Series Talk: ECF: New York Rangers vs Florida Panthers *Game 1 Wednesday 5/22 @ 8pm ET*

[UnSandvich]

Tbh I don’t think it’s fair to blame Kakko for Zib & Kreider’s lack of scoring early in the season. The way those 2 were playing together for the first 30-35 games or so, Prime Jagr wouldn’t have helped too much there.

 

[Machinehead]

Tbh I don’t think it’s fair to blame Kakko for Zib & Kreider’s lack of scoring early in the season. The way those 2 were playing together for the first 30-35 games or so, Prime Jagr wouldn’t have helped too much there.

They started scoring almost immediately after getting Kakko off the line.

 

[Brutananadilewski]

They started scoring almost immediately after getting Kakko off the line.

For how long though? There was a bit of a merry-go-round in finding a 3rd player for that line.

 

[IDvsEGO]

They started scoring almost immediately after getting Kakko off the line.

yeah and clearly it’s Kakko’s fault for Mika and Ck not burying chances.
Like I get what you’re trying to say but the tape didn’t reflect that it was “his fault”

 

[Harbour Dog]

No, I did leave GF% out because you, me, and Kreider would outscore opponents.

To his credit, Kakko also drives GF% in a positive direction. I do think he has a role in this league.

I just don't know what to do with him. He creates an entire line that can't score and that leaves me with half the lineup that I want nowhere near him. Even if the GF% is good, we have to get offense out of Kreider and Zibanejad.

With Kakko's lack of scoring, and the way he drags down the scoring of linemates, I don't know if there's a role for him beyond being a ridiculously good 4th liner.

It would also improve his stock quite a bit if he killed penalties. That's something he's going to have to start doing to make money in this league.

I agree with some of the negatives that you mention, but I think that you're undervaluing the player he is now, and the numbers he would be putting up with a guy like Chytil creating more from all of that possession.

Ridiculously good 4th liner is already in Kakko's rearview mirror. Like, Vesey is a very good 4th liner, but if we put him in Kakko's place for the Carolina series, then we may not have come out on top. All of a sudden Carolina would be getting a couple minutes of extra 5v5 o-zone time a game, and they wouldn't be getting hemmed in for long stretches by a big, grindy line.

Scoring is the cherry on top for Kakko. When it starts clicking for him and his linemates, then that line instantly goes from very good 3rd line to top6 level.

 

[Machinehead]

For how long though? There was a bit of a merry-go-round in finding a 3rd player for that line.

They never needed a thrid player. They would have a 60% goal share playing with a corpse.

People are just too hard on that line.

 

[Machinehead]

I agree with some of the negatives that you mention, but I think that you're undervaluing the player he is now, and the numbers he would be putting up with a guy like Chytil creating more from all of that possession.

Ridiculously good 4th liner is already in Kakko's rearview mirror. Like, Vesey is a very good 4th liner, but if we put him in Kakko's place for the Carolina series, then we may not have come out on top. All of a sudden Carolina would be getting a couple minutes of extra 5v5 o-zone time a game, and they wouldn't be getting hemmed in for long stretches by a big, grindy line.

Scoring is the cherry on top for Kakko. When it starts clicking for him and his linemates, then that line instantly goes from very good 3rd line to top6 level.

What he does is intriguing. Like I said, it's just, I really don't know what to do with him. There's a lot of guys I don't want him with.

The line doesn't need to score much. I just don't want to feel like there's no chance. Maybe Chytil gives them a spark.

In Kakko's defense, Wennberg is also f***ing terrible at offense. He's Kakko at center.

 

[chosen]

I have been swayed a lot towards the worthiness of analytics, primarily by the constant drumming of @Machinehead.

However, the ONLY reason the Rangers are in the semis is because of Shesterkin.

If Shesterkin was on Carolina and the Rangers had Andersen in the Carolina series, the Rangers would likely have won zero games.

