Proposal: EDM - NYR

[Kaapo di tutti capi]

If (apart from the obvious 2) Turcotte, Byram, Dach, Cozens, Krebs, Zegras are all gone by the time we pick, I'd do it.

If one of those guys is there, no way.

Certainly an understandable position, but if the Rangers aren't getting one of those guys, why are they making the trade?

 

[Shootertooter]

conditionally disagree
If the pick is 5OA and Oil can come up with a nice enough sweetener, then I see a deal can be had.

Not sure they will go there.

I think with Hayes gone, there is no way the Rangers trade their #1 guy.
Your boy Boo isn't even close to being a capable short term fill in.
I don't think anyone in the whole organization touted for top 6 is capable at this point. Not even Chytil.

 

[Barnaby]

conditionally disagree
If the pick is 5OA and Oil can come up with a nice enough sweetener, then I see a deal can be had.

Not sure they will go there.

I can't. A 25 year old #1 center locked up to a VERY reasonable deal?

It would have to be a top 2 pick to consider... most likely 1st or an established young player. You cant trade Zibanejad and wind up with a Lias Andersson or Puljujarvi - it would be absolutely devastating to the franchise.

 

[One Winged Angel]

At this point, the only way I move Zibanejad at this draft is if one of the top-2 picks is coming back in return.

 

[DutchNYR]

Buchnevich has been our best player post-deadline, so no. I'd maybe do it for Tampa's 1st/2nd round pick.

 

[Shootertooter]

Kreider instead of Butcher, keep the third rounder.

Oilers #1 for Jets #1 and Kreider.

Kreider for the Oil pick if it is around 7 or 8.....I'd think about but no sure I would pull the trigger..............no chance the Jets first goes with Kreider.
That is just silly.

 

[bernmeister]

I think with Hayes gone, there is no way the Rangers trade their #1 guy.
Your boy Boo isn't even close to being a capable short term fill in.
I don't think anyone in the whole organization touted for top 6 is capable at this point. Not even Chytil.

Not surprisingly, we disagree, as is more often the case.

Hayes. Yes, he is gone FOR NOW. There is zero guarantee, esp as he is this very moment property of another club, for anyone to say anything official about the future until the season ends. However, as I speculate, there is a basis to believe he could return, taking a couple years less and a tad less $, in exchange for post career considerations. We have enuf at pivot in any case if he takes mo $ elsewhere, but I think it is a good bet he returns, unless GMJG gets greedy and squeezes him too hard. However, since KH has proven himself as to what he commands on a show me deal, and since it only costs NY a bit less than market on favorable term to do as I propose, and Hayes gets to comeback and play the hero, I see his return as not certain, but a reasonable + bet.

Nieves - Everyone is foolishly underrating my boy Boo, who is not getting the mins he deserves so Quinn can see and ascertain what he has. Boo actually is very talented at every other facet of the game besides scoring, and there is hope he can improve there. He has excellent build, could use an extra 3 or 4 pounds of muscle, but that is pushing it, already able to use his size and exceptional [not elite, but superior speed] skating to deliver a good game. His passes are silky smooth, and the setup winner he delivered the other nite vs Toronto was from behind the net, not a big whoop, but had to get around the mesh netting of the goal, which being very difficult IS a big deal.
Nieves is currently a 3C talent being wasted on 4C while we had to indulge Strome, before telling him if he stays, he has to be RW, not C, except in backup/emergency situation; and Namest., who has had a few goals but taken so, so many shots. I regret our holding out to move him as the other mins would have been better spent elsewhere, and the reduced depth would help fatigue the roster prompting an extra few losses, which could only help with our draft position. Nieves has potential 2C ability IF he learns to shoot. However, with the right complementary matching Ws of high enough calibre, Nieves can be a 1C. Kreider, and Zib, going nowhere now til post season, if anywhere at all, is that immediate scenario. As I have noted, regardless of where Zib is, Kravtsov will arrive and claim 1C. Which leads me to ...

