Embracing the Rebuild: Tank Nation, the Thread

[Chainshot]

So in an effort to keep the bickering down in the GDT's, much like last year we will have a place for people to come and rant/rail/applaud the state of the rebuild and voice their opinion on the state of "the tank". Keep it civil. Remember, we're all Sabre fans.

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They are in a state of rebuilding and we were forewarned that there would be suffering. It seems from this keyboard at least that the front office knew what they were doing when the made the comments about getting talent at the top end of the draft and the likely hood of their being suffering to do so. We're seeing it, as a disorganized 0-4-1 start shows.

It's also possible that pre-season success bouyed their expectations some, but a lack of public conversation from any party regarding extensions also seems to indicate the hope they may have had of possibly extending Vanek or Miller was contingent on starting the year in a more competitive manner. Already one of the youngest teams in the league, taking out their stalwarts in net and up front will make them younger and likely worse nightly. We may not have seen the depths of how bad the on-ice product will be yet -- the low water mark for this could very well be next season before things start to get better.

The rebuild is upon us. The "Tank" is here. It has arrived, like it or not.

Click to read more...

 

[Duddy]

Yup, people always wanted a rebuild to get some elite Talent, but they can't handle the baggage that comes with it. This team is going to be BAD for at least the next 2-3 years. I expect this board to become quiet, aside from the guys that just show up to bash Darcy.

We're in for a long long ride.

 

[Chainshot]

Unintended upsides to the current state of the team:

- The waiting list will get much shorter.
- Bathroom and beer lines at games will get much shorter.
- More opportunities to have out-of-town dollars flow into the bars here when they play the Leafs, Habs, Sens since tickets are flooding re-seller sites and the local demand is low.

 

[sabresandcanucks]

So in an effort to keep the bickering down in the GDT's, much like last year we will have a place for people to come and rant/rail/applaud the state of the rebuild and voice their opinion on the state of "the tank". Keep it civil. Remember, we're all Sabre fans.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

They are in a state of rebuilding and we were forewarned that there would be suffering. It seems from this keyboard at least that the front office knew what they were doing when the made the comments about getting talent at the top end of the draft and the likely hood of their being suffering to do so. We're seeing it, as a disorganized 0-4-1 start shows.

It's also possible that pre-season success bouyed their expectations some, but a lack of public conversation from any party regarding extensions also seems to indicate the hope they may have had of possibly extending Vanek or Miller was contingent on starting the year in a more competitive manner. Already one of the youngest teams in the league, taking out their stalwarts in net and up front will make them younger and likely worse nightly. We may not have seen the depths of how bad the on-ice product will be yet -- the low water mark for this could very well be next season before things start to get better.

The rebuild is upon us. The "Tank" is here. It has arrived, like it or not.

lol...sounds like the beginning of a Greek Tragedy. To complete the plot we would just need our top prospects to fail to pan out....Or suffer career ending injuries in the Stanley Cup Finals. Sophocles would be proud.

 

[sabres4ever]

My fear is the coaching. I realize this is his full first year, but time will tell if we progress in any area.

Our PP is non-existent, has been for a long time. You would think at some point between last year and this year, that they would have watched video of successful PP's, and tried to copy that. I see no difference in our approach to them except for the players.

That's just one example.

What is the plan? Improve on defense first? then offense? These kids need time to learn the game, we all know that.

This team is a hot mess, that's for sure. I just hope there's progress somewhere, and DR doesn't just hang on to RR like Lindy.

We are a very young team. I think the majority of this falls on coaching. Time will tell.

 

[stokes84]

Stay the course, Terry. Stay the course. There is going to be a ton of pressure from the media to veer from the tank, and throw a few band-aids on. Don't do it.

 

[FamilyGuy716]

I'm still optimistic about the future. We have a good pipeline of prospects. If we can add 2 first line forwards in the draft in the next two years, we should be all set with the rebuild. If we somehow get McDavid, we'll be set for years like Pittsburg and Chicago. We can then target a top line free agent in 2016 and be ready for the playoffs in 2016 or 2017 and beyond.

 

[AirBriere48]

Should have happened about 3 years ago. Bring it on.

 

[Chainshot]

I'm still optimistic about the future. We have a good pipeline of prospects. If we can add 2 first line forwards in the draft in the next two years, we should be all set with the rebuild. If we somehow get McDavid, we'll be set for years like Pittsburg and Chicago. We can then target a top line free agent in 2016 and be ready for the playoffs in 2016 or 2017 and beyond.

Oh, I have optimism for the future. That's about all we fans can hang our collective hats on at the moment -- they have talent coming and they are going to be in position to have more. What is required now is patience with the talent they do have. Guys require seasoning and they will get that as they play. And that also means there will be some bad, bad games between now and the end of the proverbial tunnel.