So, how does goaltending figure into the analytics model being discussed in this thread?

 

[Cuckoo4Kakko]

What he does is intriguing. Like I said, it's just, I really don't know what to do with him. There's a lot of guys I don't want him with.

The line doesn't need to score much. I just don't want to feel like there's no chance. Maybe Chytil gives them a spark.

In Kakko's defense, Wennberg is also f***ing terrible at offense. He's Kakko at center.

You say terrible at offense and use lack of scoring. That's true. The scoring is low. Can't argue that.
But you also have eyes. How many GRADE A chances has he given Wennberg? He can't score for the guy. The SAME thing was happening with Mika and Kreider. Maybe he's just gonna be snake bit for his entire life. But the talent is clearly there.

 

[Brutananadilewski]

They never needed a thrid player. They would have a 60% goal share playing with a corpse.

People are just too hard on that line.

They are supposedly the de facto 1st line. They have been inconsistent this year. Kreider finished with more points than Zibs. The 2nd line was money all season.

Some of that criticism was warranted.

 

[Machinehead]

I have been swayed a lot towards the worthiness of analytics, primarily by the constant drumming of @Machinehead.

However, the ONLY reason the Rangers are in the semis is because of Shesterkin.

If Shesterkin was on Carolina and the Rangers had Andersen in the Carolina series, the Rangers would likely have won zero games.

So, how does goaltending figure into the analytics model being discussed in this thread?

Well, for starters, I don't think that series was that lopsided.

The Hurricanes only had an xG advantage of 14.47-13.49 at 5v5 in the series. Considering that Carolina more or less specializes in the current publicly available analytics, I would say we played absolutely fantastic.

My stance on goaltending has always been that it's exceedingly important to get good goaltending in the playoffs, but that a cavalcade of bad goaltenders have gotten hot for the 24 or so games.

More bad ones have Cups than elite ones.

Would I play the way we do without Shesterkin? No, but if we didn't have him, we wouldn't play this way. It's a non-starter.

You say terrible at offense and use lack of scoring. That's true. The scoring is low. Can't argue that.
But you also have eyes. How many GRADE A chances has he given Wennberg? He can't score for the guy. The SAME thing was happening with Mika and Kreider. Maybe he's just gonna be snake bit for his entire life. But the talent is clearly there.

This is where I disagree, and it's whatever, because you know what I think about the eye test.

But just in my opinion, I don't think Kakko produces all these great chances like people say. I think it's just more frustrating and more memorable when he or one of his linemates shank a chance, because he never scores.

The Panarin-Lafreniere-Trocheck line biffs a good chance every other shift. They generate more, they blow more, they score more.

 

[Harbour Dog]

What he does is intriguing. Like I said, it's just, I really don't know what to do with him. There's a lot of guys I don't want him with.

The line doesn't need to score much. I just don't want to feel like there's no chance. Maybe Chytil gives them a spark.

In Kakko's defense, Wennberg is also f***ing terrible at offense. He's Kakko at center.

Yeah, and honestly, for as much as I'm on the Kakko train, if him and Chytil get a reasonable stretch together and there is still no scoring... I'll be where you're at, I think.

There's no doubt he's valuable for a good playoff team, but if he's not going to score and we aren't going to use him like Pahlsson was, then something has to give.

And just to admit to my bias, Anaheim were my second favourite team for a long time, and Pahlsson was one of my favourite players in the league for a while: those are my types of guys.

 

[Gluten Free Breadman]

Cuylle Wenny Vesey would be a terrible line.

Rempe Goodrow Kakko would actually score goals.

 

[McRanger92]

They are supposedly the de facto 1st line. They have been inconsistent this year. Kreider finished with more points than Zibs. The 2nd line was money all season.

Some of that criticism was warranted.

The team won the President's Trophy. Kreider and Mika had moments this season that made me tear my hair out (Mika dropping his stick in OT against the Sharks, wtf was that?) but they were criticized far to harshly imo. It's not like these are guys trying to prove themselves to our fanbase. They have a lifetime of good play on this team to fall back on, and now they are ripping it up in the playoffs again.

