Confirmed with Link: Eichel + 3rd (23) to VGK for, Tuch, Krebs, 1st (22) 2nd(23)

[The Duck Knight]

Funny, that all was Wild Bill in year one. Since PDB messed with him and put him with new linemates before finally moving back he's lost a lot of that.

No year one Wild Bill was a statistical anomaly riding an unsustainable shooting percentage. PDB did not "ruin" Karlsson. If you want to claim that then where was 40 goal Karlsson with Gallant after year one?

Karlsson hasn't lost anything other than the horseshoe that was lodged in his backside that first year. He's one of the top two way centers in the league and is on a steal of a contract for what he brings.

In fact his even strength production rate, excluding the year he shot 23%, is remarkably consistent, no matter the coach. The miniscule decline in Karlsson's production directly correlates with the powerplay struggles.

 

[hangman005]

No year one Wild Bill was a statistical anomaly riding an unsustainable shooting percentage. PDB did not "ruin" Karlsson. If you want to claim that then where was 40 goal Karlsson with Gallant after year one?

Karlsson hasn't lost anything other than the horseshoe that was lodged in his backside that first year. He's one of the top two way centers in the league and is on a steal of a contract for what he brings.

I think as well Wild Bill not shooting us much after year one hasn't helped. It was frustrating to see him constantly pass on odd man rushes.

 

[The Duck Knight]

I think as well Wild Bill not shooting us much after year one hasn't helped. It was frustrating to see him constantly pass on odd man rushes.

His shot rate has been pretty consistent as a Knight. His goal production is a matter of shooting percentages. When the powerplay was good he was obviously getting better quality chances.

Karlsson Shots Per Game
17-18: 2.24
18-19: 2.06
19-20: 2.19
20-21: 1.98
21-22: 2.13

He could still stand to shoot more, but he's always been a pass first player since he was drafted. When he was in the Ducks system we never would have thought he'd even score 30 goals in a season.

 

[Haguerbomb]

 

[hangman005]

I'd hope for 90%-100% at his cap hit, because 30%-40% improved from not playing isn't a lot

 

[willy702]

No year one Wild Bill was a statistical anomaly riding an unsustainable shooting percentage. PDB did not "ruin" Karlsson. If you want to claim that then where was 40 goal Karlsson with Gallant after year one?

Karlsson hasn't lost anything other than the horseshoe that was lodged in his backside that first year. He's one of the top two way centers in the league and is on a steal of a contract for what he brings.

In fact his even strength production rate, excluding the year he shot 23%, is remarkably consistent, no matter the coach. The miniscule decline in Karlsson's production directly correlates with the powerplay struggles.

Go re-read the post the Sabres fan described what Eichel is capable of. It fit year one Wild Bill exactly. Steal the puck in his own end, lead a rush, then a wicked shot to beat a goalie. That is something we almost never see anymore. It wasn't about the production, it's about that kind of play.

 

[themilosh]

It's been their standard MO since getting to the Finals. Shiny new toy syndrome. Not sure how long of a window they actually have being this top heavy. That bottom six is going be mighty thin once everyone is back from IR. Smith leaving is not an if, but a when...now it's a question of who else follows him out the door.

I think VGK made a mistake in Eichel, as you guys are already strong through the middle, with balanced scoring and grit. Your window for SC finals to win is next two years with expiring contracts... but the major weakness is Goalie. Lehner not going to perform like MAF yr1..

Habs offer: Win now Group
Price (50% retained) + Gallagher (grit winger/leader) + Evans (solid 3/4C)

Receive from VGK: Win in 3 years group during rebuild
Lehner + Eichel

Only player that might be pissed would be Eichel - as it lengthens his playoff drought, but if I'm VGK I take this.

 

[Vegas07]

Eichel being 30-40 percent better makes zero sense.

 

[willy702]

Eichel being 30-40 percent better makes zero sense.