 

[Revelate]

I don't have a problem with suffering, just this particular brand of suffering. I wanted to see an energetic young team, battling it out every night. Instead we have the same lifeless 60 minutes we had before.

I don't see this season as it stands now as building towards anything beyond a draft pick. I think the way Rolston is managing this team is a negative towards their development.

 

[Duddy]

Another good thing:

No matter how long the rebuild lasts, we NEVER have to worry about our team relocating.

Thanks, Terry.

 

[SackTastic]

Embrace The Suck

 

[mcove]

There is one problem with comparing this team with Chicago or Pittsburgh during their rebuild period. They were losing games but their future stars (Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Towes, Kane, Keith etc) looked great from the start.
It is hard to see any signs of greatness in any of our prospects who we expect to take us to glory in 2-3 years.

 

[Chainshot]

There is one problem with comparing this team with Chicago or Pittsburgh during their rebuild period. They were losing games but their future stars (Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Towes, Kane, Keith etc) looked great from the start.
It is hard to see any signs of greatness in any of our prospects who we expect to take us to glory in 2-3 years.

Getting to the point that they could draft those guys (ok, not Keith, he was a 2nd rounder who spent time in the AHL before turning into the guy he is now), which is where Buffalo is basically at, was a lot of really bad hockey. Chicago stopped trying to bandaid their Mark Bell-lead rosters and tore it down before ever drafting Towes or Kane. Buffalo isn't there yet, they have not hit bottom.

 

[Chainshot]

I am reminded of this line:

Hitting bottom isn't a weekend retreat. It's not a ******* seminar. Stop trying to control everything and just let go! Let go!

 

[Crazy Tasty]

Getting to the point that they could draft those guys (ok, not Keith, he was a 2nd rounder who spent time in the AHL before turning into the guy he is now), which is where Buffalo is basically at, was a lot of really bad hockey. Chicago stopped trying to bandaid their Mark Bell-lead rosters and tore it down before ever drafting Towes or Kane. Buffalo isn't there yet, they have not hit bottom.

They could have and should have last season. I love Risto and Zad... but they should have been in the bottom 3 last season is what really pisses me off.

Oh well, I get to watch Chicago tear them up in person tomorrow, I'm hoping Zadorav gets a look!

 

[ZZamboni]

There is one problem with comparing this team with Chicago or Pittsburgh during their rebuild period. They were losing games but their future stars (Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Towes, Kane, Keith etc) looked great from the start.
It is hard to see any signs of greatness in any of our prospects who we expect to take us to glory in 2-3 years.

There's a reason for that. Most of those names are first, second or third overall picks.

And it depends on your personal definition of "signs of greatness" means.


Girgensons was more or less to be projected to be a solid 3rd liner. Maybe top out at decent 2nd liner. Well, he is still developing, but on his current course, he looks to fulfill that projection in a year or so. If that happens .. That is his "sign of greatness". His top. That's success.

Ristolainen looks good very early on. If he develops well, he could be a top 2 at worst top 4 Dman in the NHL. If that pans out, I would say ... That is his "sign of greatness". His top. That's success.

Hodgson was projected to be a top 6 player in this league. He's still developing, but in the current course, he looks like he will fulfill that projection. That is his "sign of greatness. His top. That's success.

I could go on, but I think you get my point. If you really meant top of the league talent. Again, top 3-5 picks will probably get you that.

If and it's a big big IF half our prospects pan out and top off at their best projected finished product.... That would be extremely successful. What teams have a 50% or better rate at developing their prospects to top out at what they projected to be as a finished product?

Suffering and sucking first. Good to great pick second.

 

[kenfury]

I put some of this in the last Game thread but feel it is more appropriate here.

This is the plan. We are following it to a T. It hurts but after the old rochester core failed, Drury/Briere left and we had bad drafts (2005 - 2007 no 1st or 2nd rounder other than Enroth panned out) the cupboard was bare. It was this or overspend for free agents to hold on to a 6-9 seed. We are still feeling echos of the previous ownership.

Compare us to Calgary a few years ago when they were clearly past their peak and tried to get back in by mortgaging their future and got less when their sale happened. Imagine what Iginla, RR, and Kipper could have gotten if they were traded in 2009 as compared to last year. Everyone was saying they should sell but they were convinced "just one more piece and we are back in contention". Calgary is a mess and probably will be for longer as they just dont have the prospect pool that we do. Buffalo is ranked #8 by Hf vs. #20 for Calgary.

This is not the season that the kids push out vets. That is probably next year when we really hit rock bottom. This year is about closing out old business, getting an extended look at prospects, selling off assets, and drafting high. It is going to be ugly. You may ask why is player A and player B together. The answer is that we are looking at combo and chemistry for the future. In much the same way that we are paying for years ago we are investing in the future.

