News Article: Edmonton is at the top of list for No-Trade Destination

[The Big Unit]

Anyway... back on topic.

Arguing about the Islanders situation is on topic for a few reasons.

1. They used to be on this list too but suddenly they got good and they're not on the list anymore.

2. They're a team moving into a shiny new building in the heart of their city to replace the fossil they currently play in further out in no man's land.

3. They built mainly through the draft, developed their players and are now seeing some success.

We can go around in circles about the weather but we can't argue how teams that used to suck and weren't able to attract free agents are now becoming destinations?

 

[Replacement*]

They're an incredibly strong defensive group. They're not winning on offense but rather being responsible defensively and capitalizing on mistakes. If they want to make a deep run, they need another scoring forward or two but Capuano has them playing great defensive hockey. That's how you win these days.

Man, I love defensive hockey but tbh the way the Islanders play us I barely recognize it. For sure they haven't played very good games against the Oilers. I think it doesn't take much to be considered a good D team in the East. Basically not being horrible at it sets you apart from the curve.

Islanders looked to be playing looser than the Oilers in the tilts and give up a whole lot of space compared to even Calgary who are tight checking in comparison.

 

[Replacement*]

Have you looked at the NHL standings? 5th overall in the league.
Not a good team? Maybe you're suffering from heat stroke from the balmy temps outside today.....

EC easy pts easily obtained. Basically any half decent team could make a killing in the EC. Throw the Oil in the EC and we'd have 10-15 more pts. Jmo.

That and I don't put a lot of stock in regular season results. Simply no way Islanders will go far in the playoffs. just like Calgary won't in the West. I think the flames are actually a better club.

Hell the Ranger entirely unwrapped the Islanders just last week. Thought that was lol as well. Islanders are porous.

 

[The Big Unit]

Man, I love defensive hockey but tbh the way the Islanders play us I barely recognize it. For sure they haven't played very good games against the Oilers. I think it doesn't take much to be considered a good D team in the East. Basically not being horrible at it sets you apart from the curve.

Islanders looked to be playing looser than the Oilers in the tilts and give up a whole lot of space compared to even Calgary who are tight checking in comparison.

Hence the separation in points in the East. You have the top 7 which are all really close and then there's a big gap and then there's the rest. Here's the thing, the Islanders aren't a bubble playoff team but a strong candidate to win their division which means they stack up well against their immediate competition. Furthermore, they actually have a winning record vs the Western Conference 10-8. It doesn't blow me away but the Ducks are 12-9-2 vs the Eastern Conference so I'm not going to take anything away from the Isles here.

 

[Replacement*]

Hence the separation in points in the East. You have the top 7 which are all really close and then there's a big gap and then there's the rest. Here's the thing, the Islanders aren't a bubble playoff team but a strong candidate to win their division which means they stack up well against their immediate competition. Furthermore, they actually have a winning record vs the Western Conference 10-8. It doesn't blow me away but the Ducks are 12-9-2 vs the Eastern Conference so I'm not going to take anything away from the Isles here.

Islanders won't go past second round. Mark it down.

Nothing in the Islanders play is conducive to playoffs. As far as defensive play only 10 teams in the league have given up more goals. Islanders are subpar defensively. Despite having one of the better goalies around. I'm not entirely sure what they are good at. Overperforming presently is my call.

 

[McArthur]

But I honestly believe the attitude that these players "owe" us something, as you've argued... and that they owe it on the ice... and they owe it in the dressing room... and they owe it on the front page of the sports page... and they owe it when out for dinner with their family.

There has to be a limit to it... That's what makes them want to leave. And it would make me want to leave too. This "we made you and so you owe us" attitude is a particularly ugly part of the way treat athletes (and I'll stop there).

And IMO it is NOT just about the anonymity a hockey player gets when he crosses the border.

People here are happy for Tom Brady, even with his millions and his smile and his supermodel girlfriend. No Bostonian feels he owes us for giving a sixth round pick an audition.

