Early era (pre 1926) all time team

[Nalyd Psycho]

Thanks for all your teams,
but I would also like to see your 3rd and 4th lines and D parings and all, just like a normal team's, because I know that Cyclone, Nighbor, Lalonde and Malone are best forwards, and Cleghorn, Boucher, and Johnson etc are the best defensemen. I would like to see where some of the ''lesser'' guys would enter the mix. Like how you guys think MacKay, Keats, Fredrickton, McGee, Foyston etc would fit in at Center (or other positions) and how Darragh, Pitre, Bowie, Broadbent, and others would fit in at the wing and the same with the defensemen. So, could you make the teams a 12-6-2 format, with 4 lines, 3 D parings, and two goalies. Thanks.

3rd team:

Cy Denneny-Tom Dunderdale-Didier Pitre
Duncan MacKay
George Boucher-Harry Cameron
Bouse Hutton

4th team latter...

 

[UltimateHockeyFan8]

The best of the best. No role players, unless they are the best. Example Gainey might be on a 70s or 80s or Habs all time teams, because he was one of the best, and just happened to be a role player. Don't put a role player just to put a role player.

And yes position changing is acceptable, so you can put a center on the wing and stuff like that.

 

[UltimateHockeyFan8]

just best of the best? or the most cohesive team with role players?

and, 12 forwards? or 4 LW, 4 C, 4 RW? Because those are two completely different end results.

Keep at least one center on every line

 

[seventieslord]

Keep at least one center on every line

it's not keeping a center on every line that will be a problem. it's filling up the team with 8 wingers that would make it difficult. If you're just after 12 forwards... sure.

 

[UltimateHockeyFan8]

it's not keeping a center on every line that will be a problem. it's filling up the team with 8 wingers that would make it difficult. If you're just after 12 forwards... sure.

But please specify who you're putting on the wings, don't just name the players. If you put a rover or Center on the wing maybe put the guys you think might play wing today or something. Just a suggestion Do what you want though.

 

[seventieslord]

OK, here's my team. And I'll try to make it a cohesive unit and stay true to positions, but to do so, I'll have to take advantage of multi-positional forwards.

Nighbor - Lalonde - Taylor
Malone - Bowie - McKay
Walker - Crawford - Foyston
Phillips - Dunderdale - Oatman

Cleghorn - Johnson
Gerard - Cameron
L.Patrick - Pulford

Benedict
Vezina

I probably missed a couple of guys. This was off the top of my hear. Also, with the exception of Pulford, Bowie and Phillips, this is really heavy on the 1910-1926 generation and ignores those earlier guys. It's tough to place them on the same list because the later guys were so clearly better. When they matured, that was simply the end of the prior generation. Almost no one survived.

A pre-1910 team, now that would be pretty cool.

 

[jkrx]

I realize his career was short compared to most of the others I named, but he led the PCHA in scoring by defensemen every time he played a full season. And he was at one point declared by the NY Times to be the most outstanding defenseman in Canada. I realize we don't have a lot to go by, but it certainly looks like his stature was a lot higher.

He was a very good or great offensive d-man, true but from what Ive been told he was lacking defensively. Most here is based on rumours or statements we read or hear and I heard this so thats why I dont put much stock in Frank. I could very well be wrong though.

 

[UltimateHockeyFan8]

OK, here's my team. And I'll try to make it a cohesive unit and stay true to positions, but to do so, I'll have to take advantage of multi-positional forwards.

Nighbor - Lalonde - Taylor
Malone - Bowie - McKay
Walker - Crawford - Foyston
Phillips - Dunderdale - Oatman

Cleghorn - Johnson
Gerard - Cameron
L.Patrick - Pulford

Benedict
Vezina

I probably missed a couple of guys. This was off the top of my hear. Also, with the exception of Pulford, Bowie and Phillips, this is really heavy on the 1910-1926 generation and ignores those earlier guys. It's tough to place them on the same list because the later guys were so clearly better. When they matured, that was simply the end of the prior generation. Almost no one survived.