Kravtsov - the real deal 1C, at least the physical gifts of Boo at min, if not superior, along with better vision, offensive playmaker skills, and scoring touch. If Zib is still here, Krav will push him to 1RW, which is where he should already be.

And finally, I disagree with your comment on Chytil, the kid is a rook and has learned steadily since day 1. There is no reason to not believe he will advance from middle 6 to a top line quality F. The only ? is where he fits, pivot or W, not based on his ability, but on team needs.

We have a real promising prospect in Barron Morgan or whatever his name is, he's 4 years away. And that does not count anyone else we add [perhaps Lettieri for Pitlick, a deal that saves Stars a few $ cap space].

The x factors are Howden, who I see we keep, needs to add muscle and develop, and is only 19, green, but we see he connects the dots and either he competes at pivot, or they try to use that superior speed as a Kreider lite LW. And...

Lias Andersson.
Giving him mins to grow only complicates pivot logjam. We need to repurpose him as early as possible, pref for RD assets.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Not surprisingly, we disagree, as is more often the case.

Hayes. Yes, he is gone FOR NOW. There is zero guarantee, esp as he is this very moment property of another club, for anyone to say anything official about the future until the season ends. However, as I speculate, there is a basis to believe he could return, taking a couple years less and a tad less $, in exchange for post career considerations. We have enuf at pivot in any case if he takes mo $ elsewhere, but I think it is a good bet he returns, unless GMJG gets greedy and squeezes him too hard. However, since KH has proven himself as to what he commands on a show me deal, and since it only costs NY a bit less than market on favorable term to do as I propose, and Hayes gets to comeback and play the hero, I see his return as not certain, but a reasonable + bet.

Nieves - Everyone is foolishly underrating my boy Boo, who is not getting the mins he deserves so Quinn can see and ascertain what he has. Boo actually is very talented at every other facet of the game besides scoring, and there is hope he can improve there. He has excellent build, could use an extra 3 or 4 pounds of muscle, but that is pushing it, already able to use his size and exceptional [not elite, but superior speed] skating to deliver a good game. His passes are silky smooth, and the setup winner he delivered the other nite vs Toronto was from behind the net, not a big whoop, but had to get around the mesh netting of the goal, which being very difficult IS a big deal.
Nieves is currently a 3C talent being wasted on 4C while we had to indulge Strome, before telling him if he stays, he has to be RW, not C, except in backup/emergency situation; and Namest., who has had a few goals but taken so, so many shots. I regret our holding out to move him as the other mins would have been better spent elsewhere, and the reduced depth would help fatigue the roster prompting an extra few losses, which could only help with our draft position. Nieves has potential 2C ability IF he learns to shoot. However, with the right complementary matching Ws of high enough calibre, Nieves can be a 1C. Kreider, and Zib, going nowhere now til post season, if anywhere at all, is that immediate scenario. As I have noted, regardless of where Zib is, Kravtsov will arrive and claim 1C. Which leads me to ...

Kravtsov - the real deal 1C, at least the physical gifts of Boo at min, if not superior, along with better vision, offensive playmaker skills, and scoring touch. If Zib is still here, Krav will push him to 1RW, which is where he should already be.

And finally, I disagree with your comment on Chytil, the kid is a rook and has learned steadily since day 1. There is no reason to not believe he will advance from middle 6 to a top line quality F. The only ? is where he fits, pivot or W, not based on his ability, but on team needs.

We have a real promising prospect in Barron Morgan or whatever his name is, he's 4 years away. And that does not count anyone else we add [perhaps Lettieri for Pitlick, a deal that saves Stars a few $ cap space].

The x factors are Howden, who I see we keep, needs to add muscle and develop, and is only 19, green, but we see he connects the dots and either he competes at pivot, or they try to use that superior speed as a Kreider lite LW. And...

Lias Andersson.
Giving him mins to grow only complicates pivot logjam. We need to repurpose him as early as possible, pref for RD assets.

There is so much wrong with this that I don’t even know where to begin.

 

[bernmeister]

I can't. A 25 year old #1 center locked up to a VERY reasonable deal?