Bad attitudes aside, its a small hockey world, and people talk. Most of these guys were raised together, live by each other in the summer, golf together... They all know who treats what players what ways, they know who gets the star treatment, who is thrown under the bus, who gets the best opportunities, and who just doesn't care because he's paid and won't play until he has to earn another contract. They talk. And all it takes is a Chris Pronger to say "That new reporter gave me std's..." followed up by a second rate Sheldon Souray to say "That place was the beginning of the end of my career, they made me play hurt"... Its the players that create the stigma of a franchise among the NHLPA. Don't get me wrong, management/ownership plays a huge part as to why, but there is no fooling the NHLPA. And until guys on our club earn some respect throughout the league, nothing is going to change. RNH was a last pick at the All star game, yet logged more minutes this season as a forward than anyone else that attended. Its going to take time. And Nelson seems to be fair with all of them. No special treatment, just a team guy, and a coach first. They are literally rebuilding the entire franchise, intangibles and all. might as well not have any resemblance of the past, yes that means Lowe, MacTavish, Buchberger, and Acton too. If you want league wide respect at this point, you fire all those guys and bring in Mike Babcock to GM your club. pay a fortune to put one of the hockey worlds most respected figures at the top of your ladder and give him full creative control with no interference from ownership.

 

[Gunnersaurus Rex]

Islanders won't go past second round. Mark it down.

Nothing in the Islanders play is conducive to playoffs. As far as defensive play only 10 teams in the league have given up more goals. Islanders are subpar defensively. Despite having one of the better goalies around. I'm not entirely sure what they are good at. Overperforming presently is my call.

Well, only 2 teams do....so...

...but they'll be playing those crappy eastern teams, so you never know....

 

[Tekneek]

As an outsider fan with a soft spot for Edmonton, not sure why you guys put so much effort into arguing about the weather. The majority of the league are Canadians, of those a significant amount are from Western Canada/Alberta, ergo they grew up with the Edmonton kind of weather. So having family still living there year around and having spent their childhood and teens in the same climate, why on earth would the winters be a sticking point? More to the point, they are on the road at least half the time of the season. [/I]

It has nothing to do with what they might be used to or even comfortable in. If you have a no trade/no movement clause, you have to actually populate that list with some cities. Look at all of the choices of destinations in the NHL with some objectivity. It is pretty obvious which ones go on the list right from the start, even without considering the quality of the hockey. Edmonton, in today's NHL, is always going to have to fight to stay off of that list by offering such compelling hockey that players would want to go there over sunnier destinations. I know there are many players, even those raised in western Canada, that really enjoy being able to wear shorts, t-shirts, and sandals outside during most of the year.

 

[KCC]

I think much of it has to do with them being bad for so long. Yeah I know it's common sense, but still -- If they became contenders, players would hop on the bandwagon and want to play. At least that's what I think.

No Canadian market is top 5 for anyone that great, lol.

Even Vancouver, the Canadian team with the most success, it's not like they've signed a ton of big UFAs. Several big players have looked off them to go elsewhere, the main reason they got Miller is because Miller's wife wanted badly to be on the West Coast (closer to LA) for her career and none of the California or Phoenix based teams had a goalie opening.

Miller also said that they fell in love with the city during the Olympics. Whether or not that was true who knows. But I'd bet a pretty penny that it has much of it to do with his wife.

 

[Gunnersaurus Rex]

NYI's should still suck. Also moving into Barclays which extremely sucks as a hockey venue in addition to a team being out of place. Like as in the Oilers playing in Red Deer in a facility not designed with hockey in mind.

not long ago you couldn't even get people to attend Islander games. Is attendance up now?

I don't think the Islanders are that good a team either. That org will still lurch along and wouldn't surprise me if it goes under.

Oh nuts. The Isle just beat the best team in the league, a western conference team at that, to move in to third overall. Can someone please call MacT and see if he can get some of their "smoke and mirrors" for next season. Clearly the Islanders are not that good........lol...

 

[Replacement*]

Oh nuts. The Isle just beat the best team in the league, a western conference team at that, to move in to third overall. Can someone please call MacT and see if he can get some of their "smoke and mirrors" for next season. Clearly the Islanders are not that good........lol...

Hard to figure. Its like Calgary to me. Teams play like crap against them in regular season.