A pre-1910 team, now that would be pretty cool.

Thank you for your full team, now I need some justifications. Why Crawford, Walker and Oatman instead of DYE, DENNENY, McGee, Darragh, Pitre, Broadbent, Keats, Fredrickson or Noble to name a few?

Also, I would like to hear your reasoning for picking L. Patrick and Pulford over Boucher or Joe Hall or F. Patrick or Art Ross.

 

[UltimateHockeyFan8]

A pre-1910 team, now that would be pretty cool.

Try it

 

[Dreakmur]

OK, here's my team. And I'll try to make it a cohesive unit and stay true to positions, but to do so, I'll have to take advantage of multi-positional forwards.

Nighbor - Lalonde - Taylor
Malone - Bowie - McKay
Walker - Crawford - Foyston
Phillips - Dunderdale - Oatman

Cleghorn - Johnson
Gerard - Cameron
L.Patrick - Pulford

Benedict
Vezina

I probably missed a couple of guys. This was off the top of my hear. Also, with the exception of Pulford, Bowie and Phillips, this is really heavy on the 1910-1926 generation and ignores those earlier guys. It's tough to place them on the same list because the later guys were so clearly better. When they matured, that was simply the end of the prior generation. Almost no one survived.

A pre-1910 team, now that would be pretty cool.

Nice work. I've only got a few disagreements.

I'd definately have Mike Grant ahead of Harry Cameron. Also, Alf Smith would be one of the best bottom 6 wingers here - he should definately be here. Frank McGee, like Smith, fits real well into the bottom 6. We'll also throw Dan Bain down on the 4th line too. Based on anecdotal evidence, he would also fit well in that roll.

Here's how I'd change your roster:

Joe Malone - Newsy Lalonde - Cyclone Taylor
Cy Denneny - Russell Bowie - Frank Nighbor
Jack Walker - Mickey MacKay - Tommy Phillips
Alf Smith - Frank Mcgee - Dan Bain

Sprague Cleghorn - Eddie Gerard
Ernie Johnson - Mike Grant
Lester Patrick - Harvey Pulford

Clint Benedict
Hugh Lehman

 

[seventieslord]

Nice work. I've only got a few disagreements.

I'd definately have Mike Grant ahead of Harry Cameron. Also, Alf Smith would be one of the best bottom 6 wingers here - he should definately be here. Frank McGee, like Smith, fits real well into the bottom 6. We'll also throw Dan Bain down on the 4th line too. Based on anecdotal evidence, he would also fit well in that roll.

Here's how I'd change your roster:

Joe Malone - Newsy Lalonde - Cyclone Taylor
Cy Denneny - Russell Bowie - Frank Nighbor
Jack Walker - Mickey MacKay - Tommy Phillips
Alf Smith - Frank Mcgee - Dan Bain

Sprague Cleghorn - Eddie Gerard
Ernie Johnson - Mike Grant
Lester Patrick - Harvey Pulford

Clint Benedict
Hugh Lehman

McGee played for four years. Is that really enough?

Bain played in 27 Winnipeg Senior league games in the 1890s and 11 stanley cup matches. Is that really enough?

I'm actually not sure why some of you value Bain so much and take him in the ATD. I'm not convinced he's a much more deserving pick than the likes of Billy McGimsie and Billy Gilmour.

 

[Dreakmur]

A pre-1910 team, now that would be pretty cool.

Tommy Phillips – Russell Bowie – Blair Russel
Herb Jordan - Frank McGee – Alf Smith
Harry Westwick – Jack Marshall – Cecil Blachford
Ernie Russell - Dan Bain – Art Farrell

Mike Grant – Harvey Pulford
Hod Stuart – Dickie Boon
Jack Campbell – Hobey Baker

Riley Hern
Tom Paton


The two guys who I wanted to include but just couldn't get them on were Jack Laviolette and Graham Drinkwater. I had Fred Scanlan as the 4th line LW, but Russell was too good to leave off. Maybe I could put Scanlan back in on the 4th line and move Russell up to the 3rd and knock Blachford out... nah, I'll stick with what I've got there.