Better than when he was visibly playing injured maybe, but yeah this makes zero sense otherwise. He isn't becoming superhuman from a surgery, he's just trying to move past chronic pain.

 

[willy702]

I think VGK made a mistake in Eichel, as you guys are already strong through the middle, with balanced scoring and grit. Your window for SC finals to win is next two years with expiring contracts... but the major weakness is Goalie. Lehner not going to perform like MAF yr1..

Habs offer: Win now Group
Price (50% retained) + Gallagher (grit winger/leader) + Evans (solid 3/4C)

Receive from VGK: Win in 3 years group during rebuild
Lehner + Eichel

Only player that might be pissed would be Eichel - as it lengthens his playoff drought, but if I'm VGK I take this.

Yeah sure, never going to happen. The owner wants to win his Cup, but he wants to do it with superstars and having the biggest names he can get and he's aided in this by McPhee who shares the same philosophy.

 

[Super Cake]

I think VGK made a mistake in Eichel, as you guys are already strong through the middle, with balanced scoring and grit. Your window for SC finals to win is next two years with expiring contracts... but the major weakness is Goalie. Lehner not going to perform like MAF yr1..

Habs offer: Win now Group
Price (50% retained) + Gallagher (grit winger/leader) + Evans (solid 3/4C)

Receive from VGK: Win in 3 years group during rebuild
Lehner + Eichel

Only player that might be pissed would be Eichel - as it lengthens his playoff drought, but if I'm VGK I take this.

The Knights are absolutely not strong at center. The last two playoffs has showed that our center depth is not good enough.

 

[Vegas07]

How can we be strong in the middle if we don’t have a #1 center?

 

[themilosh]

How can we be strong in the middle if we don’t have a #1 center?

You'd be way stronger with Evans in bottom 6 - and more balanced.. Gallagher instantly strengthens middle6

Yeah sure, never going to happen. The owner wants to win his Cup, but he wants to do it with superstars and having the biggest names he can get and he's aided in this by McPhee who shares the same philosophy.

i'd argue Price's name much elite than Eichel.. this trade imo is a no brainer for VGK to win a Cup this year or next. It's short term only.

The Knights are absolutely not strong at center. The last two playoffs has showed that our center depth is not good enough.

b/c your D / goalie were suspect at best. Cause and effect... last thing to worry about is offence

How can we be strong in the middle if we don’t have a #1 center?

 

[Super Cake]

You'd be way stronger with Evans in bottom 6 - and more balanced.. Gallagher instantly strengthens middle6
i'd argue Price's name much elite than Eichel.. this trade imo is a no brainer for VGK to win a Cup this year or next. It's short term only.

b/c your D / goalie were suspect at best. Cause and effect... last thing to worry about is offence

What's the point in arguing this when it has next to no chance at happening.

 

[CupInSIX]

Eichel being 30-40 percent better makes zero sense.

Yeah it should be 60% minimum.

 

[Vegas07]

b/c your D / goalie were suspect at best. Cause and effect... last thing to worry about is offence

Dallas and Montreal shut down our offense the last 2 playoffs. That’s the biggest reason we lost IMO. And for long stretches, Vancouver and Minnesota shut down our offense too.

Our power play was nonexistent.

Sure we could score on the average or bad teams but that doesn’t get it done in the playoffs when your offense can disappear against the best teams.

 

[azvgk]

Assuming they find some way to deal with the cap, your centers with Eichel include Stephenson on the THIRD line and ROY and the fourth. With Dadanov as a third line winger. I'm still not sold on Lehner, but with a back end of Petro, Theo, Hague (really coming around), Whitecloud and more, Lehner might not have to be great.

It isn't happening anyway, but we have like zero need of Gallagher or Price. How's that working out for the Canadiens this year?