Anyway I don't get a lot of Islanders games(least televisd team in the league along with florida) so people that pay for all the games would probably know what they are doing right better than me. But the prior reports that they are a great defensive club, as another poster mentioned, is not it at all. They give up a lot of goals. Somehow, and this is one of the biggest mysteries considering their lineup, they're about the highest scoring team in the league. Again I have no idea how with that lineup. This is not a lineup I would expect to be in topten goal scoring.

I still think in the Playoffs this little applecart folds. As it always does.

 

[bucks_oil]

Arguing about the Islanders situation is on topic for a few reasons.

.....

We can go around in circles about the weather but we can't argue how teams that used to suck and weren't able to attract free agents are now becoming destinations?

?!?!?

I didn't quote you or respond to you. My "back on topic" was just me closing the loop in reference to my own post to Replacement (immediately prior to yours) which was straying from the point.

 

[bucks_oil]

Bad attitudes aside, its a small hockey world, and people talk. Most of these guys were raised together, live by each other in the summer, golf together... They all know who treats what players what ways, they know who gets the star treatment, who is thrown under the bus, who gets the best opportunities, and who just doesn't care because he's paid and won't play until he has to earn another contract. They talk. And all it takes is a Chris Pronger to say "That new reporter gave me std's..." followed up by a second rate Sheldon Souray to say "That place was the beginning of the end of my career, they made me play hurt"... Its the players that create the stigma of a franchise among the NHLPA. Don't get me wrong, management/ownership plays a huge part as to why, but there is no fooling the NHLPA. And until guys on our club earn some respect throughout the league, nothing is going to change. RNH was a last pick at the All star game, yet logged more minutes this season as a forward than anyone else that attended. Its going to take time. And Nelson seems to be fair with all of them. No special treatment, just a team guy, and a coach first. They are literally rebuilding the entire franchise, intangibles and all. might as well not have any resemblance of the past, yes that means Lowe, MacTavish, Buchberger, and Acton too. If you want league wide respect at this point, you fire all those guys and bring in Mike Babcock to GM your club. pay a fortune to put one of the hockey worlds most respected figures at the top of your ladder and give him full creative control with no interference from ownership.

I think I agree with all of that. Certainly our team's old school attitude (which Lowe/MacT certainly inherited from Sather/Pocklington and a bygone era) does not help.

It is definitely a multi-factorial thing (and yeah... I put weather and proximity to mountains near the bottom of the list).

My point is that the fishbowl which exists in most/all Canadian cities is more than just our level of interest in hockey vs the relative anonymity of the US. You rarely hear of US basketball or football players moving to Canada to escape the limelight. I think it has to do with how we Canadians treat our rich, successful "heroes". We aren't like americans in that way... we don't celebrate their success, we expect them to pay us back for it.

 

[The Big Unit]

?!?!?

I didn't quote you or respond to you. My "back on topic" was just me closing the loop in reference to my own post to Replacement (immediately prior to yours) which was straying from the point.

My bad. I thought you were talking about how the overall discussion had moved away from your discussion with Replacement.

 

[The Big Unit]

Hard to figure. Its like Calgary to me. Teams play like crap against them in regular season.

Anyway I don't get a lot of Islanders games(least televisd team in the league along with florida) so people that pay for all the games would probably know what they are doing right better than me. But the prior reports that they are a great defensive club, as another poster mentioned, is not it at all. They give up a lot of goals. Somehow, and this is one of the biggest mysteries considering their lineup, they're about the highest scoring team in the league. Again I have no idea how with that lineup. This is not a lineup I would expect to be in topten goal scoring.

I still think in the Playoffs this little applecart folds. As it always does.

Go look at their team, they've got a long list of solid young players and could end up with four or five 20 goal scorers. Griffin Reinhart isn't even on the big club yet and they're a top team. They've got a solid defensive core and are one of the best 5 on 5 teams in the league. Furthermore, there's only like 7 minus players on the entire roster. They have depth and a balanced roster. It's their PK that's terrible and that's the reason for the high goals against. I'm not trying to be a statwatcher here but stats do tell you the story a lot of the time. Like dude, give some credit where it's due otherwise Jack Capuano is this season's Patrick Roy and deserves the Jack Adams.

