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ECHL: Wranglers’ arena woes

easternrefugee

Registered User
Jun 24, 2013
296
0
Bakersfield, CA
Artie Fufkin said:
That article is old. This article from yesterday's R-J says MGM, Mandalay Bay, Thomas & Mack and the Southpoint are all out.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/wranglers-meet-wednesday-echl-discuss-venue-options
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So essentially all fo the 'normal' venues are out. Whether they do a portable one or whatever, I just do not see it drawing the fans that would make it a viable operation. In the Orleans they barely did 4,000 sales. Going to something out of the box with at least two different places to play bsed on the article seems just a little far fetched. Maybe it is time to throw in the towel even with an extension???
 

returnoftheyeti

Registered User
Jan 22, 2014
26
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Vegas is a weird place. I could totally see something like a MGM / Mandalay Bay split for a season.

The primary reason is the "most" locals don't go to the strip. They avoid it like the plague. So, by having a team that has a following, guaranteed to bring 2k+ locals into the "big casino's" on the strip, its a good Loss Leader for MGM. Thats 2k of people that have to walk thorough the casino floor that would normally not. Add in all the free tickets you can give away as a comps, package deals, etc.

Plus, by making a deal with the Wranglers, Hey, we will help you out, they get to snub Boyd Gaming, and to see the actual interest in Hockey, if they want to attempt to attract a NHL team to their new arena.

Like I said, Vegas is weird. In every other ECHL city, the team and the venue probably needs to make money to survive. In Vegas, something can exist, lose money like crazy, and the casinos do not care, because it brings in 2000 people to the slot machines, where they lose 3x the amount of the ticket price.

The demographic difference between MGM and the Orleans is crazy. Orleans is almost ALL locals, MGM is almost all tourist.
 

easternrefugee

Registered User
Jun 24, 2013
296
0
Bakersfield, CA
returnoftheyeti said:
Vegas is a weird place. I could totally see something like a MGM / Mandalay Bay split for a season.

The primary reason is the "most" locals don't go to the strip. They avoid it like the plague. So, by having a team that has a following, guaranteed to bring 2k+ locals into the "big casino's" on the strip, its a good Loss Leader for MGM. Thats 2k of people that have to walk thorough the casino floor that would normally not. Add in all the free tickets you can give away as a comps, package deals, etc.

Plus, by making a deal with the Wranglers, Hey, we will help you out, they get to snub Boyd Gaming, and to see the actual interest in Hockey, if they want to attempt to attract a NHL team to their new arena.

Like I said, Vegas is weird. In every other ECHL city, the team and the venue probably needs to make money to survive. In Vegas, something can exist, lose money like crazy, and the casinos do not care, because it brings in 2000 people to the slot machines, where they lose 3x the amount of the ticket price.

The demographic difference between MGM and the Orleans is crazy. Orleans is almost ALL locals, MGM is almost all tourist.
Click to expand...

You said it perfectly there...Orleans is local. If they kicked out their local team there has to be a GREAT reason. NO ECHL team survives on season ticket sales. the majority of tickets are walk ups. However I do not see tourists paying to go to a local hockey game below the NHL level. MGM is building a HUGE arena which will break ground this spring. I seriously doubt they need a draw of an ECHL team...especially on the strip.
 
lvwranglersfan

lvwranglersfan

Registered User
Jun 8, 2007
103
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Las Vegas, NV
easternrefugee said:
You said it perfectly there...Orleans is local. If they kicked out their local team there has to be a GREAT reason. NO ECHL team survives on season ticket sales. the majority of tickets are walk ups. However I do not see tourists paying to go to a local hockey game below the NHL level. MGM is building a HUGE arena which will break ground this spring. I seriously doubt they need a draw of an ECHL team...especially on the strip.
Click to expand...

You need to look at the bigger picture. Yes, the Orleans is a local place and they are kicking out the Wranglers. They are doing the same thing that happened in San Diego, figuring they can make more money off other events than minor league hockey. It is a business decision, and their right, but in my mind, a bad decision. MGM (the corporation, not the casino) do want to stick it to Boyd gaming, and show even though they are a tourist spot, they can cater to locals as well. Actually it is a shrewd business move. MGM is a sponsor of many of our local schools, and this will just reinforce they are interested in helping locals out too. This is more of a PR move for them than a money maker. Plus if you take Mandalay Bay's arena, they hardly have any events in there, so at least they could make some money off it.

The Wranglers have a decent following here in Vegas and should get similar walk up sales somewhere new. In fact, they should be able to make more money being out of the Orleans. The Orleans put some terrible restrictions on the Wranglers in their arena. The Wranglers got very little, if any, money from concessions. There is no parking revenue. They get nothing from suite sales. They aren't even allowed to display their championship banners prominently, they are hidden away. The Wranglers can't even have all the sponsors they want because of the Orleans. Plus, any hotel that hosts the team will get the visiting team and any fans that travel to games, and there are a lot, after all this is Vegas. Alaska fans by themselves had 100+ rooms reserved at the Orleans for an upcoming trip (which they cancelled by the way).

