GDT: ECQF Game 5 | Hurricanes (Smackdown) vs Islanders (Raw), 7PM | Is this when the Islanders tap out?

[Daeavorn]

I don’t think it’s an overreaction for Necas, because again, he’s only got 2 goals in his last 19 games.

Svech went down and Necas disappeared right along with him.

I think Svech drives a ton of play and now that's hes out we can see how truly valuable he is to our team.

Necas may be more valuable as a trade piece, especially if we could move him to potentially get Pettersson.

I dont think Van will ever trade him though.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Dude had a bad game while we are missing 3 of our top 6.... whoop de do Necas hasn't hit his ceiling he was our points leader this year and took huge strides, yes he is better when Svechnikov is out there and it probably is because he doesn't feel like he has to do everything.... He and Svech are great Line mates on the W I hope he gets an extended this offseason because if he takes anther step foward next season we probably can't afford him.

Some people need to level there expectations to a realistic level this post season with all of the injuries we are playing with house money in the playoffs there should be no expectations.

I think it’s perfectly reasonable to expect your regular season points leader to have more than zero points at even strength and not be directly at fault for several of goals the opponent has scored.

 

[Chrispy]

Two more thoughts.

1) I tuned in to the National Broadcast at first. I couldn't find the Canes broadcast. Then, I realized that I had actually tuned in to the Isles broadcast. They were celebrating the Isles getting the puck into our zone, getting shots off, and pretty much were only talking about Islander players. So I switched to the other option. Once I did that, I realized that no, I was actually listening to the national broadcast. They were just so one-sided in their commentary. I found the actual Islanders broadcast to be exactly the same as the national broadcast. Weird.

2) We are indeed in overreaction territory for one bad Necas game, but truth be told he hasn't been very good these playoffs. Maybe he'll take off if we make it to round 2 and play a more open style against the Rangers or Devils. But if he doesn't, it's worth looking for a trade, perhaps. I just don't know if the sum-of-his-parts is a positive contribution on this squad. He hurts us hugely with his turnovers and his defensive play is spotty. His offensive play if he isn't next to Aho or Svechnikov is not inspiring confidence. I think he plays great on skill lines but in the playoffs he doesn't have a strong game. Think Panarin for most of the series against us last year, but without as much skill.

I just think he could be an optimal trade candidate because his value has still rebounded, probably, in perception around the league. He's 24, has RFA rights when his deal expires, is on a cheap $3M salary next year, and just scored 71 points, leading the team. Imagine what another team might pay for him. It would be moneyball to parlay him into a really good player who plays a style of game that fits Rod's system. I could see us trading him for Travis Konecny, for example. Or he could be part of the package for Elias Pettersen. Or maybe Jersey can't work it out with Jesper Bratt. Or maybe for Ehlers or Kyle Connor. There could be a one-for-one swap that makes sense for both teams. I could see a cap team paying a killing for a young first line forward making $3M. Maybe we get a better player back who is at a higher salary or a little older.

I could see the same logic with trading one of Pesce or Skjei this summer, while their value is high. Hell, Pesce at a 50% retention is a cheat code for one season.

I understand the Necas argument. There could be a very specific type of deal (see: Hamilton) where the Borg considers moving him. But the acquired played needs to be signed for a few more years to make it worthwhile.

Pesce at 50% may be a cheat code. But that's a move for a team in a win-now scenario, and what Carolina would want back will be untouchable for a team in a win-now scenario. For instance, Toronto would love to land Pesce. But is Toronto giving up Nylander for him when so much of their core comes up as UFA in 2024 or 2025?

 

[Summer Rose]

Apparently I drank a lot of wine last night, spam posted this thread, and started crying because we didn't clinch the series.

Just another normal night of hockey?

 

[Blueline Bomber]

This feels like it is starting to be relevant again.

 

[tarheelhockey]

IFor instance, Toronto would love to land Pesce. But is Toronto giving up Nylander for him when so much of their core comes up as UFA in 2024 or 2025?

One year of Pesce isn't remotely close to a reasonable offer for Nylander, so it's a moot point.

 

[Chrispy]

One year of Pesce isn't remotely close to a reasonable offer for Nylander, so it's a moot point.

One year of Pesce for one year of Nylander. And Toronto gains a fair amount of cap if Carolina retains.