 

[The Duck Knight]

There really isn't any good solution to this cap hell, but the best thing I have is Pacioretty just because he seems incapable of being healthy at playoff time and he's the biggest cap hit which might give us the wiggle room to keep Smith. Keeping the Misfits together should be priority number one because I'm not sure we're as dominant if you take any one of them away. So for me there would be 2 options. Pacioretty + Carrier out. Or Dadonov + Mcnabb + Carrier out.

Sadly I still think Smith is most likely the casualty.

 

[CupInSIX]

There really isn't any good solution to this cap hell, but the best thing I have is Pacioretty just because he seems incapable of being healthy at playoff time and he's the biggest cap hit which might give us the wiggle room to keep Smith. Keeping the Misfits together should be priority number one because I'm not sure we're as dominant if you take any one of them away. So for me there would be 2 options. Pacioretty + Carrier out. Or Dadonov + Mcnabb out.

Sadly I still think Smith is most likely the casualty.

They can't take out both Tuch and Smith. Roy could step in at RW but after that, it gets pretty thin. And a 2nd line with both Marchessault and Dadonov seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[willy702]

If Price was so good, how come this was his first trip to the Finals? He's been healthier and had better teams around him and still couldn't get to the Finals in the past.

Moral of the story is thinking your goalie is the reason why you can't win the Cup is just delusional.

 

[The Duck Knight]

They can't take out both Tuch and Smith. Roy could step in at RW but after that, it gets pretty thin. And a 2nd line with both Marchessault and Dadonov seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

I agree with you. At least if you move Patches you have the option of Stephenson or Dadonov at LW1 with Eichel and Stone. I don't think anyone will take Dadonov so I think Smith is Mcrimmon's grand plan to solve this, which IMO is not the right move.

 

[LadyStanley]

Sadly I still think Smith is most likely the casualty.

Cap $$s seem to indicate that BOTH Smith and Theodore may have to be sacrificed to put Eichel into the lineup.

 

[The Duck Knight]

Cap $$s seem to indicate that BOTH Smith and Theodore may have to be sacrificed to put Eichel into the lineup.

They don't need to clear that much. It's going to be a right around 9 they need to clear. It'll be even less depending on Patrick. Waiving 2 bottom line forwards gets 1.5m. Carrier 1.4m. Then one of the 5m players. Then Mcnabb or Janmark. If Patrick can't stay healthy that could spare Janmark or Carrier.

There's no universe I can see them moving 2 5m+ players unless they're looking to add another piece. It just isn't necessary.

 

[CupInSIX]

I agree with you. At least if you move Patches you have the option of Stephenson or Dadonov at LW1 with Eichel and Stone. I don't think anyone will take Dadonov so I think Smith is Mcrimmon's grand plan to solve this, which IMO is not the right move.

I'd be all for
Dadonov Eichel Stone
Marchessault Karlsson Roy
Patches Stephenson ___

next season, but they have to go all-in this year. Taking out a couple of competent 2-way wingers seems like 2 steps forward, 1 step back.

One way to avoid losing a good player would be adding a LTIR contract like Shaw, or better yet Boychuk.

 

[themilosh]

Assuming they find some way to deal with the cap, your centers with Eichel include Stephenson on the THIRD line and ROY and the fourth. With Dadanov as a third line winger. I'm still not sold on Lehner, but with a back end of Petro, Theo, Hague (really coming around), Whitecloud and more, Lehner might not have to be great.

It isn't happening anyway, but we have like zero need of Gallagher or Price. How's that working out for the Canadiens this year?

both Price and Gallagher need a change of scenery and are very close with Patches. Just the life cycle in Pro Sports. Price has 1 or 2 more Playoff runs left in him... VGK is my Western team so I always support them, Im convinced Price is the true missing piece for a SC run, much like Roy was for Colorado back in the 90s. Very few teams can emulate what Detroit did with avg goal-tending (and even Chicago) and win a cup.
when teams have true Star Gs, suddenly the Offense doesn't grip their sticks as tightly.. Habs have zero scoring, and yet once the playoffs started their offense was loose.