Dustin Tokarski (Recalled)

[Bryson]

I love reading eyeontheprize as it always calms me down because they present things in a level headed way after an emotional game.

Upon further review Tokarski doesn't look as bad as I thought.

The first goal was a deflection and Healey is a moron for ripping on Toks on that goal.

The second goal was an odd man rush which was created by a lack of back pressure. While you would almost have to cheat in anticipation of the pass, it's hard to fault him on that one.

On the third goal, not ONLY was it a perfect shot in the top corner but it never should have counted as Kreider was in the crease.

So all in all what hurt us most was the timing of the goals, first one 17 seconds after we score and the second right at the end of the first period and while I think that Price makes those stops, I don't think that Tokarski played that badly.

Click to read more...

 

[3low5*]

Anybody blaming Tokarski is an idiot.

Habs aren't winning even with jesus himself in net when they only score once.

 

[coolasprICE]

Anybody blaming Tokarski is an idiot.

Habs aren't winning even with jesus himself in net when they only score once.

I agree its not his fault that we lost but if rangers don't score a 2nd or 3rd maybe the habs would have built enough momentum to score two or more.

Lastly even tokarski said he wish he could have the 2nd goal back.

 

[canadiensnation]

I love reading eyeontheprize as it always calms me down because they present things in a level headed way after an emotional game.

Upon further review Tokarski doesn't look as bad as I thought.

The first goal was a deflection and Healey is a moron for ripping on Toks on that goal.

The second goal was an odd man rush which was created by a lack of back pressure. While you would almost have to cheat in anticipation of the pass, it's hard to fault him on that one.

On the third goal, not ONLY was it a perfect shot in the top corner but it never should have counted as Kreider was in the crease.

So all in all what hurt us most was the timing of the goals, first one 17 seconds after we score and the second right at the end of the first period and while I think that Price makes those stops, I don't think that Tokarski played that badly.

The second goal is Bork's fault because he did not even make an attempt to back check on Rick Nash. He was looking around him like a brain dead zombie when the 3rd player out wide on the rush is all open for a one-timer. Also Kreider was the one that pressured the point man and guess who was Kreiders man....Bork.

 

[habtastic]

Didn't notice Krieder in the crease until just now. WTF?! How did we just let that slide? I guess cuz Tokarski wasn't even trying to come to the lip. He needs to have more fight in him there, cuz if he does that - then yeah, I can see the goal being waved off.

 

[Hoople]

Good on you to defend Tokarski.

With that said, Goal 1 was a fluke since it deflected off of Gorges. Goals 2 and 3 are directly Tokarski's fault.

Tokarski is not Ben Bishop. He is 5' 11" tall. Playing the way he does right now will assure that Tokarski will forever be a minor league goalie.

Tim Thomas is also a short goalie at the same height. What allowed Thomas to win a Cup is that he did not stay tucked in the goal. Thomas played outside of the crease to compensate for his lack of height. And it worked well for him.

Look at all of those goals (even the deflected puck) and one thing remains constant. Tokarski is playing too deep and too close to the goal.

The other factor is that Tokarski has a tendency to go down too quickly. You can clearly see that in the 3rd goal. Shots high will be bread and butter for the Rangers and have a high likelihood of becoming goals.

He needs a lot more training. A lots more.

 

[Hoople]

Didn't notice Krieder in the crease until just now. WTF?! How did we just let that slide? I guess cuz Tokarski wasn't even trying to come to the lip. He needs to have more fight in him there, cuz if he does that - then yeah, I can see the goal being waved off.

Kreider can be in the crease all he wants as long as he did not make contact with Tokarski.

Tokarski needs to take back his crease and not play so deep.

 

[habtastic]

Kreider can be in the crease all he wants as long as he did not make contact with Tokarski.

Tokarski needs to take back his crease and not play so deep.

Yup, that's what I'm saying, he needs to come out there and if Kreider doesn't get out of the way, it's interference. I genuinely think Tokarski is comfortable playing that deep, which means he is not ready.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Good/bad/or average, dude shouldn't have been between the pipes in the first place. Period. Full marks to Budaj as a professional if they ever ask him to take over and he gives more than the 50% effort they deserve for not giving him the net over Tokarski to begin with.

 

[PsychoticHab]

Good on you to defend Tokarski.

With that said, Goal 1 was a fluke since it deflected off of Gorges. Goals 2 and 3 are directly Tokarski's fault.

Tokarski is not Ben Bishop. He is 5' 11" tall. Playing the way he does right now will assure that Tokarski will forever be a minor league goalie.

Tim Thomas is also a short goalie at the same height. What allowed Thomas to win a Cup is that he did not stay tucked in the goal. Thomas played outside of the crease to compensate for his lack of height. And it worked well for him.

Look at all of those goals (even the deflected puck) and one thing remains constant. Tokarski is playing too deep and too close to the goal.

The other factor is that Tokarski has a tendency to go down too quickly. You can clearly see that in the 3rd goal. Shots high will be bread and butter for the Rangers and have a high likelihood of becoming goals.