But the point is what is Toronto willing to give up that makes Carolina more likely to win next year by trading Pesce?

And if not Toronto, who is giving up that piece for Pesce when he is one year away from UFA?

I think we are arguing the same side of this: there isn't a deal involving Pesce that makes Carolina better next year. And trying to build long-term doesn't make sense this off-season until at least Aho is signed, preferably multiple players.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Apparently I drank a lot of wine last night, spam posted this thread, and started crying because we didn't clinch the series.

Just another normal night of hockey?

Certainly a normal night in a GDT.

 

[tarheelhockey]

One year of Pesce for one year of Nylander. And Toronto gains a fair amount of cap if Carolina retains.

But the point is what is Toronto willing to give up that makes Carolina more likely to win next year by trading Pesce?

And if not Toronto, who is giving up that piece for Pesce when he is one year away from UFA?

I think we are arguing the same side of this: there isn't a deal involving Pesce that makes Carolina better next year. And trying to build long-term doesn't make sense this off-season until at least Aho is signed, preferably multiple players.

Nobody is giving up a 40-goal scorer for Pesce, not even on mutually expiring contracts, not even with retention. This isn't a cap dump situation, Nylander is a Svechnikov-level scorer these days. We wouldn't trade Svech before the final year of his contract for a B-level defenseman just because the other team offered to retain.

The one thing that might have made such a thing semi-possible would be a god awful playoff performance. Nylander has 7 points in 4 games so far. We would be adding significantly to Pesce to get him. And frankly, Pesce isn't helping our cause with the way he's looking lately.

 

[The Faulker 27]

I don’t agree with this assessment.

There have been a handful of legitimately lazy/boneheaded mistakes, like the casual turnover on the first goal last night. But the compete level has been consistently high in this series. Coasting around looking lost, and failing to find a viable play against a tight defense, are two different things.

No our 4th line should not be our best line, but our top 6 currently stocked with 4th liners. We are performing like a ~8th seed team because that’s the level of talent on the ice post-injuries.

To me the much bigger concern is the performance of our second-pair D, who have been struggling for quite some time now. Even if we play well as a whole, consistent **** ups and lack of production from that pair is enough to keep the game close enough to lose.

Pesce looks lost at times lately, and flat out gassed. I haven't really noticed Skjei but that's probably not a good thing.

 

[Chrispy]

Nobody is giving up a 40-goal scorer for Pesce, not even on mutually expiring contracts, not even with retention. This isn't a cap dump situation, Nylander is a Svechnikov-level scorer these days. We wouldn't trade Svech before the final year of his contract for a B-level defenseman just because the other team offered to retain.

The one thing that might have made such a thing semi-possible would be a god awful playoff performance. Nylander has 7 points in 4 games so far. We would be adding significantly to Pesce to get him. And frankly, Pesce isn't helping our cause with the way he's looking lately.

Then trading Pesce isn't going to make this team better and they should ride out that contract next year.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Can I ask an honest question to everyone here?

Is anyone else having trouble caring all that much about this series? (At least when compared to previous years?)

I don't know if it's that we're now an annual playoff team so the playoffs feel less special, or if it's that after Svech went down (and TT as well), the Cup seemed like such a slim chance that I don't really expect much (especially if the Rangers win, that series would feel like a foregone conclusion before it starts). But after yesterday's loss I was like "welp, that's a bummer." And that was kind of it. If we give up the 3-1 series lead, I have a feeling I'll be saying "welp, that's a bummer", and that's kind of it, too.

I don't know if this is a "me" problem and just has to do with a crisis of my own personal fandom (or perhaps personal maturation that my entire life and mood isn't being oriented around a sports team that I like, depends how you look at it), or if there's something about this team and this season that is causing that type of detachment in the fans in general.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Can I ask an honest question to everyone here?

Is anyone else having trouble caring all that much about this series? (At least when compared to previous years?)

I don't know if it's that we're now an annual playoff team so the playoffs feel less special, or if it's that after Svech went down (and TT as well), the Cup seemed like such a slim chance that I don't really expect much (especially if the Rangers win, that series would feel like a foregone conclusion before it starts). But after yesterday's loss I was like "welp, that's a bummer." And that was kind of it. If we give up the 3-1 series lead, I have a feeling I'll be saying "welp, that's a bummer", and that's kind of it, too.