 

[Raincouver]

I'm a little late to the party here...

But as a guy born and raised in Vancouver, who is a Canucks fan...

I freakin' love Edmonton.

I like the City. The people. The Economy. Every time I go I have a good time. I like the geography and the way they city is planned and mapped compared to here.

I like the trails and the housing prices too.

The only thing, that keeps me from moving there (I work for an Alberta-based employer) is the climate. I can handle the snow, I think, but -20, -30, etc, I don't know.

Now as far as free agents are concerned, we have to consider the life of a hockey player. Most of them grow up and play somewhere like Moose Jaw, Peterborough, Orsnkoldvik, Chicoutimi or Northern Minnesota. I don't think Edmonton would be a step down for them at all.

But when they move to Florida, or St. Louis, or Dallas or New York, meet an American wife, then suddenly the UFA decisions now become about the wife. This is why Luongo wanted back in Florida, and we know the Pronger Scenario.

I am the age of a lot of UFAs (early 30s) and am newly married (1 year) and I can tell you, the pressure to keep your wife happy comes into play. One of the reasons Martin Gelinas loved Alberta was because his wife had so much family there.



However...winning is a cure all.

Case in point...


Back in the early 90s of the NFL. There was a saying....that black guys would not go to Green Bay.


Then, after 8 years dominating the NFL with the Eagles, a guy named Reggie White game to the Packers.

Combined with Brett Favre, they went on to lead the Packers to two Super Bowls (1 win).


Green Bay hasn't had an issue attracting free agents since.

 

[Replacement*]

I

The only thing, that keeps me from moving there (I work for an Alberta-based employer) is the climate. I can handle the snow, I think, but -20, -30, etc, I don't know.



.

-20, -30 here is easy to deal with because you just can bundle up and not worry about it. Its a dry cold. Completely comfortable with the right clothing.

The weather that really makes people sick is when the temp bounces back and forth between just above 0 to -5 with higher humidity. Particularly if its windy. Because that's when the melts occur and its now known that bacteria survives in snow. Get days like that when its windy and humid and bacteria blowing around and I think that's when people get infected. Plus anybody that suffers from snow mold spores gets allergic reactions and bronchial irritation. -20 nothing hits you. I love that temperature. its the melting and freezing and not knowing what to wear I can't stand.

 

[Zihuatanejo]

-20, -30 here is easy to deal with because you just can bundle up and not worry about it. Its a dry cold. Completely comfortable with the right clothing.

The weather that really makes people sick is when the temp bounces back and forth between just above 0 to -5 with higher humidity. Particularly if its windy. Because that's when the melts occur and its now known that bacteria survives in snow. Get days like that when its windy and humid and bacteria blowing around and I think that's when people get infected. Plus anybody that suffers from snow mold spores gets allergic reactions and bronchial irritation. -20 nothing hits you. I love that temperature. its the melting and freezing and not knowing what to wear I can't stand.

Agreed. I can't stand it when the weather is all over the place, especially for driving and this year being pregnant during the winter I have had a lot of trouble navigating icy parking lots and sidewalks due to the melting and freezing and then rain and snow on top of it. Absolute nightmare. Give me -20 all year long until its time for spring and I'd be a happy camper.

 

[Oilslick941611]

Interesting and good post but since around 1993 if not earlier the NHLPA and its high priced help created the perspective that playing in Canada is unattractive (less $, less glamour) and got a little transfixed with southern bling and forgetting who they are. (Canadian mostly) I think part of this is hockey players wanting to be the same as basketball players which was a a raging movement along the time Gretz shifted south along with the NHL.

So its circular. Hockey players decide not to play here in Canada, as a result Canadian teams suck, then its perceived as even worse option because Canadian teams suck...

But again who created that but Canadian players deserting their country that borne and raised their hockey education and paid for all of it only for them to go elsewhere.

If this sounds nationalistic in scope how popular would it be if most US soccer players went up to play in Canada. Or if most English soccer players went to play elsewhere...haha

in most countries people complain about such decisions and its high time that Canadian fans do. We're getting shafted by the NHL and NHLPA. With not a SC in site for almost a Quarter Century.

ypu can argue until you are blue in the face but reality is Edmonton is an undesirable place to play and live. You point out all kinds of things to do in the winter... I can do 99% of them here in Ottawa, Skiing? check, Shoe shoeing? check, ice sculptures? check, 4 seasons? check, Family friendly amenities? check? History? check, beautiful countryside within an hours drive? check.

And guess what? Ottawa is on that list too. You're getting too emotional with your attachment to Edmonton. That attachment you have and feel with Edmonton is the same that someone else has with another city, Edmonton is not unique, Edmonton is not special and Edmonton is not desirable. Just accept that players don't want to play here (for the most part) and get on with it, cheer for the ones that do. These boards are insane with the hate that is spewed towards players and I bet that it doesn't just start and end on the boards, I'm willing to wager that it filters into the sports talk radio shows and water coolers around the city. That's a toxic environment. Winning won't help as much as everyone thinks either remember 06? the mass exodus of players we had? players couldn't wait to leave.

 

[Replacement*]

ypu can argue until you are blue in the face but reality is Edmonton is an undesirable place to play and live. You point out all kinds of things to do in the winter... I can do 99% of them here in Ottawa, Skiing? check, Shoe shoeing? check, ice sculptures? check, 4 seasons? check, Family friendly amenities? check? History? check, beautiful countryside within an hours drive? check.

And guess what? Ottawa is on that list too. You're getting too emotional with your attachment to Edmonton. That attachment you have and feel with Edmonton is the same that someone else has with another city, Edmonton is not unique, Edmonton is not special and Edmonton is not desirable. Just accept that players don't want to play here (for the most part) and get on with it, cheer for the ones that do. These boards are insane with the hate that is spewed towards players and I bet that it doesn't just start and end on the boards, I'm willing to wager that it filters into the sports talk radio shows and water coolers around the city. That's a toxic environment. Winning won't help as much as everyone thinks either remember 06? the mass exodus of players we had? players couldn't wait to leave.

In a sense you're stating that Canada, in general, is not unique. despite the world (existing mostly in crowded places) feeling that It is and with Billions of people likely wanting to move here if they could.

Canada is a wonderful place and among the best countries on Earth. Sorry if for some reason you can't see this. In that case you would be missing out on what makes this country great as much as the NHLPA are.

"Players couldn't wait to leave"? Pronger couldn't wait to leave, which set the house of cards tumbling because he was the key player and everybody knew it. Everybody knew the ride was over with him leaving. Thus an exodus.

But lets be clear here. This was NHLPA blueblood Chris Pronger with high society wife. He never had any affinity with Edmonton, small markets, and ironically he was adamant in his NHLPA rep capacity in stating that small market NHL clubs shouldn't exist. It was always strange, if not surreal, that Chris Pronger ever played here at all. He only did because the Blues couldn't pay him and in the cap era world most of the teams that had excess payroll space for such a contract were small market clubs which had spoken for payroll that was far less than the NHL's new imposed deflated cap.
It was always a shell game. Get the safe contract from a team that had ample cap space and then head for the hills ASAP. We were used.

 

[Replacement*]

Agreed. I can't stand it when the weather is all over the place, especially for driving and this year being pregnant during the winter I have had a lot of trouble navigating icy parking lots and sidewalks due to the melting and freezing and then rain and snow on top of it. Absolute nightmare. Give me -20 all year long until its time for spring and I'd be a happy camper.

Yep. Edmonton is definitely harder to do when we have the freeze/thaw cycles. Yesterday all of Edmonton was another skating rink. That stuff is hard to deal with but a very recent climatological experience here borne of climate change. 20yrs ago you would rarely see a weather event like this here. Now we get them every week or two. Its as if we suddenly have chinooks.

My preference is it staying well below zero all winter. That way all the river valley trails, walks, roads are doable and its the events like icestorms that always do the most to shut in people. Not the temps but the ice on every surface. Its dangerous out there at the moment.