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Post-Game Talk: Edmonton Oilers at New York Rangers - 11/11/17: Movin' On Up

Three stars vs. Edmonton - November 11, 2017

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chosen

chosen

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Kovalev was at times frustrating, but he put up over 1,000 points in his career.

Kreider's highest output to date is 53 points.

Kovalev got 53 points twice and eclipsed 53 points
upload_2017-11-12_9-51-56.png
times, and to me he was easily the 3rd most important player for the Rangers winning a Cup.
 
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chosen

chosen

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Bozle said:
I don't understand what makes him an underachiever.

Yes, he's big and fast, but is he a great passer? Does he have great hands? A great shot?

I'd say the answer to all of those is not really. Just because he's big and fast and physically dominant doesn't mean he should be a superstar. He's a good first line winger. I think it's more that your expectations are unrealistic.
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Oddly enough, he periodically is a great passer, displays great hands, and possesses a great shot.

Why are there games where he is head-and-shoulders the best player on the ice?

It's not like I'm the only one who notices this. The announcers on the national games mention it quite often.

I think it was in the last playoff game against Ottawa where we saw what I'm referring to.
 
kovazub94

kovazub94

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Pavel Buchnevich said:
We have McDonagh and Skjei, as well as Vesey on the PP. He's better than those guys on the PP.

PP2 should be McDonagh, Hayes, Miller, Nash and Desharnais. Hayes and Desharnais the half walls, Nash the front of the net, McDonagh and Miller the point. If another player is needed for the PP for some reason, we add Skjei as a second defensemen.
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I'd use Skjei on PP2 before McD. Otherwise yeah, even though DD should be the 13th F but this is not here nor there until Chytil comes up or a trade.
 
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kovazub94

kovazub94

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darko said:
Fire AV, he broke up KZB line. When will AV learn?

Next minute ... let's break up KZB line.
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I hear you and honestly I'd be afraid to break this line, especially knowing that they like to play together. However, the call to reunite KZB was to get Buch off of 4th line, really not much to do with Kreider.

On the other hand there are quite a few games where he is half a step behind reading off DJ Zibs and Buch. He could be better of with Miller and Zuke.
 
Tawnos

Tawnos

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YearOfTheCat said:
Since Jagr was here with Prucha.
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I think it's somewhat a myth as far as how effective that powerplay was. That season's PP was 18.9% for 8th. The next year was 18.9% for 8th. Last year's powerplay was 20.2% for 11th. I think our perception of how good they really were is skewed by how bad the powerplay was for the last few years of the Dark Ages.

Right now they sit was 25.8% for 3rd. The last time a Rangers team finished top-5 on the PP was 1998-99 when they finished 2nd at 20.4%. In fact, during the 90s, the Rangers finished 4, 2, 6, 17, 1, 5, 5, 1, 5, 2. Common denominator? Prime Brian Leetch. That one year the Rangers finished 17th was 1992-93. Leetch played 36 games...
 
Crease

Crease

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chosen said:
[T]o me he was easily the 3rd most important player for the Rangers winning a Cup.
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In no particular order, I have Leetch, Messier, Richter, Graves, and Zubov ahead of Kovalev in that run. Kovalev was great though, yeah. Top three on the team in points that spring.
 
SnowblindNYR

SnowblindNYR

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Tawnos said:
I think it's somewhat a myth as far as how effective that powerplay was. That season's PP was 18.9% for 8th. The next year was 18.9% for 8th. Last year's powerplay was 20.2% for 11th. I think our perception of how good they really were is skewed by how bad the powerplay was for the last few years of the Dark Ages.

Right now they sit was 25.8% for 3rd. The last time a Rangers team finished top-5 on the PP was 1998-99 when they finished 2nd at 20.4%. In fact, during the 90s, the Rangers finished 4, 2, 6, 17, 1, 5, 5, 1, 5, 2. Common denominator? Prime Brian Leetch. That one year the Rangers finished 17th was 1992-93. Leetch played 36 games...
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I noticed today briefly that PPs have become better lately. Any reason for that? I remembered that at some point in the 00-01 season we had the #1 PP in the league and then it slipped so I checked to see where it was by season's end (it was 11th). But it was like 17 or 18% which would be a lot worse than 11th last year. I wonder what changed. Because 18.9% also wouldn't be 8th anymore.
 
Tawnos

Tawnos

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chosen said:
Kovalev was at times frustrating, but he put up over 1,000 points in his career.

Kreider's highest output to date is 53 points.

Kovalev got 53 points twice and eclipsed 53 points View attachment 83221 times, and to me he was easily the 3rd most important player for the Rangers winning a Cup.
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None of which actually matters in terms of underachieving. Kovalev finished top 5 in scoring exactly once in his career. That's also the only season he finished top 10. The guy had the talent to win scoring titles.

Specifically, in terms of careers as Rangers, beyond their rookie seasons, Kovalev was 95th in scoring league-wide over 6 seasons. Kreider is 139 over 5 seasons (that becomes 112 if you eliminate 12-13 where he clearly wasn't ready for the NHL). Either way, their Rangers careers aren't all that dissimilar, but which of the two would you have expected to even be a top-50 scorer in the league?

Kovalev as a Ranger might be the single biggest disappointment in terms of individual performance in Rangers history and Kreider doesn't come close to comparing. I thought Kreider's ceiling was 30-30. Last year he was 28-25.
 
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Tawnos

Tawnos

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SnowblindNYR said:
I noticed today briefly that PPs have become better lately. Any reason for that? I remembered that at some point in the 00-01 season we had the #1 PP in the league and then it slipped so I checked to see where it was by season's end (it was 11th). But it was like 17 or 18% which would be a lot worse than 11th last year. I wonder what changed. Because 18.9% also wouldn't be 8th anymore.
Click to expand...

The skill level in the league is the highest it's ever been.
 

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6 in a row now, this is why I love hockey. Things change so fast.
Also why FO needs to keep calm and don't do anything stupid, minor adjustments sometimes make a big difference.

As for the 1st line and the 1st PP unit, i wouldnt touch that, no way.
The answer here is to mix and match the lines 2-4 and perhaps bring up Chytil. Ride the streak, if we cool down, that's when you really.mix it up if nessasary
 
Tawnos

Tawnos

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SnowblindNYR said:
So how come the scoring 5 on 5 doesn't reflect that? Easier to get into a defensive system? (I know the scoring now is high but it was last year too at this point and it regressed).
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Defensive systems are part of it. I would say the other part is that skill doesn't simply apply to offense. Defensive skill is also at a high point.
 

ManUtdTobbe

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4F 1D becoming more and more common probably has a pretty big impact on PP numbers in the last few years aswell.
 
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