I don't know if this is a "me" problem and just has to do with a crisis of my own personal fandom (or perhaps personal maturation that my entire life and mood isn't being oriented around a sports team that I like, depends how you look at it), or if there's something about this team and this season that is causing that type of detachment in the fans in general.

The injuries have killed the intrigue of the playoffs

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

The injuries have killed the intrigue of the playoffs

It does feel like playing with house money but with an inevitability of running out of steam.

Watching the Rangers and Devils not deplete each others' lineups from an injury perspective is like watching a car crash in slow motion.

 

[StormCast]

Pesce looks lost at times lately, and flat out gassed. I haven't really noticed Skjei but that's probably not a good thing.

A big part of the problem I think is that their job is to play a shutdown role but neither is good enough to do that, especially against playoff caliber teams. They are all too often missing assignments, getting on the wrong side of the puck and taking bad routes lately. The number of odd-man rushes in transition is just unacceptable.

They are the epitome of a middle pair but nobody other than Slavin is good enough to be on a shutdown pair. It's similar to when Wallin-Gleason were used as the de facto shutdown pair some years back.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Then trading Pesce isn't going to make this team better and they should ride out that contract next year.

I think that’s a fair position. The only reason it’s even in question is that we could potentially make more of Chatfield + New Defenseman + Middle 6 Winger than we are making out of Pesce + Chatfield. But that’s far from a certainty and next year may just be one of those years where you damn the torpedoes and go for it regardless of contract situations.

I don't know if it's that we're now an annual playoff team so the playoffs feel less special, or if it's that after Svech went down (and TT as well), the Cup seemed like such a slim chance that I don't really expect much (especially if the Rangers win, that series would feel like a foregone conclusion before it starts).

Both of these things in combination has taken a lot of the appeal out of it for me. This team isn’t going to win the Cup, would be an underdog in the 2nd round, and would be a longshot in the 3rd round. The current roster is that of a 95-point type team, not a contender. I would like to win this round but not much is hanging on it. And the clear expectation that we will have a better shot next season makes this feel, in all honesty, like we’re just killing time until April 2024.

Fanbases go through this. It’s normal, and it’s a major reason that long-term contending fanbases seem so grumpy.

 

[3CanesInTheBox]

Apparently I drank a lot of wine last night, spam posted this thread, and started crying because we didn't clinch the series.

Just another normal night of hockey?

Sounds like you fit right in, sis

 

[Chrispy]

I think that’s a fair position. The only reason it’s even in question is that we could potentially make more of Chatfield + New Defenseman + Middle 6 Winger than we are making out of Pesce + Chatfield. But that’s far from a certainty and next year may just be one of those years where you damn the torpedoes and go for it regardless of contract situations.

I think Chatfield vs top lines, especially in the playoffs, would have us longing for Pesce.

 

[DaveG]

Can I ask an honest question to everyone here?

Is anyone else having trouble caring all that much about this series? (At least when compared to previous years?)

I don't know if it's that we're now an annual playoff team so the playoffs feel less special, or if it's that after Svech went down (and TT as well), the Cup seemed like such a slim chance that I don't really expect much (especially if the Rangers win, that series would feel like a foregone conclusion before it starts). But after yesterday's loss I was like "welp, that's a bummer." And that was kind of it. If we give up the 3-1 series lead, I have a feeling I'll be saying "welp, that's a bummer", and that's kind of it, too.

I don't know if this is a "me" problem and just has to do with a crisis of my own personal fandom (or perhaps personal maturation that my entire life and mood isn't being oriented around a sports team that I like, depends how you look at it), or if there's something about this team and this season that is causing that type of detachment in the fans in general.

not just you on this one. With all the injuries we've had I had no expectations of even getting out of the first round this year, though I did have us as the favorites in this series after they secured #1M. I don't feel like it's any kind of crisis of fandom, we're just at that spot in the teams cycle where we're waiting on them to take the next step. In a way we're in the same spot that Tampa was in from 2014 until they finally broke through in 2020. Went from being an unexpected playoff team that was fun to watch, to surprising contender, to juggernaut that just simply hasn't put it all together yet to get that ring.

In a way that makes this season look like a lost opportunity, though one that from a timing standpoint we couldn't do a f***ing thing about at least with Svech.