It would have to be a top 2 pick to consider... most likely 1st or an established young player. You cant trade Zibanejad and wind up with a Lias Andersson or Puljujarvi - it would be absolutely devastating to the franchise.

At this point, the only way I move Zibanejad at this draft is if one of the top-2 picks is coming back in return.

Respectfully disagree as to only top 2 to consider.
remember, I said "with a nice enough sweetener"

that is not chump change, that is still a significant consideration.
we are in ballpark same area if you consider such a sweetener would push the 5OA to 2OA.

But going my way is more flexibile, since 1OA is not likely to move and 2OA is a push, we would likely have to add to zib to have a trade partner think about it.

Remember NOW is the time to plan so that when we have upcoming exp draft down the road, we have max flexibility about who we have to protect and slots available.

I agree we can't do Poolparty, Drouin, or other disasters. But I think this last draft, which seems to be 1st one GMJG truly had his hands unshackled without too much oversight from Slats, was one Gorton crushed. I think Lias was a safe bet pick they took before they knew they were getting Chytil and following draft Kravtsov. I would trust him to gamble correctly with the right degree of risk in most situations.

Also remember, if we have a 5OA, we may have legit trade ability adding other assets to move up or otherwise profit.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Respectfully disagree as to only top 2 to consider.
remember, I said "with a nice enough sweetener"

that is not chump change, that is still a significant consideration.
we are in ballpark same area if you consider such a sweetener would push the 5OA to 2OA.

But going my way is more flexibile, since 1OA is not likely to move and 2OA is a push, we would likely have to add to zib to have a trade partner think about it.

Remember NOW is the time to plan so that when we have upcoming exp draft down the road, we have max flexibility about who we have to protect and slots available.

I agree we can't do Poolparty, Drouin, or other disasters. But I think this last draft, which seems to be 1st one GMJG truly had his hands unshackled without too much oversight from Slats, was one Gorton crushed. I think Lias was a safe bet pick they took before they knew they were getting Chytil and following draft Kravtsov. I would trust him to gamble correctly with the right degree of risk in most situations.

Also remember, if we have a 5OA, we may have legit trade ability adding other assets to move up or otherwise profit.

The only thing I’d agree with you on is no Poolparty.

But Nieves isn’t a 3C as of right now. He’s a 4C and we hope he can be a good 3C going forward. You can’t give up on Lias right now, he’s way too young. He definitely wasn’t their guy in 2017, they wanted Pettersson and didn’t think Vancouver was gonna take him. It’s Morgan Barron and Howden isn’t a “Kreider-lite”, he shows nothing offensively. We have to hope he’s a decent bottom-6 forward before anything else.

 

[bernmeister]

The only thing I’d agree with you on is no Poolparty.

But Nieves isn’t a 3C as of right now. He’s a 4C and we hope he can be a good 3C going forward. You can’t give up on Lias right now, he’s way too young. He definitely wasn’t their guy in 2017, they wanted Pettersson and didn’t think Vancouver was gonna take him. It’s Morgan Barron and Howden isn’t a “Kreider-lite”, he shows nothing offensively. We have to hope he’s a decent bottom-6 forward before anything else.

Thanks for the feedback.
I hold fast to what I said about Nieves.
It is conceivable that if there is a glut of more talented guys at pivot, he may indeed be pushed down to 4C, however, some of those guys can play W well, and once mgmt figures that out, that may be the strategy. This of course does not address currently unknown variables about who we may acquire, obviously.

This also is in a vacuum.
As I have said, Kreider is the 1LW of this team. Whoever pivots him and the corresponding 1RW is by default the 1C.
Today, that best fit is Nieves.
Next season it will likely be Kravtsov.
But we shall see.

I concur on both not giving up on or giving away Andersson.
No argument we'd rather have Pettersson; unfortunately this was thought to be the best safe pick at time for a position of need at the time. That bed has been made.
However, giving the existing glut of pivots we have, we should move Andy pronto IF an acceptably high offer is on the table. He looked like a total bust earlier, but like Draisatil, he had a significant skating issue he had to overcome, and now like LeoDrai, has made the adjustment enough to say that while he is not a naturally gifted skater, he is fully functional as to that at NHL level.