He needs a lot more training. A lots more.

Unless you are Bishop (may even have to be taller than that), if you can't see the shot and the shooter snipes the top corner perfectly, it won't matter who is in net it will go in.

As for Goal #2, that's a goal you hope to get but if Bourque won't backcheck that puts a lot of pressure on the goalie. Subban and Gorges had their coverages but you have to get someone to come back and take the trailer on the play from the NYR.

 

[coolasprICE]

Good/bad/or average, dude shouldn't have been between the pipes in the first place. Period. Full marks to Budaj as a professional if they ever ask him to take over and he gives more than the 50% effort they deserve for not giving him the net over Tokarski to begin with.

Suppose budaj stank last night.

Who would start game 3?

I think this is precisely the scenario they wanted to avoid...having to put tokarski in nets on the road for his first start.

Plus you go with the goalie that you think will give you the best chance to win. Principles shminciples.

 

[Teufelsdreck]

He's not bad but he'll never be an NHL starter. I don't hold the loss against him.

 

[Bryson]

Didn't notice Krieder in the crease until just now. WTF?! How did we just let that slide? I guess cuz Tokarski wasn't even trying to come to the lip. He needs to have more fight in him there, cuz if he does that - then yeah, I can see the goal being waved off.

That's what I really really don't understand. The linesman is right there. Are players allowed to be in the crease as long as they don't touch the goalie or what? I don't understand this rule. It should be automatic. Either way Price would have fought through the screen but you can't argue the quality of the shot.

Good/bad/or average, dude shouldn't have been between the pipes in the first place. Period. Full marks to Budaj as a professional if they ever ask him to take over and he gives more than the 50% effort they deserve for not giving him the net over Tokarski to begin with.

If anything Budaj should feel vindicated. If I was him I would say, see you let the rookie have his chance not let me show you how a real warrior does it. RAWR! I would even wear facepaint 'cause it would freak out the other team and throw them off their game.

 

[Hoople]

Unless you are Bishop (may even have to be taller than that), if you can't see the shot and the shooter snipes the top corner perfectly, it won't matter who is in net it will go in.

As for Goal #2, that's a goal you hope to get but if Bourque won't backcheck that puts a lot of pressure on the goalie. Subban and Gorges had their coverages but you have to get someone to come back and take the trailer on the play from the NYR.

On goal #2, Tokarski had the puck deflect off of his body.

On goal #3, Tokarski was down before the shot was taken.

We can lay blame on any forward or DMan but ultimately, it falls on Tokarski's shoulders.

Sucks for the kid. I was hoping for a better outcome obviously.

 

[EagleBelfour]

I'll admit I never been a fan of Tokarski, and it won't start after yesterday's game. I really can't understand the fuzz about him, and even to an extent I feel some people/journalist are cutting him more slack/raving about him more than they should. I've played goaltender for the past 20 years, so I'll give my scouting report on him. I've seen all of his NHL appearance with Montreal, but haven't seen any other pro games.

Cons:
He's a rather small goaltender, who plays small and who's on his knees much often than he should (I remember Jocelyn Thibault and Jose Theodore before his breakout season doing it in the same manner). He reacts on plays rather than anticipate, which perhaps is part nervosity/part lack of experience at the NHL level. A great goaltender is like a good chess player, where he sees a certain play and already anticipate all the moves that can be done, and how he should react on all of them.

Pros:
I really like the calm demeanor he shows on the ice. After a goal or a big save, he stays calm and focus. This is something Carey Price got to learn in the last few years and it payed off. I also love his athleticism; this is what bring him to that level.


At the very best, Dustin Tokarski could become the next Jaroslav Halak, and I believe he should try to emulate his style of play. Halak, for all his flaws, plays much bigger in net than he is. He's also much better at anticipating plays and obviously his terrific eye-hand coordination helps. However, I believe Halak was just a better goaltender at his age than Tokarski, and just watching Halak play, he was oozing confidence by the way he played, was really square in his net, and didn't panic in front of the goal the way Tokarski does it. Again, I might be unfair to a 24-years-old goaltender who just started playing at the NHL level, but in my opinion Tokarski is a dime-a-dozen goaltender who'll be nothing more than a fringe NHL goaltender, which is fine, and I'm sure he'll carve out a nice professional career, but in short term I think it was a bad decision to put him in goal yesterday.


Talking about yesterday's game, I will disagree that Tokarski couldn't do nothing on the 2nd goal of the game, scored by Rick Nash. I'm not saying this goal only rest of his shoulders and he's the sole player on the ice responsible for it, but it's definitely a must save, and one that any NHL goaltender would/should make. When I was talking about anticipation earlier, Tokarski does not have a clue that a NYR player his coming on his left side, in occurrence Rick Nash, and he's completely caught off guard when the pass is made. You can see him making half-a-step on his left side instead of a full stride and realizing only after turning his head late, that a shot will be taken.