 

[The Faulker 27]

I agree with others that I have lost a fair amount of enthusiasm for this post season. I was perturbed last night mainly due to our poor puck luck. It just wasn't our night, and it happened to be in an elimination game at home, which rubs salt in the wound. That being said I would definitely be properly pissed if we lost this series after going up 3-1, but this season has a black eye already with all the injuries so it wouldn't be without reason. My expectations don't really go beyond this round but losing to Isles would suck.

 

[Sigurd]

Can I ask an honest question to everyone here?

Is anyone else having trouble caring all that much about this series? (At least when compared to previous years?)

I don't know if it's that we're now an annual playoff team so the playoffs feel less special, or if it's that after Svech went down (and TT as well), the Cup seemed like such a slim chance that I don't really expect much (especially if the Rangers win, that series would feel like a foregone conclusion before it starts). But after yesterday's loss I was like "welp, that's a bummer." And that was kind of it. If we give up the 3-1 series lead, I have a feeling I'll be saying "welp, that's a bummer", and that's kind of it, too.

I don't know if this is a "me" problem and just has to do with a crisis of my own personal fandom (or perhaps personal maturation that my entire life and mood isn't being oriented around a sports team that I like, depends how you look at it), or if there's something about this team and this season that is causing that type of detachment in the fans in general.

I just want them to get out of the 1st round. Anything after that with all of the injuries is basically gravy. I'll still care, but I've accepted that realistically the odds aren't as high given the lack of firepower they have from their top 6 without Svech, Pacioretty, and TT. I thought Drury was overall doing well too, and he got injured as well.

Regarding trading Pesce, after all the good him and Skjei have done, it'd hurt to lose either one, but the front office has to at least consider trading one of them for the RIGHT offer given the huge amount of contracts expiring on the team in the summer of 2024, and obviously due to goal scoring woes. If the trade works out to improving the roster overall dependent on what else they do, it's hard to ignore this option.

Personally, I'd prefer it be Skjei that's traded since good RHD are hard to come by (even with all of the goals he's scored this year; I think we'll see some regression next year to some extent), Burns will retire in the not too distant future, and the Hurricanes obviously think very highly of Nikishin, who is a LHD who would actually be able to slot up to the 2nd pairing. Also, yeah, neither Pesce or Skjei have been in their top form from the regular season so far in the playoffs; it especially hurts from Skjei because we need his goal scoring badly (we need it from anyone badly).

Finally, another important factor in us making a big trade with one of our roster players, is how does the rest of the available options to improve through alternative ways turn out? Can we sign one of the better free agents, as slim as the pickings are this summer? Could we get Debrincat without giving up a roster player as important as one of our 2nd pairing defensemen? Do we trade for Hart or Swayman or another good goalie still in his 20s (this seems more pressing than the luxury of trading Pesce/Skeji)? I think the Canes, unless they're blown away by an offer for Pesce or Skjei (Kyle Connor, or Elias Pettersson, or William Nylander for examples, somehow against all odds, become available for one of our D as part of a big package), they will prefer other moves first.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I think Chatfield vs top lines, especially in the playoffs, would have us longing for Pesce.

Oh absolutely. He’s not as good as Pesce, especially not defensively. It’s a matter of whether we have the luxury of continuing to keep Pesce at an increased cap hit. And if not, asking whether Chatfield is at least going to develop into something decent enough to hang in there on a second pairing with a babysitting partner. And if so, does Pesce have enough trade value to give us e.g. another Teravainen level forward for a playoff push.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

I'm not happy with how they're performing, but for each game they play, it's another little bump in my paycheck, so I'm not overly upset over results like last night.

I do still hope they finish it in 6, but rent is due soon, so...

 

[FlyingSquirrels]

I think Chatfield vs top lines, especially in the playoffs, would have us longing for Pesce.

I totally and absolutely 100% disagree with this. He's a better defender than most think apparently. His skating and hustle is excellent.

Plus!! The dude that should be out there on a 6-5 situation or 4-4 should be Chatfield. Instead of Pesce. But I'm aware of Rod's favoritism and "trust" so I get why it will never happen.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I don’t think a deal of pesce or Necas will happen. Now if Buffalo wanted to overpay and Michkov is still there at 13? I bet we jump at the opportunity to get a possible #1 pick type player and then pay to get Demelo for a year. It is a very low chance