 

[Dreakmur]

McGee played for four years. Is that really enough?

Bain played in 27 Winnipeg Senior league games in the 1890s and 11 stanley cup matches. Is that really enough?

I'm actually not sure why some of you value Bain so much and take him in the ATD. I'm not convinced he's a much more deserving pick than the likes of Billy McGimsie and Billy Gilmour.

If you account for era differences in longevity, McGee's career would be like a current NHLer having a 8 or 9 year career. His dominance over that short time, I think, makes him at least a consideration for the 4th line. His peak is Eric Lindros-like.

Bain's prominence in the Cup Challenges are the reason I think he's a legit player. Also, the evidence shows he was at worst a great skater, good face-off man, and dominant physical presence. I wouldn't take him as anything more than a 4th liner at this point, but maybe with some more information, he could jump up to a 2nd line glue guy.

I did consider swapping Dan Bain out and Blair Russel in. The only reason I left Bain there is for his physical play.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

4th team latter...

4th team:

Frank Foyston-Rusty Crawford-Reg Noble
Ernie Russell
Harvey Pulford-Lester Patrick
Georges Vezina

 

[EagleBelfour]

Pré-1927 All-Star Team

Coach: Pete Green

Joe "Phantom" Malone - Edouard ''Newsy'' Lalonde - Fred ''Cyclone'' Taylor
Cy Denneny - Frank "Pembroke Peach" Nighbor - Didier "Cannonball" Pitre
Tommy "Nibs" Phillips - Mickey "The Wee Scot" MacKay - Frank Foyston
Jack Walker - Gordon ''Iron Duke'' Keats - Harry "Punch" Broadbent
Russell Bowie
Cecil ''Babe'' Dye

Sprague "Peg" Cleghorn - Eddie Gerard
Harry "Cammie" Cameron - Ernie ''Moose'' Johnson
Lester ''The Silver Fox'' Patrick - Georges ''Buck'' Boucher
Mike Grant

Clint "Praying Bennie" Benedict
Georges "Chicoutimi Cucumber" Vezina
Harry ''Hap'' Holmes

Pré-1910 All-Star Team

Coach: Alf Smith

Tommy "Nibs" Phillips - Frank ''One Eye'' McGee - Alf Smith
Bruce Stuart - Russell Bowie - Blair Russel
Harry ''Rat'' Westwick - Dan ''The Masked Man'' Bain - Billy Gilmour
Herb Jordan - Marty Walsh - Ernie Russell
Harry ''Flip'' Trihey
Arthur Farrell

Mike Grant - Harvey Pulford
Hod Stuart - Dickie Boon
Graham Drinkwater - Allan Cameron
Jack Campbell

Riley Hern
Tom Paton
Billy Nicholson

Pré-1900 All-Star Team

Robert McDougall - Dan ''The Masked Man'' Bain - Arthur ''Dolly'' Swift
Haviland Routh - Harry "Flip" Trihey - Arthur Farrell
Billy Barlow - Clare McKerrow - Jack Findlay

Mike Grant - Graham Drinkwater
Allan Cameron - Jack Campbell
Weldy Young

Tom Paton
Herbert Collins

I don't have my books with me, so I run out of name for the Pre-1900. Any help?

 

[seventieslord]

I don't have my books with me, so I run out of name for the Pre-1900. Any help?

Scanlan? Davidson? Jack Brannen?

 

[Dreakmur]

Scanlan? Davidson? Jack Brannen?

Blachford

 

[seventieslord]

Blachford, pre-1900?