 

[Clock]

Yes. I think it's funny some of the fans are NOW calling for Regier's head or are otherwise surprised that the team isn't doing well.

This is what a rebuild means. Forget about wins at this point as being the sole barometer for success, we're in for the long haul. Come back in a few years if you're not on board.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Unintended upsides to the current state of the team:

- The waiting list will get much shorter.
- Bathroom and beer lines at games will get much shorter.
- More opportunities to have out-of-town dollars flow into the bars here when they play the Leafs, Habs, Sens since tickets are flooding re-seller sites and the local demand is low.

Probably the only positive to come out of this rebuild is the economics of it (short term). Cheaper tickets because of lower demand, and more out-of-town money which is fresh money the community desperately needs.

I don't like intentionally tanking. I think it's stupid, because it's far from guaranteed. On that note, I think Vanek needs to be moved ASAP. The team probably wont be competitive for another year or two, and I doubt Vanek wants to stick around for that. Trade him away, but get leaders back in return. Something like what the Rangers did with Gaborik. Getting a player like Dorsett is ideal. We need more veterans in this line up.

Miller will probably want out, too. Not sure what we can get for him. A RW/LW prospect with top-6 upside? Perhaps a top-9 forward with top-6 upside...?

This is looking like the year we'll be getting a top-5 pick. I'm thinking the team is going to struggle into January or February. Hopefully by then we start to see them become more competitive. Next year they're a middle of the pack team. Perhaps they sneak in the 8th spot, but I'm not putting my money on it. If all goes right we'll be in the playoffs again by 2015-2016.

I put some of this in the last Game thread but feel it is more appropriate here.

This is the plan. We are following it to a T. It hurts but after the old rochester core failed, Drury/Briere left and we had bad drafts (2005 - 2007 no 1st or 2nd rounder other than Enroth panned out) the cupboard was bare. It was this or overspend for free agents to hold on to a 6-9 seed. We are still feeling echos of the previous ownership.

Compare us to Calgary a few years ago when they were clearly past their peak and tried to get back in by mortgaging their future and got less when their sale happened. Imagine what Iginla, RR, and Kipper could have gotten if they were traded in 2009 as compared to last year. Everyone was saying they should sell but they were convinced "just one more piece and we are back in contention". Calgary is a mess and probably will be for longer as they just dont have the prospect pool that we do. Buffalo is ranked #8 by Hf vs. #20 for Calgary.

This is not the season that the kids push out vets. That is probably next year when we really hit rock bottom. This year is about closing out old business, getting an extended look at prospects, selling off assets, and drafting high. It is going to be ugly. You may ask why is player A and player B together. The answer is that we are looking at combo and chemistry for the future. In much the same way that we are paying for years ago we are investing in the future.

Not that it has any correlation to the success of our prospect pool, but I'm pretty sure we're ranked number 2 by HF. I think we were number 8 last year.

 

[Jame]

Yes. I think it's funny some of the fans are NOW calling for Regier's head or are otherwise surprised that the team isn't doing well.

This is what a rebuild means. Forget about wins at this point as being the sole barometer for success, we're in for the long haul.

I'm getting exactly what I wanted... (although 2.5 years late)... Regier is doing a masterful job.

I LOVE this team

 

[Jim Bob]

Unintended upsides to the current state of the team:

- The waiting list will get much shorter.
- Bathroom and beer lines at games will get much shorter.
- More opportunities to have out-of-town dollars flow into the bars here when they play the Leafs, Habs, Sens since tickets are flooding re-seller sites and the local demand is low.

And prices on StubHub should come way down for non-premium opponents!

 

[Yatzhee]

Girg's looks to be a solid development in progress.
Risto looks the same.

Keep those high draft picks coming.

 

[Sabre Dance]

What is funny is Regier said the rebuild started with Gaustad. This man moves like he has no pressure on him.

Might as well shut this board down for 5 years while we wait for the rebuild to be complete. Seriously, the biggest move this offseason was trading away Sekera for a 2nd round pick.

 

[Jame]

What is funny is Regier said the rebuild started with Gaustad. This man moves like he has no pressure on him.

This logic has been debunked already.
In retrospect, the rebuild began when current assets (at that time - Gaustad) involved in the attempt to make the playoffs (contend) began being turned into future assets that are now part of the rebuild.

The Sabres were still trying to win... but were hedging their bets. In hindsight those hedged bets paid off in the current rebuild state.

stop complaining.

Might as well shut this board down for 5 years while we wait for the rebuild to be complete. Seriously, the biggest move this offseason was trading away Sekera for a 2nd round pick.

Yea, we may as well shut down the "hockeys future" board, during the most exciting aspect of looking towards that future...



but... if you insist.... tooddles :buhbye: