, we still need both of the stars to play a more complete game (especially Drai) than they have been playing the last couple months, where it seems they can only get the majority of their points on the PP, while getting killed at 5 on 5. Again, if they just played even up at evens, we'd probably have 4-5 more wins, even with the other limited scoring. And even the PP points are starting the dry up. Getting a point here or there with the man advantage and going minus 3 the rest of the game is not going to get it done. They are considered the leaders, and also make the most cash and get the most minutes, and nearly all the PP time, so I would think it's not a whole lot to ask to try to squeeze some defence out of them. The coach has said as much and it's well reported in the media. And this is not to excuse some but others for not doing their jobs as well. Chiasson has been a bust, and don't even get me started on Nuge. But it starts with the leaders. They get all the glory when things are going good, but they also have a larger responsibility when things go south and the ship needs righting.

 

[Raoul Duke]

I really don't have any idea what your point is.

My point, is that, as good and McDavid and Drai are at piling up points, and as bad as the others are at getting points, we still need both of the stars to play a more complete game (especially Drai) than they have been playing the last couple months, where it seems they can only get the majority of their points on the PP, while getting killed at 5 on 5. Again, if they just played even up at evens, we'd probably have 4-5 more wins, even with the other limited scoring. And even the PP points are starting the dry up. Getting a point here or there with the man advantage and going minus 3 the rest of the game is not going to get it done. They are considered the leaders, and also make the most cash and get the most minutes, and nearly all the PP time, so I would think it's not a whole lot to ask to try to squeeze some defence out of them. The coach has said as much and it's well reported in the media. And this is not to excuse some but others for not doing their jobs as well. Chiasson has been a bust, and don't even get me started on Nuge. But it starts with the leaders. They get all the glory when things are going good, but they also have a larger responsibility when things go south and the ship needs righting.

You’re right.
You don’t get my point.
Expecting 2 guys to carry everything, all the time, for 82 games, without lulls is unrealistic.
The team is full of deficiencies. McDavid and Draisaitl are pretty far down the list, when so many players provide nothing.

Disagree?
That’s fine.

 

[Stoneman89]

You’re right.
You don’t get my point.
Expecting 2 guys to carry everything, all the time, for 82 games, without lulls is unrealistic.
The team is full of deficiencies. McDavid and Draisaitl are pretty far down the list, when so many players provide nothing.

Disagree?
That’s fine.

Last night - exhibit A. Draisaitl gets a point on the PP, while the Oilers score 6, but still manages to finish the evening at minus 2. A lull? lol, it's getting up to 20 games now with a minus for him nearly every game, going for the green jacket. But sure, keep deluding yourself.

 

[MoontoScott]

Life for the Oilers in the last decade would have been much easier if veteran forwards learned to back check. The Song Remains the Same.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Life for the Oilers in the last decade would have been much easier if veteran forwards learned to back check. The Song Remains the Same.

Or if lines 2-4 weren’t littered with AHLers and past their prime losers.

 

[MoontoScott]

Last night - exhibit A. Draisaitl gets a point on the PP, while the Oilers score 6, but still manages to finish the evening at minus 2. A lull? lol, it's getting up to 20 games now with a minus for him nearly every game, going for the green jacket. But sure, keep deluding yourself.

Yes, if you look at the top 20 scorers in the NHL right now, only 1 player (apart from Mc-D and Drai) has a negative +/- rating and that's Mackinnon with-2. By comparison, Marchand is +20.

If you look at the top 30 scorers only Ovechkin (-12) has a negative stat approaching Drai's -20.

When you examine the 5 "high profile" forward names/stats that the Oilers have had in the last decade (Eberle, Hall, Nuge, Mc-D and Drai) how many were any good at back checking? I would say that Mc-D is probably the best of a somewhat suspect list.

 

[MessierII]

You’re right.
You don’t get my point.
Expecting 2 guys to carry everything, all the time, for 82 games, without lulls is unrealistic.
The team is full of deficiencies. McDavid and Draisaitl are pretty far down the list, when so many players provide nothing.

Disagree?
That’s fine.

Draisaitl isn’t on a lull. This is a liability. -20 half way through the season isn’t a lull thats flat out bad.

 

[MaxR11]

Yes, if you look at the top 20 scorers in the NHL right now, only 1 player (apart from Mc-D and Drai) has a negative +/- rating and that's Mackinnon with-2. By comparison, Marchand is +20.

If you look at the top 30 scorers only Ovechkin (-12) has a negative stat approaching Drai's -20.

When you examine the 5 "high profile" forward names/stats that the Oilers have had in the last decade (Eberle, Hall, Nuge, Mc-D and Drai) how many were any good at back checking? I would say that Mc-D is probably the best of a somewhat suspect list.

