Dustin Byfuglien - Part II

[Habib21]

Did he just build a straw man, thank me for it and leave? not to mention I think he just called DP better than Buff.

Never called DP better than Buff, and I prefer Buff over Phaneuf. Realized a mistake I made, admitted it, and was promptly made fun of for it. Cheers to you!

I would also argue, even disregarding my error... that if they wouldn't do that deal for Phaneuf where they would ALSO get to offload Weiss and have the defenseman signed for the future at a cap hit for around 6mil per assuming Toronto retained 1ml per year on the contract...... then they wouldn't offer the same thing for a UFA who will probably ask for more than 6mil per in new contract and still have to hold onto Weiss. Yes Buff is better than Phaneuf in my opinion... and hence why I'm here asking your opinions. But you sure tore me down didn't you... lol

 

[Huffer]

IMO if they sign Buff they intend to keep him. Otherwise why would he sign? He could just go to free agency and sign with the highest bidder or the destination of his choice. I doubt very much a Buff signing doesn't come along with almost or total control over future movement.

Agreed, What I was trying to say is that the poster was saying that if Buff was signed longer he'd get a better return (true). But the 1st plus a good prospect IS the common rental price. In a situation where Buff had more years, his value would be more than what's being discussed in the last few posts IMO.

 

[Habib21]

Agreed, What I was trying to say is that the poster was saying that if Buff was signed longer he'd get a better return (true). But the 1st plus a good prospect IS the common rental price. In a situation where Buff had more years, his value would be more than what's being discussed in the last few posts IMO.

I would argue though that someone who is a trade deadline acquisition usually costs more because of the lack of available players..... there are no free agents at all, nor are all teams willing to move players from their core if they are playoff bound..... playoff or fringe teams are also bidding for service more at that time in order to try and compete for the cup. I realize that this may go against common theory though....I would be curious to see and know the correlation of trade value from Deadline trades as opposed to those in free agency. Regardless, Holland has said in the past that he will not trade a first round pick for a one year rental player. He has however traded 2nd and 3rd round picks for rentals.

I'm open to trading a 1st though, as I feel Detroit has shown year after year they are able to draft high caliber players in late rounds. I think they are one if not the only team that can devalue their 1st round pick more than other teams simply because of their ability to find talent.

 

[mcpw]

I don't have a problem with that. Both the Wings and the Jackets have enough interesting pieces to make a trade which doesn't involve a first round pick.

 

[jetkarma*]

I don't have a problem with that. Both the Wings and the Jackets have enough interesting pieces to make a trade which doesn't involve a first round pick.

I am not in the trade Buff camp,but if the return was enough thenany player is an option to be traded for me.

CBJ may be a good partner in a trade and one piece that may also really interest them is the pick at 25 . That is the upper end of where Roslovic has been projected ,being a local that would be a positive draft choice beyond just his ability ,which fits in that range .

They have 3 2nd's I believe so a couple of those could be included and Chevy has shown he can delay gratification by accepting picks a year down the road . Of course they also have some players that mesh pretty well.

 

[mcpw]

Latest rumor: CBJ trading #8+ for #3.
Are they down for two blockbusters? Hmmm..

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Money or Term, Pick one Buff, and lets get a solid deal done.

 

[Guilty Party]

With 3 on 3 overtime likely being added next year, i'm thinking the value of having Buff in the regular season lineup just went up.
Guy's got to be good for at least a couple of ROW's during 3 on 3. That should be fun to watch next year.

 

[Huffer]

I would argue though that someone who is a trade deadline acquisition usually costs more because of the lack of available players..... there are no free agents at all, nor are all teams willing to move players from their core if they are playoff bound..... playoff or fringe teams are also bidding for service more at that time in order to try and compete for the cup. I realize that this may go against common theory though....I would be curious to see and know the correlation of trade value from Deadline trades as opposed to those in free agency. Regardless, Holland has said in the past that he will not trade a first round pick for a one year rental player. He has however traded 2nd and 3rd round picks for rentals.

I'm open to trading a 1st though, as I feel Detroit has shown year after year they are able to draft high caliber players in late rounds. I think they are one if not the only team that can devalue their 1st round pick more than other teams simply because of their ability to find talent.

If it was the case then (hypothetically), that a team could get more at the TD then in the summer, then it would make more sense for the Jets to keep Buff until the TD where he could help get us into a playoff position and then move him. (Ignoring the difficulty in moving a guy when you're on a playoff run).

IMO, if there is already a pretty well established TD price, a team dealing a guy in the summer should be getting more, considering the acquiring team gets the benefit of that player for the entire season.

