25-35 minute drive from Carson City, Gardnerville, etc.How are ECHL employees going to afford living around Lake Tahoe?
I was surprised to learn enough people lived in the area full time to do this. I know Carson City isn’t *far* but it is still an hour away.
Yeah, that’s where I was headed with tourism. I don’t know if I’ve ever heard of that working, or attempted.I mean...just because they're going to do it doesn't mean there actually is enough people there to make it work.
Carson City being a 45-60 minute drive would mean more if the entirety of it didn't equate to one mid-sized suburb and account for the bulk of the region's population.
The ECHL has smaller cities in it that have worked for long periods of time, but they all pretty much have population centers around them to attract from. Wheeling would have no hope of surviving as long as it has if not for it being effectively the western extreme of Pittsburgh's metro. I went to multiple Nailers games as a kid for one reason and one reason alone: affordability.
Of course this is an incredibly wealthy area, so I'd imagine the road to profitability isn't as absurd as it could be...but look at the population of the towns directly around the arena (2010 census data).
Stateline - 842
South Lake Tahoe - 21,330
Round Hill Village - 759
Zephyr Cove - 565
Skyland - 376
Lakeridge - 371
Logan Creek - 26
Glenbrook - 215
Basically everyone on the California side lives in South Lake Tahoe (the rest is mostly unincorporated) and the Nevada side has basically no population centers until Carson City. Carson City isn't that far, but it is far enough to affect sales. It's no coincidence that the number of Dodgers games I go to quadrupled when I went from being ~45 minutes from the stadium to ~15, with the inverse being true of Staples/Crypto.com Arena.
The play is clearly tourism-based, which I really question the merits of at this level.
Yeah, that’s where I was headed with tourism. I don’t know if I’ve ever heard of that working, or attempted.
What’s the capacity of the building?
Yeah, I wouldn’t go much higher than that4,200 "plus" is the number I've seen. Would be the smallest in the league with Trois-Rivières being similarly sized (4,390). Adirondack is the only other team with a barn under 5k.
FWIW average attendance was 4,630 league-wide in 22-23 and 4,200 is a smaller figure than 14 of 28 teams averaged.
Yeah, I wouldn’t go much higher than that
Some of these places just want the dates because in reality it’s a real estate play and they just need enough for expenses.Me neither. There's a glut of teams averaging 3,500 a game and there just isn't the population to justify 5k+.
There's a road to viability here...Wheeling and Iowa are under 2k a game for crying out loud, but profitability seems dubious.
Whats the average size of ECHL market? Probably smaller than AHL.
Team | City Population | Urban Agglomeration | Metropolitan Area Population |
Adirondack (Glens Falls, NY) | 14,830 | 128,774 | |
Allen (Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex) | 104,627 | 7,637,387 | |
Atlanta (Duluth, GA) | 31,873 | 6,144,050 | |
Boise | 235,684 | 433,180 | 764,718 |
Cincinnati | 309,317 | 1,686,744 | 2,265,051 |
Florida (Estero, FL - suburb of Ft. Myers) | 36,939 | 760,822 | |
Fort Wayne | 265,974 | 335,934 | 423,038 |
Greenville | 70,720 | 387,271 | 928,195 |
Indianapolis | 887,642 | 1,699,881 | 2,111,040 |
Iowa (Coralville, IO - suburb of Iowa City) | 22,318 | 171,491 | |
Jacksonville | 949,611 | 1,247,374 | 1,733,937 |
Kalamazoo | 73,598 | 204,562 | 261,108 |
Kansas City (Independence, MO) | 123,011 | 2,192,035 | |
Maine (Portland, ME) | 68,408 | 205,356 | 556,893 |
Newfoundland (St. John's NL) | 110,525 | 178,427 | 205,955 |
Norfolk | 238,005 | 1,047,869 | 1,725,246 |
Orlando | 307,573 | 1,853,896 | 2,691,925 |
Rapid City | 74,703 | 81,251 | 144,558 |
Reading | 95,112 | 276,278 | 428,849 |
Savannah | 147,780 | 309,466 | 404,798 |
South Carolina (N. Charleston, SC - Charleston metro) | 114,852 | 684,773 | 799,636 |
Toledo | 268,508 | 497,952 | 608,145 |
Trois-Rivières | 139,163 | 128,057 | 161,489 |
Tulsa | 413,066 | 722,810 | 1,023,988 |
Utah (West Valley City - suburb of Salt Lake City) | 140,230 | 1,257,936 | |
Wheeling | 27,062 | 81,249 | 145,205 |
Wichita | 397,532 | 500,231 | 647,919 |
Worcester | 206,518 | 482,085 | 978,529 |
Wheeling is mostly a civic thing, where there are government jobs at the arena, so it doesn't matter about the attendance. Iowa, however, is the problem, as it's a new arena but bad performance on ice has resulted in awful attendance, so I'm not sure how much longer that lasts.Me neither. There's a glut of teams averaging 3,500 a game and there just isn't the population to justify 5k+.
There's a road to viability here...Wheeling and Iowa are under 2k a game for crying out loud, but profitability seems dubious.
Wheeling is mostly a civic thing, where there are government jobs at the arena, so it doesn't matter about the attendance. Iowa, however, is the problem, as it's a new arena but bad performance on ice has resulted in awful attendance, so I'm not sure how much longer that lasts.
I wouldn’t worry. I think the college town effect is at play here. And maybe Coralville built something the U of Iowa can eventually take over.I'm not familiar enough with Iowa to speak much on it...but that figure blew my mind for a team in their second arena in a brand new building. There's definitely factors affecting things there (launching a franchise during covid certainly isn't ideal)...but still. They only outdrew Wheeling by 300 in their inaugural season and then saw their attendance drop slightly in year 2, while Wheeling went up 500 per game. That's...worrying.