 

[seventieslord]

Also, add tony gingras on forward, that gives you 13. Rod flett makes a good 7th d, while Pulford competed for enough of the 1890s to make his mark there too. That's a whole team!

 

[Dreakmur]

Blachford, pre-1900?

oops - thought it was 1910

 

[EagleBelfour]

Scanlan? Davidson? Jack Brannen?

- My first thought was to reunite the famous Shamrocks together, but Fred Scanlan only competed two season and in one Stanley Cup game prior to 1900.

- The only Davidson I know is Scotty Davidson, who played way past 1900.

- Forgot about Jack Brannen. He's in!

Also, add tony gingras on forward, that gives you 13. Rod flett makes a good 7th d, while Pulford competed for enough of the 1890s to make his mark there too. That's a whole team!

- Antoine Gingras played most of his career after the 1899 season, although he still competed 4 full season between 20 and 24. He's in mostly due to necessity.

- Forgot about Flett too, good #7!

- Interresting about Pulford. I didn't thought he started playing that early. He's in.

----------------------------------------

Pré-1900 All-Star Team

Coach: XXX

Robert McDougall - Dan ''The Masked Man'' Bain - Arthur ''Dolly'' Swift
Haviland Routh - Harry "Flip" Trihey - Arthur Farrell
Billy Barlow - Clare McKerrow - Jack Findlay
XXX - Jack Brannen - Tony Gingras
XXX
XXX

Mike Grant - Graham Drinkwater
Allan Cameron - Jack Campbell
Weldy Young - Harvey Pulford
Rod ''Doc'' Flett

Tom Paton
Herbert Collins
XXX

 

[seventieslord]

Notice that all the people putting together teams have one thing in common - thry are all ATD GMs. If you want to learn more about hockey history, go to the atd. Best bang for your buck.

 

[UltimateHockeyFan8]

Here is my go at a team:

Malone. Taylor. Lalonde
Denneny. Nighbor. Dye
T. Phillips. McGee. Bowie
Walker'. MacKay. Foyston
--------------------------------------
Keats. Fredrickson. Pitre

Cleghorn. Johnson
Gerard. Cameron
Boucher' Pulford
----------------------------
L. Patrick. Stuart

Benedict
Vezina
-------------
Lehman

 

[Hardyvan123]

If you account for era differences in longevity, McGee's career would be like a current NHLer having a 8 or 9 year career. His dominance over that short time, I think, makes him at least a consideration for the 4th line. His peak is Eric Lindros-like.

Bain's prominence in the Cup Challenges are the reason I think he's a legit player. Also, the evidence shows he was at worst a great skater, good face-off man, and dominant physical presence. I wouldn't take him as anything more than a 4th liner at this point, but maybe with some more information, he could jump up to a 2nd line glue guy.

I did consider swapping Dan Bain out and Blair Russel in. The only reason I left Bain there is for his physical play.

I have to admit that this era is not my area of expertise but I would not hold my breath on any new information coming out on Bain.

It's been like 10 years after all.

just one note, with the lack of information and the lack of longevity or cohesion of most, okay all of the leagues, leagues,teams and players this era is easily the most difficult to rank players after the obvious top guys IMO.

 

[Iain Fyffe]

I have to admit that this era is not my area of expertise but I would not hold my breath on any new information coming out on Bain.

It wasn't that long ago that I compiled his career stats in the first place...

Bain deserves to be mentioned in the discussion, particularly if you're looking at a pre-1900 team. He'd make that squad in a second. He may have played only 27 senior games, but the Winnipeg senior series at the time didn't play more than five matches per year, and amateur athletes often retired from competition before their thirtieth birthday, as he did.

I also think you do need to do several teams; "pre-1926" is too broad and covers changing times in the game. I'd take a stab at some teams but it's not something I'd do off the top of my head; too easy to omit someone. I'd probably find a way to put Billy Breen on a team somewhere.

And Hobey Baker wouldn't even be in the arena.