And by the way, from what I have heard, and this is strictly rumor, the main reason the Orleans started this is because of a personality conflict with the team president. They thought the threat would get the owner to get rid of the president and the owner called their bluff. They have taken it too far to back out now.

Hopefully they won't play in a tent, but I suppose that is a possibility. My guess is one of the two hotels on the strip will take them in.
 
lvwranglersfan

lvwranglersfan

Registered User
Jun 8, 2007
103
0
Las Vegas, NV
HansH said:
The article from 1/31 said something about an announcement by "Wednesday", which I assume was 2/5... anything new?
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Nothing. The newest I have heard is an announcement tomorrow, but who knows? The league already said they would give them another extension if they needed it. Last thing the team president said on twitter was they were inching closer.
 
PCSPounder

PCSPounder

Stadium Groupie
Apr 12, 2012
2,885
574
The Outskirts of Nutria Nanny
Hmmm, tent or "pop-up arena" (or perhaps pre-fab) like the basketball arena in Santa Cruz? Aluminum siding, baby!

99c94ae7-6b52-487c-a52b-ada6ac129cff.jpg


Fold-in bleacher seats and the like...

l.jpg


Now, keep that place refrigerated in Vegas climate? Probably better than a tent, I'd hope.

EDIT- BTW, it took 78 days to construct.
 
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King RAZZ

King RAZZ

Los Cucarachas
Apr 26, 2007
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The Roach Motel
razzilla.multiply.com
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lvwranglersfan

lvwranglersfan

Registered User
Jun 8, 2007
103
0
Las Vegas, NV
RAZZIE King said:
Looks like it's downtown...at the Plaza...for 5 to 10 years...with good behavior...
http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/24730541/wranglers-to-move-to-downtown-las-veags-plaza
One with a little more detail...and I thought it was going to be street level at first...
http://www.lasvegassun.com/blogs/kats-report/2014/feb/14/wranglers-search-new-home-vegas-ends-plaza/

I think the "tents" will be something like what they do for the conventions and at the World Market Center...
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That is the impression I get too. I think the word tent is oversimplifying it. On the one hand, there is the fear of the unknown because we don't really know what they have planned, but on the other hand, it is an interesting plan. A little nervous about 3,500 seats, not that we get a lot more than that on most nights, but still, capping it there seems risky. I am a little nervous about the parking, but when I looked at google maps overheard view, there seems to be a bunch of parking there, and apparently they are thinking of free parking being included with season tickets.

I must admit, this came completely out of left field for me, I was almost certain it would have been Mandalay Bay, but it is better than putting this same kind of structure at the Silverton. I'll reserve judgment until I see the finished product.
 
Ginormousthumbs

Ginormousthumbs

Registered User
Jul 7, 2013
6,715
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West Side
I'm excited about the move downtown! The wife and I might consider season tickets. Hopefully it pays off and also are able to expand on the capacity amount.
 
HansH

HansH

Unwelcome Spectre
Feb 2, 2005
5,294
482
San Diego
www.mib.org
I've been at the Plaza within the last year -- I'm still confused as to whether the new structure is envisoned to coexist with the existing 5th-floor rooftop pool, or replace it... if anyone finds visualizations/concept drawings, I'd really appreciate a pointer. I'm fascinated now -- it's a bold gamble, but definitely a gamble, IMO.
 
HansH

HansH

Unwelcome Spectre
Feb 2, 2005
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482
San Diego
www.mib.org
PCSPounder

PCSPounder

Stadium Groupie
Apr 12, 2012
2,885
574
The Outskirts of Nutria Nanny
Is everybody not seeing the first picture I stole for the Santa Cruz facility? I'm curious because I didn't see it just now and this proposal is, other than the size/shape of the facility, exactly what Santa Cruz has... fabric roof, aluminum siding.

Let's just say I did more than one double-take when I ran across that article this morning. Damn.
 
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returnoftheyeti

Registered User
Jan 22, 2014
26
0
Yes, I see the picture, and yes, I think you nailed it. My only question is how the heck they keep a building like that effectively air conditioned, but yeah, you called it.
 
lvwranglersfan

lvwranglersfan

Registered User
Jun 8, 2007
103
0
Las Vegas, NV
returnoftheyeti said:
Yes, I see the picture, and yes, I think you nailed it. My only question is how the heck they keep a building like that effectively air conditioned, but yeah, you called it.
Click to expand...

Here is a link to the people who have been contracted to build the "arena" in Vegas. There is a fact sheet on their page for an ice complex they built in Pasadena, so obviously it is not foreign to them.

http://www.visionbuildingsystems.com/
 
Cyclones Rock

Cyclones Rock

Registered User
Jun 12, 2008
10,650
6,582
This is pure Vegas!!

Hockey on a rooftop in a tent in the desert!! I love the creativity. With a capacity of 3500, the Wranglers could be a very tough ticket.

Not too many ECHL level type of executives would have had the moxie to pull this off. Especially when faced with such a limited time frame. In fact, there's only one who could. And he did.

Congrats to Billy Johnson on saving the franchise.:handclap:
 
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