Given all of that, now is the time to repurpose him for more useful assets.

As to Howden, there is no basis to believe he will turn into Kreider 2 power forward. But it is clear he has the wheels to rush down the left side. Although Howden and Nieves offer killer speed, I agree Howden must work on his offensive game, especially shooting/scoring, and should be on separate lines.
But my comment was that as a Kreider lite, emphasis lite, he would still attempt to hustle down the side board and start putting the puck in play [as opposed to someone with less speed being without that option, and required to drag it over the blue line into the attacking zone].

Just as I agree Andersson should not be given away, wouldn't you agree if there is enough on the table now for him, from Sabes or others, then we should move him?

 

[Shootertooter]

Not surprisingly, we disagree, as is more often the case.

Hayes. Yes, he is gone FOR NOW. There is zero guarantee, esp as he is this very moment property of another club, for anyone to say anything official about the future until the season ends. However, as I speculate, there is a basis to believe he could return, taking a couple years less and a tad less $, in exchange for post career considerations. We have enuf at pivot in any case if he takes mo $ elsewhere, but I think it is a good bet he returns, unless GMJG gets greedy and squeezes him too hard. However, since KH has proven himself as to what he commands on a show me deal, and since it only costs NY a bit less than market on favorable term to do as I propose, and Hayes gets to comeback and play the hero, I see his return as not certain, but a reasonable + bet.

Nieves - Everyone is foolishly underrating my boy Boo, who is not getting the mins he deserves so Quinn can see and ascertain what he has. Boo actually is very talented at every other facet of the game besides scoring, and there is hope he can improve there. He has excellent build, could use an extra 3 or 4 pounds of muscle, but that is pushing it, already able to use his size and exceptional [not elite, but superior speed] skating to deliver a good game. His passes are silky smooth, and the setup winner he delivered the other nite vs Toronto was from behind the net, not a big whoop, but had to get around the mesh netting of the goal, which being very difficult IS a big deal.
Nieves is currently a 3C talent being wasted on 4C while we had to indulge Strome, before telling him if he stays, he has to be RW, not C, except in backup/emergency situation; and Namest., who has had a few goals but taken so, so many shots. I regret our holding out to move him as the other mins would have been better spent elsewhere, and the reduced depth would help fatigue the roster prompting an extra few losses, which could only help with our draft position. Nieves has potential 2C ability IF he learns to shoot. However, with the right complementary matching Ws of high enough calibre, Nieves can be a 1C. Kreider, and Zib, going nowhere now til post season, if anywhere at all, is that immediate scenario. As I have noted, regardless of where Zib is, Kravtsov will arrive and claim 1C. Which leads me to ...

Kravtsov - the real deal 1C, at least the physical gifts of Boo at min, if not superior, along with better vision, offensive playmaker skills, and scoring touch. If Zib is still here, Krav will push him to 1RW, which is where he should already be.

And finally, I disagree with your comment on Chytil, the kid is a rook and has learned steadily since day 1. There is no reason to not believe he will advance from middle 6 to a top line quality F. The only ? is where he fits, pivot or W, not based on his ability, but on team needs.

We have a real promising prospect in Barron Morgan or whatever his name is, he's 4 years away. And that does not count anyone else we add [perhaps Lettieri for Pitlick, a deal that saves Stars a few $ cap space].

The x factors are Howden, who I see we keep, needs to add muscle and develop, and is only 19, green, but we see he connects the dots and either he competes at pivot, or they try to use that superior speed as a Kreider lite LW. And...

Lias Andersson.
Giving him mins to grow only complicates pivot logjam. We need to repurpose him as early as possible, pref for RD assets.