Yup, and THAT'S the culture. The best guys and the "stars" have, for too long, been given a longer leash or just flat out some sort of diplomatic immunity from being held responsible for poor poor defensive responsibility, care and play. It is extremely hard to build a successful NHL team that way in today's NHL when the top guys aren't held to the same defensive responsibilities and accountability. There's far too much parity.

This kind of mindset and culture can fracture a team. It eventually gets the whole team not buying in and everyone not doing their roles and the goalies are left on an island.

Lack of scoring depth is an issue but then you gotta suck it up and play with the cards you're dealt and quit cheating. Learn to grind out more 2-1 games. Heck, lose 2-1 but make it hard on the opposing team and LEARN how to ingrain the habit of playing the right way. Eventually the worm will turn if you stick to it. But they never do. Hopefully it'll be different with Tips and Holland at the helm.

 

[Soundwave]

Yup, and THAT'S the culture. The best guys and the "stars" have, for too long, been given a longer leash or just flat out some sort of diplomatic immunity from being held responsible for poor poor defensive responsibility, care and play. It is extremely hard to build a successful NHL team that way in today's NHL when the top guys aren't held to the same defensive responsibilities and accountability. There's far too much parity.

This kind of mindset and culture can fracture a team. It eventually gets the whole team not buying in and everyone not doing their roles and the goalies are left on an island.

Lack of scoring depth is an issue but then you gotta suck it up and play with the cards you're dealt and quit cheating. Learn to grind out more 2-1 games. Heck, lose 2-1 but make it hard on the opposing team and LEARN how to ingrain the habit of playing the right way. Eventually the worm will turn if you stick to it. But they never do. Hopefully it'll be different with Tips and Holland at the helm.

It's not going to be any different.

The only message the player gets from his POV is that they don't trust anyone else on the team to score so now they are chomping at bad habits.

This organization never learns how to get proper help for its top young players and then they react to that by over-reaching offensively because offence is how they instinctually process the game. They think to score-first.

Coaches don't have the power they used to, they can't scare the crap out of players or bag skate them without getting tuned out.

The onus is on the management to create a team where cheating isn't necessary, the Oilers never do that. That's the only thing young players understand these days.

Tippett isn't doing shit either, his system looks non-existent for a month now.

 

[tardigrade81]

It's not going to be any different.

The only message the player gets from his POV is that they don't trust anyone else on the team to score so now they are chomping at bad habits.

This organization never learns how to get proper help for its top young players and then they react to that by over-reaching offensively because offence is how they instinctually process the game. They think to score-first.

Coaches don't have the power they used to, they can't scare the crap out of players or bag skate them without getting tuned out.

The onus is on the management to create a team where cheating isn't necessary, the Oilers never do that. That's the only thing young players understand these days.

Tippett isn't doing **** either, his system looks non-existent for a month now.

They looked strong for two periods last night. But then. All went to hell.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Draisaitl isn’t on a lull. This is a liability. -20 half way through the season isn’t a lull thats flat out bad.

And he’s carried the team to wins in the past.
How many players is that true of.

Look, I know he’s playing poorly. Probably, because Tippit had to play the hell out of him. Which is an indication of the real problem.
If there was any supporting cast, Draisaitl’s minutes wouldn’t have been so ridiculous and he’d probably be playing better.

Why is this fan base always forgiving of players that are pretty much useless but always ready to attack skill.

Russell blocks shots. That’s it. Many love him.
Larsson has zero offence. No problem.
Nurse is practically a hero. He can skate fast and fight.
We dress 6-8 forwards that may or may not make another team’s fourth line.
Another couple that would make average third liners.
Zero legitimate top 6 wingers.

But it’s the 50 goal, 100 point guy’s fault.

 

[tardigrade81]

And he’s carried the team to wins in the past.
How many players is that true of.

Look, I know he’s playing poorly. Probably, because Tippit had to play the hell out of him. Which is an indication of the real problem.
If there was any supporting cast, Draisaitl’s minutes wouldn’t have been so ridiculous and he’d probably be playing better.

Why is this fan base always forgiving of players that are pretty much useless but always ready to attack skill.

Russell blocks shots. That’s it. Many love him.
Larsson has zero offence. No problem.
Nurse is practically a hero. He can skate fast and fight.
We dress 6-8 forwards that may or may not make another team’s fourth line.
Another couple that would make average third liners.
Zero legitimate top 6 wingers.

But it’s the 50 goal, 100 point guy’s fault.

Not to mention since Nurse has upped his physical game he really hasn’t done anything. His play lately has been abysmal