Embracing the Rebuild: Tank Nation, Part II

[La Cosa Nostra]

I don't expect Reinhart to score 60 considering I said I would be ecstatic if he hit that amount, meaning I don't expect him to do it. An Ennis type rookie season is more realistic 20-30-50.

And yep you guys are so right, on pace means nothing. That's why in 2005-2006 Briere was just an average 2nd liner, I mean what he only had 58 points which isn't that great. Never mind the fact that he only played 48 games, in 2005-2006 it was quite obvious Max Afinigenov was so much better then Briere. Afinigenov had 73 points and easily outscored Briere.

AFINOGENOV >>>>> Briere in 05-06. Kyle Calder, PM Bouchard , Mike Comrie, Darcy Tucker and Ales Kotalik etc were all better then Briere in 05-06, all of those guys outscored Briere. Briere in 05-06 was just an average 2nd liner .

A players pace should only be discounted when they have a small sample size a la Folignos 13 points in 14 games. But a 50+ game sample size pace is more then sufficient to grade out a performance.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

I don't expect Reinhart to score 60 considering I said I would be ecstatic if he hit that amount, meaning I don't expect him to do it. An Ennis type rookie season is more realistic 20-30-50.

And yep you guys are so right, on pace means nothing. That's why in 2005-2006 Briere was just an average 2nd liner, I mean what he only had 58 points which isn't that great. Never mind the fact that he only played 48 games, in 2005-2006 it was quite obvious Max Afinigenov was so much better then Briere. Afinigenov had 73 points and easily outscored Briere.

AFINOGENOV >>>>> Briere in 05-06. Kyle Calder, PM Bouchard , Mike Comrie, Darcy Tucker and Ales Kotalik etc were all better then Briere in 05-06, all of those guys outscored Briere. Briere in 05-06 was just an average 2nd liner .

A players pace should only be discounted when they have a small sample size a la Folignos 13 points in 14 games. But a 50+ game sample size pace is more then sufficient to grade out a performance.

Spoken like a person who only looks at stats.

 

[enthusiast]

Max was on fire that year

 

[Cirris]

Seattle expansion potential announcement - Hockeywriters.com

Part of me would be happy about this. Seattle really is the right choice for a new market: northern style climate, a hockey history, and large population.

But on the flipside. Gary Bettman can %^&* off. It's so obvious he's doing whatever is in his power to wreck the Sabres draft prospects in the next two years. They're trying to fast track this team for 2015 so they can award them Conner McDavid as first overall. This on top of the fact that they're trying to rewrite the draft so it'll lessen the Sabres chances of landing a top 3 pick as well.

I'm getting really sick and tired of the Sabres getting the two faced BS treatment from the league. They talk about how great the Buffalo market is for them. But every time it seems like they intentionally screw with our team when it's our turn to rebuild.

It's not like the Sabres have been the Islanders or Florida. The Sabres have only drafted top 5 once in the last 25 years. I'm pretty sure the Sabres have paid their dues and deserve the top picks coming to them.

 

[haseoke39]

Seattle expansion potential announcement - Hockeywriters.com

Part of me would be happy about this. Seattle really is the right choice for a new market: northern style climate, a hockey history, and large population.

But on the flipside. Gary Bettman can %^&* off. It's so obvious he's doing whatever is in his power to wreck the Sabres draft prospects in the next two years. They're trying to fast track this team for 2015 so they can award them Conner McDavid as first overall. This on top of the fact that they're trying to rewrite the draft so it'll lessen the Sabres chances of landing a top 3 pick as well.

I'm getting really sick and tired of the Sabres getting the two faced BS treatment from the league. They talk about how great the Buffalo market is for them. But every time it seems like they intentionally screw with our team when it's our turn to rebuild.

It's not like the Sabres have been the Islanders or Florida. The Sabres have only drafted top 5 once in the last 25 years. I'm pretty sure the Sabres have paid their dues and deserve the top picks coming to them.

It all depends on how they run the draft lottery. Last time they expanded, neither expansion team was given pick #1 or pick #2.

If we tank right, we should be able to get one of those, and that's all I want.

But yeah, If Seattle and Quebec get gifted McDavid and Eichel, I will heartily despair.

 

[Jim Bob]

What has been the fastest turnaround from an expansion announcement to a team playing a game in the last 20 years or so?

 

[Djp]

It all depends on how they run the draft lottery. Last time they expanded, neither expansion team was given pick #1 or pick #2.

If we tank right, we should be able to get one of those, and that's all I want.

But yeah, If Seattle and Quebec get gifted McDavid and Eichel, I will heartily despair.

Previously I mentioned this was a real possibility.

they may not start a team until 16/17 but the expansion teams could start to draft in 2015.

It depends on when they announce it--not if.

Seattle and Quebec are the clear favorites.

 

[Beerz]

Expansion is stupid...

Seattle and Quebec should be getting teams that aren't viable in their current market

 

[Jim Bob]

Expansion is stupid...

Seattle and Quebec should be getting teams that aren't viable in their current market

It makes sense to even out all four divisions with 8 teams each and each conference with 16 teams.

 

[Jacob582]

Previously I mentioned this was a real possibility.

they may not start a team until 16/17 but the expansion teams could start to draft in 2015.

It depends on when they announce it--not if.

Seattle and Quebec are the clear favorites.