Boo is a 4C.....that is what he is. Only you have valued him any higher. But at least you are off your synergy bullsh*t. He is not a 2C either. He is a 4C and very likely will be in the AHL once other, more promising, players are ready. I like his effort but a 4C does not succeed in a 2C spot for long. You've gone from him being the next 1C, to 2C and now to 3C playing the 4C position. Put it to bed, you were wrong. He isn't holding it down till Kravtsov.
He is a 4C player who will become AHL fodder once this team sorts its personnel out.

I kind of think that there is a reason Chytil is playing the wing despite this being a season where Quinn could put kids in spots to help with their transition to the NHL and to give them experience and confidence. That he has been moved to wing for most of the season is rather disturbing. He might eventually develop into a 1 or 2 C and I hope he does but he is not close to that right now. And THAT is what I was getting at.

Andersson........I hope he can play middle 2/3C eventually and Howden needs to find his defensive game a bit more consistently. But those are your 4C's moving forward......there is no room for Boo outside of bering an injury call up with those guys ahead of him and with the question marks on those guys, it would be absolutely silly to move Zib. He isn't going anywhere.

Again, Kravtsov is not a true C despite whatever someone on the NYR board said or what he did at the World Champs in 6 games. He is listed as a winger, actually plays wing in the KHL and was drafted as such considering NY lacks any wing depth. He is not expected to come in and be the #1. He is not a real deal #1C, you have no clue what you are talking about and I am inclined to believe that unless you can provide some form of factual basis for why you insist he is the 1C of the future and simply because someone on the NYR forum said he can play center, is not really a valid reason for you to be hellbent upon it. That person has not come here to support anything you have said. The last time we had this discussion it was clear you had very little knowledge about Kravtsov and it seems nothing has changed since. Wishful thinking but again, you are showing that your wants and valuations have no real factual basis nor do they jive with team needs. If Chytil is not already playing C, there is no way in Hades Kravtsov comes in here to do that as a 1C. The fact that you are comparing Nieves to Kravtsov in any way makes me wonder if you have actually seen the guy play. Physically they are nothing alike, Boo outweighs Vitali by 45lbs.

 

[One Winged Angel]

This also is in a vacuum.
As I have said, Kreider is the 1LW of this team. Whoever pivots him and the corresponding 1RW is by default the 1C.
Today, that best fit is Nieves.
Next season it will likely be Kravtsov.
But we shall see.

Nieves isn’t a fit in the top-6 at all. You need to stop this madness. You’re the only one who believes this. He literally does not have the talent or hockey sense to be that.

Just as I agree Andersson should not be given away, wouldn't you agree if there is enough on the table now for him, from Sabes or others, then we should move him?

Anyone could be available for the right deal except Zibanejad.

 

[bernmeister]

Boo is a 4C.....that is what he is. Only you have valued him any higher. But at least you are off your synergy bullsh*t. He is not a 2C either. He is a 4C and very likely will be in the AHL once other, more promising, players are ready. I like his effort but a 4C does not succeed in a 2C spot for long. You've gone from him being the next 1C, to 2C and now to 3C playing the 4C position. Put it to bed, you were wrong. He isn't holding it down till Kravtsov.
He is a 4C player who will become AHL fodder once this team sorts its personnel out.

I kind of think that there is a reason Chytil is playing the wing despite this being a season where Quinn could put kids in spots to help with their transition to the NHL and to give them experience and confidence. That he has been moved to wing for most of the season is rather disturbing. He might eventually develop into a 1 or 2 C and I hope he does but he is not close to that right now. And THAT is what I was getting at.

Andersson........I hope he can play middle 2/3C eventually and Howden needs to find his defensive game a bit more consistently. But those are your 4C's moving forward......there is no room for Boo outside of bering an injury call up with those guys ahead of him and with the question marks on those guys, it would be absolutely silly to move Zib. He isn't going anywhere.