Overall, Tokarski did play decent last game, but it was big gamble to play him instead of Budaj, and it didn't payed off. However, I respect the coaching staff to have made this decision, as the safer choice was definitely going with Budaj, and one I would of made. At this point though, I think they have to ride Tokarski at least one more game, and hope a spark happen in game #3.

 

[3low5*]

Kreider can be in the crease all he wants as long as he did not make contact with Tokarski.

Not quite. If the players positioning in the crease is such that the goalie can't come out and get set for the shot, it is goaltender interference whether contact is made or not.

 

[PsychoticHab]

Not quite. If the players positioning in the crease is such that the goalie can't come out and get set for the shot, it is goaltender interference whether contact is made or not.

By rule you are correct but it is very rarely enforced though.

 

[Hoople]

Not quite. If the players positioning in the crease is such that the goalie can't come out and get set for the shot, it is goaltender interference whether contact is made or not.

You just validated two points I made.

If there is no contact, then its a good goal. Kreider did not make contact with Tokarski so it counts.

And the second point is that Tokarski is playing too deep. He gives the opportunity for guys like Kreider to get in far too deep.

Oh, and if Murray were on the ice, he would have cleared the crease.

 

[Hoople]

That's what I really really don't understand. The linesman is right there. Are players allowed to be in the crease as long as they don't touch the goalie or what? I don't understand this rule. It should be automatic. Either way Price would have fought through the screen but you can't argue the quality of the shot.

They did away with the foot in the crease disallowing a goal back in 2000 (I think that was the year).

Kreider running goalies might bring it back.

 

[PsychoticHab]

You just validated two points I made.

If there is no contact, then its a good goal. Kreider did not make contact with Tokarski so it counts.

And the second point is that Tokarski is playing too deep. He gives the opportunity for guys like Kreider to get in far too deep.

Oh, and if Murray were on the ice, he would have cleared the crease.

As stated by the guy you quoted, contact does not have to be made as long as the goalie is impeded with. (As long as the player is in the crease) It just isn't normally enforced that way as it is a judgement call by the ref.

Does Hank play too far back? It is Torkarski's style and it has worked for him at every level. He'll rely on his reflexes and will have to live and die by them.

As for Goal #3, it doesn't matter that he went down to his knees, he never saw the shot coming with Kreider there and St-Louis put the puck where no goalie will be able to block it with position alone.

 

[vokiel]

Anybody blaming Tokarski is an idiot.

Habs aren't winning even with jesus himself in net when they only score once.

No man Jesus would win this big times:

 

[yianik]

As I understand it a goalie is allowed to establish position in the blue paint and if he is prevented from doing so by a player in his crease then its a penalty. This season Price has gotten several penalties called on opposing players because he moved into them trying to establish position and so even though he is the one making contact, they get the penalty.

 

[RafaelSomma]

Budaj is done in Montreal. Tokarski will be the new number 2 goaltender. They need to develop him anyways.

 

[Bryson]

Good on you to defend Tokarski.

With that said, Goal 1 was a fluke since it deflected off of Gorges. Goals 2 and 3 are directly Tokarski's fault.

Tokarski is not Ben Bishop. He is 5' 11" tall. Playing the way he does right now will assure that Tokarski will forever be a minor league goalie.

Tim Thomas is also a short goalie at the same height. What allowed Thomas to win a Cup is that he did not stay tucked in the goal. Thomas played outside of the crease to compensate for his lack of height. And it worked well for him.

Look at all of those goals (even the deflected puck) and one thing remains constant. Tokarski is playing too deep and too close to the goal.

The other factor is that Tokarski has a tendency to go down too quickly. You can clearly see that in the 3rd goal. Shots high will be bread and butter for the Rangers and have a high likelihood of becoming goals.

He needs a lot more training. A lots more.

I do think that Tokarski has a Halak, Tim Thomas type of upside but even Thomas didn't win until he was in his thirties. And as much as I love Price and for all his size and tools, he did not become truly elite until he started working with Stephane Waite this year.

Kreider can be in the crease all he wants as long as he did not make contact with Tokarski.

Tokarski needs to take back his crease and not play so deep.

You're right, Kreider can be in the crease as long as there is not contact. I just looked up the rule. Tokarski playing deep is a lack of confidence?

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26480

69.1 Interference on the Goalkeeper - This rule is based on the premise that an attacking player’s position, whether inside or outside the crease, should not, by itself, determine whether a goal should be allowed or disallowed.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26557

They did away with the foot in the crease disallowing a goal back in 2000 (I think that was the year).

Kreider running goalies might bring it back.

Good call. Back in 99 the Sabres got burned in the Cup Final due to Hulls goal where his foot was in the crease. The rule was removed immediately afterwards.

 

[PsychoticHab]

As I understand it a goalie is allowed to establish position in the blue paint and if he is prevented from doing so by a player in his crease then its a penalty. This season Price has gotten several penalties called on opposing players because he moved into them trying to establish position and so even though he is the one making contact, they get the penalty.

Paragraph #3 of Rule 69.1 states that contact does not even need to be made as long as the player in the crease is impeding the goalie's ability to move in the crease.