They can't draft into a team that doesn't play for the upcoming season. This would not be legal under the CBA or the PA would not allow it.

Think about a player's rights are drafted by a team with no possibility of employment as an 18 year old adult for a full year while other players have that opportunity/right.

 

[slip]

Expansion is stupid...

Seattle and Quebec should be getting teams that aren't viable in their current market

I agree. Further dilution of the product for the sake of short term financial gain will eventually come back and bite the league in the ass. With Euro leagues growing in wealth and relevance, the headwinds to prudent expansion are too great.

 

[Sakaarnis]

Was not sure where to put this, but anyway. It was reported that Zemgus participated in a practice today even though he was given a day off after Olympics. Screwed practice lines a bit, but shows that he´s a character guy. Not a top end talent skill wise, but a player who will give everything to be better. He´s already a fan favorite, but man... got to admire his passion for hockey.

 

[ADoubleD]

It makes sense to even out all four divisions with 8 teams each and each conference with 16 teams.

That is a stupid reason to expand. The talent level in the league will be diluted even more with two more teams, not to mention the potential of losing more Russians or Euros to the KHL. Expansion makes no sense especially when you consider the fact that Florida can barely get anyone to come to their games. If Seattle or Quebec want a team give them the Panthers. They have a pretty good group of young players, and have the potential to be a great team in a good hockey market. Get them out of Florida.

 

[haseoke39]

That is a stupid reason to expand. The talent level in the league will be diluted even more with two more teams, not to mention the potential of losing more Russians or Euros to the KHL. Expansion makes no sense especially when you consider the fact that Florida can barely get anyone to come to their games. If Seattle or Quebec want a team give them the Panthers. They have a pretty good group of young players, and have the potential to be a great team in a good hockey market. Get them out of Florida.

How does expansion increase the risk of losing players to the KHL?

 

[Husko]

How does expansion increase the risk of losing players to the KHL?

It doesn't. But going forward, as those leagues get stronger, it's an ever-increasing risk. His point is that the overall talent level in the league is going down, and we don't need to dilute it more by adding more teams.

 

[Jame]

It doesn't. But going forward, as those leagues get stronger, it's an ever-increasing risk. His point is that the overall talent level in the league is going down, and we don't need to dilute it more by adding more teams.

The overall talent level in the league is going up IMO.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

How does expansion increase the risk of losing players to the KHL?

If anything it increases the likelihood they stay because there's more cap to be spent on ****** Omarks err Europeans.

 

[joshjull]

The overall talent level in the league is going up IMO.

I agree. We just haven't seen it here yet

 

[ADoubleD]

How does expansion increase the risk of losing players to the KHL?

I never said it did. I meant that the two factors will contribute to diluting the talent level in the NHL.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

The overall talent level in the league is going up IMO.

Think of how talented the league is now that guys like Linus Omark can't even stick as a NHL regular. A decade ago that would have been unthinkable.

The talent level is at an all-time high and only growing. Especially given that the US is starting to consistently churn out a growing number of prospects. Fourth lines are better now than they have been in decades--it's part of the reason scoring continues to trend down. The gap between the top players and the bottom tier ones is smaller than it has ever been, so they aren't being dominated quite as bad, which means the top players aren't able to take advantage of mismatches quite like guys like Gretzky, for instance.

 

[Jim Bob]

Think of how talented the league is now that guys like Linus Omark can't even stick as a NHL regular. A decade ago that would have been unthinkable.

The talent level is at an all-time high and only growing. Especially given that the US is starting to consistently churn out a growing number of prospects. Fourth lines are better now than they have been in decades--it's part of the reason scoring continues to trend down. The gap between the top players and the bottom tier ones is smaller than it has ever been, so they aren't being dominated quite as bad, which means the top players aren't able to take advantage of mismatches quite like guys like Gretzky, for instance.

Omark wasn't a fit not due to a lack of talent, but rather the game today demands two way play more than ever before.

Gretzky and Lemieux are two guys that were never asked to play both sides of the puck the way players are today. And that was Omark's biggest issue.

 

[ADoubleD]

It doesn't. But going forward, as those leagues get stronger, it's an ever-increasing risk. His point is that the overall talent level in the league is going down, and we don't need to dilute it more by adding more teams.

The overall talent level in the league is going up IMO.

I'd agree with Jame that the overall talent level league wide is going up, but I don't see a need to dilute that talent pool by adding two more teams. If the talent is going up then why not let the product improve by keeping 30 teams, and weeding out weaker players. I'd rather see that happen than expanding and adding what about 44-46 new NHL jobs?

Some of those spots will most likely end up being filled by young guys who aren't quite ready yet, and a good chunk by plugs who probably shouldn't even be in the league. How is that good for the game?

 

[joshjull]

Omark wasn't a fit not due to a lack of talent, but rather the game today demands two way play more than ever before.

Gretzky and Lemieux are two guys that were never asked to play both sides of the puck the way players are today. And that was Omark's biggest issue.

Never thought I would see Gretzky and Lemiex mentioned in the same breath as Omark


There are still plenty of offense first or offense only players in the game. But they actually produce offense unlike Omark. THAT was actually Omark's biggest issue.

 

[Woodhouse]

Continue with the pro-tank talk in Part III. Take the league depth discussion to Around the NHL.