Again, Kravtsov is not a true C despite whatever someone on the NYR board said or what he did at the World Champs in 6 games. He is listed as a winger, actually plays wing in the KHL and was drafted as such considering NY lacks any wing depth. He is not expected to come in and be the #1. He is not a real deal #1C, you have no clue what you are talking about and I am inclined to believe that unless you can provide some form of factual basis for why you insist he is the 1C of the future and simply because someone on the NYR forum said he can play center, is not really a valid reason for you to be hellbent upon it. That person has not come here to support anything you have said. The last time we had this discussion it was clear you had very little knowledge about Kravtsov and it seems nothing has changed since. Wishful thinking but again, you are showing that your wants and valuations have no real factual basis nor do they jive with team needs. If Chytil is not already playing C, there is no way in Hades Kravtsov comes in here to do that as a 1C. The fact that you are comparing Nieves to Kravtsov in any way makes me wonder if you have actually seen the guy play. Physically they are nothing alike, Boo outweighs Vitali by 45lbs.

I'm not off the synergy kick. I clearly maintained he should be IC betw Kreider at 1LW and the correct 1RW, currently Zib.

You are wrong about Boo. He has enough talent and gifts to perform as I have indicated, needing only to up his scoring skills. Given that he has been forced to 4th line almost exclusively with only a handful of minutes, if that at most, for top line talent, and that even being at a busted end of shift and not by design as I required for my experiment, I think his +/- is significant.
Time will tell, but IMO you will be proven wrong IF they give Nieves the chance I have insisted on. Right now, they are still trying to see what they have in and where they go with Namest., Strome, Howden. Right now Nieves is better than any of those 4. Yeah, I said that. Howden may be able to eclipse Boo if his offense can improve more/faster. I see Strome has upside also, but right now, Nieves other than offense is better all around. Namest should not have been dealt for Miller except that TB prob insisted and we had to finish the McD deal. Given that, should have been moved.

Krav is gonna take 1C job, watch, you heard it here first. Small chance he prefers W and is more useful there, but is a lefty shot and I'm assuming we may put Chytil at LW.

Andersson needs to be repurposed. Period.

Zib stays unless it is a godfather offer. But he slides to 1RW as already should have been the case.

keeping this pertinent to the thread, I reiterate that I don't expect Oil can cough up enough in desired currency to make that happen for NYR.

 

[bernmeister]

Nieves isn’t a fit in the top-6 at all. You need to stop this madness. You’re the only one who believes this. He literally does not have the talent or hockey sense to be that.....

We disagree.
Won't be the first or last time.
Nieves gets what he can out of his Ws. MacLeod etc doesn't cut it. He opened eyes briefly last year having a good game or 2 with Buch, then got pushed out by vet favoring AV.
Let my critics just stand down and support my call for the experiment as I designed and indicated. IF it turns out I'm wrong, then and in that event, I'll take my lumps. Until that time, I will remain the voice of creativity and outside the box initiative where same can be applied, and this is that.

Anyone could be available for the right deal except Zibanejad.

I would not exclude Zib. He's all that and a bag of chips, but he isn't McDavid, for example.

Setting aside the issue of the NMC, which IMO should never be permitted again for anyone, ever [only extensive NTCs], that is a relatively small risk but it is avoidable if the return is enough.

Remember, we had no reason to think Chris Drury, a stud if there ever was one, would go down so fast with injury. Not pretty.

And again I'm optimistic about F generally and Gs for sure, also LD. We see cavalry down the road on RD, but that is way down. Moving Zib and Andersson for help in those areas would be huge, esp if we get Panarin for help on offense.

 

[Shootertooter]

I'm not off the synergy kick. I clearly maintained he should be IC betw Kreider at 1LW and the correct 1RW, currently Zib.

You are wrong about Boo. He has enough talent and gifts to perform as I have indicated, needing only to up his scoring skills. Given that he has been forced to 4th line almost exclusively with only a handful of minutes, if that at most, for top line talent, and that even being at a busted end of shift and not by design as I required for my experiment, I think his +/- is significant.
Time will tell, but IMO you will be proven wrong IF they give Nieves the chance I have insisted on. Right now, they are still trying to see what they have in and where they go with Namest., Strome, Howden. Right now Nieves is better than any of those 4. Yeah, I said that. Howden may be able to eclipse Boo if his offense can improve more/faster. I see Strome has upside also, but right now, Nieves other than offense is better all around. Namest should not have been dealt for Miller except that TB prob insisted and we had to finish the McD deal. Given that, should have been moved.