 

[Machinehead]

Also, Igor is exceptionally good and exceptionally consistent, so my stance on goaltending is not necessarily my stance on Igor.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

This will be a physical series but make no mistake the Rangers will punch back. They have a team that can play that game. The refs will call this series tight also so that may be a determining factor in the series. Special teams and goaltending will be huge as always. Rangers in 7.

 

[TominNC]

I get the reasoning for not wanting Rempe in the lineup, but he would really keep Cousins, Bennett, and to an extent Tkachuk in check just by being in the lineup.

No he won't. He won't be on the ice with Bennett and Tkachuk. They won't care what he does otherwise. There are no deterrents. If Rempe fights some goon, so what.

 

[Mike in Houston]

Chris Drury and Peter Laviolette are addressing the media right now, and by the looks of it, Chris Drury just realized he has one in the chamber.

 

[McRanger92]

No he won't. He won't be on the ice with Bennett and Tkachuk. They won't care what he does otherwise. There are no deterrents. If Rempe fights some goon, so what.

Who cares if he's on the ice with Tkachuck or Bennett? I want him on the ice pounding Forsling and Ekblad into the boards. That's his real value. Maybe get in Bob's kitchen as well. People are so worried about the Panthers taking liberties, I think the Rangers should as well. That's not a position Florida is used to being in. They'll certainly retaliate, its in their nature.

Chris Drury and Peter Laviolette are addressing the media right now, and by the looks of it, Chris Drury just realized he has one in the chamber.View attachment 873913

Must be the bacon and hot oil pie from Colony Grill.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Is there a video of today’s press conference?

 

[n8]

You say terrible at offense and use lack of scoring. That's true. The scoring is low. Can't argue that.
But you also have eyes. How many GRADE A chances has he given Wennberg? He can't score for the guy. The SAME thing was happening with Mika and Kreider. Maybe he's just gonna be snake bit for his entire life. But the talent is clearly there.

If you go back and look at Chytil's goals from last year, a lot of them are from Kakko digging up the puck and dishing to the slot. Chytil can shoot and take advantage of those GRADE A chances. Wennberg... I dunno what that guy needs but praying he gets it. I'm just guessing he's not much of a shooter. More of a disher so maybe Chytil is exactly what those two need.

 

[Machinehead]

Carolina are the best analytics team in the league. We played them even at 5v5.

And this isn't like one weird model on Twitter, like, you can see it on NaturalStatTrick. We straight up played them even.

If you believe the same metrics, we played Washington even too.

That's how we are. We kind of settle in where our opponents are. I think we do it to conserve energy. Carolina blew multi-goal leads more than once. We blew zero. Our only bad third was in game 5. 2-0 in overtime. We had more legs than they did.

We're content to break even and rely on Igor and special teams. You can't get killed 5v5 and rely on those things. You can certainly break even and rely on those things. Teams have won the Cup doing it.

Obviously, we can elevate when we want to. We just did it.

I'm not saying we're gonna win the Cup because it's hard now, but I was seriously impressed with how we played Carolina.

 

[hardnosed]

If Wheeler plays he should be on line 4 but i honestly think that Roslovic is gonna struggle against this teams physicality so i wouldn't be surprised if he shows up on the zib line mostly because the only other option is Kakko and that hasn't really worked.


I have no idea why neither coach has used Kakko on the pk, he is built for that and you could keep Trochek off it and run their line out after a pk.

To be effective on the PK you have to be able to start and stop quickly. Not an expert on quickness in small spaces but that doesn't seem to be Kakko's forte

 

[Boris Zubov]

Rempe Goodrow Kakko would actually score goals.

Based on what exactly?

 

[will1066]

If kakko is off PP2 and plays only 5v5 minutes, idgaf at this point. It's the playoffs