 

[ps241]

If it was the case then (hypothetically), that a team could get more at the TD then in the summer, then it would make more sense for the Jets to keep Buff until the TD where he could help get us into a playoff position and then move him. (Ignoring the difficulty in moving a guy when you're on a playoff run).

IMO, if there is already a pretty well established TD price, a team dealing a guy in the summer should be getting more, considering the acquiring team gets the benefit of that player for the entire season.

The primary risk is what if Buff is injured at the TD? That happened to us with Antropov.

 

[jetman]

I can't see us trading Buff at the TD if we are in a playoff spot or close to one.

Trading him or signing him now would be the best move. Otherwise we will be in the same position as we are now with Frolik.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Yes, to both above. I think we will know very soon what Buff's future with Winnipeg looks like.

 

[scelaton]

It is inconceivable to me that Buff is kept through the season and traded at the TD. His value would be lower, the risk of injury is higher...but, most importantly, the damage to the team's esprit de corps would be something management would simply not inflict. You don't trade a Buff or a Ladd at the TD unless your team is imploding.

Buff will be extended (67%) or traded (33%) in the next 90 days, IMO.

 

[Huffer]

The primary risk is what if Buff is injured at the TD? That happened to us with Antropov.

I can't see us trading Buff at the TD if we are in a playoff spot or close to one.

Trading him or signing him now would be the best move. Otherwise we will be in the same position as we are now with Frolik.

It is inconceivable to me that Buff is kept through the season and traded at the TD. His value would be lower, the risk of injury is higher...but, most importantly, the damage to the team's esprit de corps would be something management would simply not inflict. You don't trade a Buff or a Ladd at the TD unless your team is imploding.

Buff will be extended (67%) or traded (33%) in the next 90 days, IMO.

Agreed, I don't see any benefit, or scenario that makes sense in keeping Buff and moving him at the TD.

My only reason to even mention it (and I did as a hypothetical), is to try to illustrate that there has to be a benefit to a team trading a guy in the summer as to at the TD when the acquiring team gets that player for the entire season.

 

[gbill2004*]

I really hope Chevy trades Buff. The Jets are a better team without him.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

If it was the case then (hypothetically), that a team could get more at the TD then in the summer, then it would make more sense for the Jets to keep Buff until the TD where he could help get us into a playoff position and then move him. (Ignoring the difficulty in moving a guy when you're on a playoff run).

IMO, if there is already a pretty well established TD price, a team dealing a guy in the summer should be getting more, considering the acquiring team gets the benefit of that player for the entire season.

You are quite right that it should work that way ..... but I don't think it does. And you can't ignore that difficulty.

 

[surixon]

You are quite right that it should work that way ..... but I don't think it does. And you can't ignore that difficulty.

Well it looks like Goirdano's camp opened with a $9 million per year ask. Given that he's close to Buff in age and ability I think we can expect a similar opening demand from Buff. If Giordan gets a long term $8 million deal, Buff will likely be able to get one as well.

 

[KingBogo]

Well it looks like Goirdano's camp opened with a $9 million per year ask. Given that he's close to Buff in age and ability I think we can expect a similar opening demand from Buff. If Giordan gets a long term $8 million deal, Buff will likely be able to get one as well.

I would expect something in the neighborhood of 8X8 will be Buff's opening position.

 

[ps241]

Well it looks like Goirdano's camp opened with a $9 million per year ask. Given that he's close to Buff in age and ability I think we can expect a similar opening demand from Buff. If Giordan gets a long term $8 million deal, Buff will likely be able to get one as well.

Love Gio but he falls into the same catagory as Buff in my eyes. He is a great player but will be 32 this October and has basically missed 20 games on average in each of the last 3 full seasons (he did play the full strike shortened year).

Calgary is between a rock and a hard place but they would be nuts to go big money long term with him.

 

[Hawker14]

Is his body type, the type of long term committment a team wants to have tying up payroll, for years down the road or for an inflated annual rate ?

Absolutely not, imo.

All things being equal, Byfuglien's body isn't going to be holding up at 34-35, yet Ladd's might.

If the Jets can get a strong return for Byfuglien now in his prime, I hope they jump on it. He's no $7m/yr player. And he's not a player to build a team around. If he's not relegated to a second pairing defenceman or a third line forward ... he will be shortly.

Be smart with the organization's assets, instead of becoming infatuated with fandom.

 

[Habib21]

I would expect something in the neighborhood of 8X8 will be Buff's opening position.

If that is the case then count Detroit out. Those last few years of his career would be brutal with that cap hit. Perhaps why Detroit is avoiding it... and gives credence to my previous argument about Detroit not going after Buff if they weren't willing to pony up for Phaneuf.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Nearing the thread limit. Continue here: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1915797