Krav is gonna take 1C job, watch, you heard it here first. Small chance he prefers W and is more useful there, but is a lefty shot and I'm assuming we may put Chytil at LW.

Andersson needs to be repurposed. Period.

Zib stays unless it is a godfather offer. But he slides to 1RW as already should have been the case.

keeping this pertinent to the thread, I reiterate that I don't expect Oil can cough up enough in desired currency to make that happen for NYR.

No, you are wrong about Boo until you are proven right. He's just a 4C until then. Quinn seems to agree to that as well. If you make a claim based on your own wild opinion......nobody but you will be wrong until it actually happens. The fact that Boo will never be the Rangers #1C for anything more than an emergency shift isn't crazy thinking. The guy does not have the skill to be that. Having some speed is not enough man. Only you don't see it.

You haven't backed anything up about Kravtsov. The guy is not a regular center. I don't expect him to be a regular center in the NHL let alone the Rangers #1. It is clear you know very little about him as you admitted the last time we talked about this. Stop making adamant points about things you obviously know nothing about.

Strome has been a Rangers bright spot......I'd suffice to say his game is a lot different than Nieves but as far as scoring goes, he's been better than Boo.

 

[One Winged Angel]

We disagree.
Won't be the first or last time.
Nieves gets what he can out of his Ws. MacLeod etc doesn't cut it. He opened eyes briefly last year having a good game or 2 with Buch, then got pushed out by vet favoring AV.
Let my critics just stand down and support my call for the experiment as I designed and indicated. IF it turns out I'm wrong, then and in that event, I'll take my lumps. Until that time, I will remain the voice of creativity and outside the box initiative where same can be applied, and this is that.


I would not exclude Zib. He's all that and a bag of chips, but he isn't McDavid, for example.

Setting aside the issue of the NMC, which IMO should never be permitted again for anyone, ever [only extensive NTCs], that is a relatively small risk but it is avoidable if the return is enough.

Remember, we had no reason to think Chris Drury, a stud if there ever was one, would go down so fast with injury. Not pretty.

And again I'm optimistic about F generally and Gs for sure, also LD. We see cavalry down the road on RD, but that is way down. Moving Zib and Andersson for help in those areas would be huge, esp if we get Panarin for help on offense.

No, you ARE wrong about Nieves. He’s not a even a 3rd line center right now. Literally no one other than believes Nieves is anything more than a fringe NHL’er. Not anyone else on here and definitely not Quinn either.

Moving Zibanejad is absolutely asinine unless you get McDavid or another elite young center back and that’s not happening. It leaves this team with a hole at center. Nieves is not that answer.

I can’t even honestly believe that you believe this garbage about Nieves. Just when I think I’ve seen it all, you leave me absolutely perplexed.

 

[bernmeister]

No, you are wrong about Boo until you are proven right. ...
You haven't backed anything up about Kravtsov. ...
Strome has been a Rangers bright spot......I'd suffice to say his game is a lot different than Nieves but as far as scoring goes, he's been better than Boo.

No, I am not actually wrong until that is proven. Until then, it is merely unproven on both sides. I expect Kravtsov to make everything moot next season, but if for some reason there is a basis to test my theory as I described, we will see then.

You are entitled to your own opinion, not to say statements that are not facts are facts.
It is my opinion that Nieves is a 3C currently w/2C potential, if he can up his offensive game with better shooting. It is not in dispute that he already evidences better skating, passing, defense etc than others.
I have also postulated that IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF he is placed in a manufactured scenario with 2 Ws most likely to obtain best results, chemistry MAY kick in, and IF lightning strikes, you will see him function as a 1C with the correct 1W talents.
Unless and until he gets this chance, with some chance to work with Kreider to get familiarity so they hit the ground running, no one can say definitively the experiment will fail, and that includes you.

Again, I throw out the gauntlet.
Wanna shut me up? Have the experiment run as I said, even if it was not to the optimal conditions I specified, for the balance of the year. A decent sample size, enuf mins, enuf shifts, enuf games.
If terrif results do not follow, I will address that.
Until then, stop overreaching, you are not entitled to claim victory until the experiment takes place substantially, and only then if it fails.

Kravtsov - played pivot, and you refuse to admit he did so well.
THAT is the fact.
Not your insistence for some reason that he must, and can only be a W for us.

Strome does have a better offensive game than Nieves. However, Nieves has a better skill set otherwise. Also, if you are gonna be fair, look at, besides Boo returning from concussion, that he has pretty much played 4th line with, to large extent, the likes of McLeod. Strome has gotten minimal 4th line time, some 1st line time, and mostly middle 6 duty.

 

[Barnaby]

I'd probably package Georgiev and Buchnevich for their 1st rounder assuming it's in the neighborhood of 10. I'd also take their 2020 instead if they prefer. I doubt Edmonton would be all that interested though.

 

[bernmeister]

No, you ARE wrong about Nieves. He’s not a even a 3rd line center right now. Literally no one other than believes Nieves is anything more than a fringe NHL’er. Not anyone else on here and definitely not Quinn either.
.... Nieves is not that answer. ....

When Kreider was first drafted, I was the lead voice advocating, not so fast, we have something here.

After Stepan's first year, into his 2nd, I could see he was gonna plateau, and I was right that we should have moved him earlier to get best return. We were insanely lucky the 'yotes bailed us out.

I respect your right to disagree, and more often than not, your opinion itself.

But I hold fast here, for the rationale explained above.

Again, keeping this with the thread topic, I doubt Oil pony up for Zib, but if we don't get a Parayko now, I think he helps us get 2 or 3 good shots at the getting the next Para.

And you have to think WAY ahead for max flexibility of the exp draft.
We keep Zib UNLESS the offer is truly substantial.

 

[780il]

Kreider for the Oil pick if it is around 7 or 8.....I'd think about but no sure I would pull the trigger..............no chance the Jets first goes with Kreider.
That is just silly.

Not even a consideration

Not trading a top 8 pick for a 28 year old 50 point scorer that's 1 year from UFA

 

[Barnaby]

Not even a consideration

Not trading a top 8 pick for a 28 year old 50 point scorer that's 1 year from UFA

Kreider is worth a 1st... to a team like Boston perhaps that would likely compete next season, have a pick in the 20's, and may very well be able to resign him.

Edmonton trading a 1st for Kreider doesn't make much sense.

 

[780il]

Kreider is worth a 1st... to a team like Boston perhaps that would likely compete next season, have a pick in the 20's, and may very well be able to resign him.

Edmonton trading a 1st for Kreider doesn't make much sense.

Agreed.

He's very much worth a late 1st to a contending team. Is he worth our 1st to us? Absolutely not.

 

[bernmeister]

He's worth more than a late 1st.
But while he'd be a fabulous indulgence to pair w/McD, it would be too expensive for EDM; the timing is bad.

He's mostly to remain a Ranger, which is fine with me.

I think the Avs, who have already taken their lumps in recent years and can go the asset well now, could make a serious offer, and it would be interesting to see Kreider-MacKinnon bookends.

While that is an interesting parallel to the Oil, that is for another thread, not this one.

 

[Barnaby]

He's worth more than a late 1st.
But while he'd be a fabulous indulgence to pair w/McD, it would be too expensive for EDM; the timing is bad.

He's mostly to remain a Ranger, which is fine with me.

I think the Avs, who have already taken their lumps in recent years and can go the asset well now, could make a serious offer, and it would be interesting to see Kreider-MacKinnon bookends.

While that is an interesting parallel to the Oil, that is for another thread, not this one.

I agree that Kreider is worth more than a late first... probably something roughly equivalent to what the Rangers received for Hayes. It could be a bit more or a bit less depending on the market, and a teams desire to extend him.

I was just stating this hypothetical Kreider to Edmonton deal doesn't make much sense for Edmonton.