Player Discussion Duncan Keith (II)

[McFlyingV]

He looked a lot better than Jones and a 3rd out there haha

He sure did. Jones looked like a #6 D on an AHL team last year.

 

[bobbythebrain]

1 game down, 19 more to go before unleash mercilessly on a handful of posters from the summer.

 

[Rengorlex]

He looked good tonight. I watched around 6 games from Keith during the off season and he looked at least decent in all of them. Definitely still an NHL player and hopefully he can be a good 2nd pairing defenceman. That's a must if the team wants to proceed..

 

[Little Fury]

Some good and some bad one game in, nothing egregious but you can definitely see he's lost a step.

Not related to him, per se, but the Oilers are going to give up a lot of zone time this year if the D as a unit continues to cede the blueline to the other team on every rush.

 

[5 14 6 1]

Guy played pretty damn well game 1.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Myers laid him out good!

It's about time that Myers used his size. For a guy his size he's a p***y.

 

[Marty McSurly]

Myers laid him out good!

Closest you guys will get to knowing what a Stanley Cup feels like.

Enjoy!

 

[Bank Shot]

Some good and some bad one game in, nothing egregious but you can definitely see he's lost a step.

Not related to him, per se, but the Oilers are going to give up a lot of zone time this year if the D as a unit continues to cede the blueline to the other team on every rush.

If its an odd man rush the D has to concede the blueline. A lot of this is on the forwards as well. The RNH line outshot Vancouver 2 to 1 at ES last night. Largely in part because all three are good defensive players with strong work ethic.

There wasn't a lot of back pressure from the first line on the backcheck.

 

[LTIR]

He is no OEL but he is good enough for what we need.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Some good and some bad one game in, nothing egregious but you can definitely see he's lost a step.

Not related to him, per se, but the Oilers are going to give up a lot of zone time this year if the D as a unit continues to cede the blueline to the other team on every rush.

Analytically, Keith and Ceci were the best on the ice in terms of getting the puck out of the defensive zone

 

[Little Fury]

If its an odd man rush the D has to concede the blueline. A lot of this is on the forwards as well. The RNH line outshot Vancouver 2 to 1 at ES last night. Largely in part because all three are good defensive players with strong work ethic.

There wasn't a lot of back pressure from the first line on the backcheck.

It's every rush. They're obviously being coached to give up the blueline and collapse towards the goal. I think that's partly a concession to the fact that they have too many guys back there who would get beat one-on-one if they stepped up.

 

[Little Fury]

Analytically, Keith and Ceci were the best on the ice in terms of getting the puck out of the defensive zone

Source?

 

[Mr Sakich]

Analytically, Keith and Ceci were the best on the ice in terms of getting the puck out of the defensive zone

I am convinced that situation (TOI, linemates, Q of competition, Q of coaching etc) play a very large role in what a players' analytics are. I do not think that current analytic models give enough respect to those types of factors. Last year, Keith was one of the 2 or 3 worst dmen in the league according to the leading models. Dom Leschyschn had our 2nd paring ranked 29th in the league.

The players did not change, their situation did. When Keith and Ceci turn into average or better 2nd pairing guys, the nerds will be forced to evaluate their models. This is not a bad thing. Analytics will improve

 

[soothsayer]

It's every rush. They're obviously being coached to give up the blueline and collapse towards the goal. I think that's partly a concession to the fact that they have too many guys back there who would get beat one-on-one if they stepped up.

I noticed this too and didn't like it. But even Nurse did it.

 

[Forgot About Drai]

I thought eye test wise they looked very shaky first 10ish minutes and then settled in. If they play like they did yesterday all year I will be eating some serious crow.

Fair play to Keith yesterday. He is still decently slick w/ the puck

 

[Little Fury]

I noticed this too and didn't like it. But even Nurse did it.

That's why I'm saying it's a coaching strategy. Nucks generated a few chances by bringing the puck in, holding up and hitting the trailer coming in with speed. Can't be sagging back without backside pressure from the forwards.

 

[joestevens29]

I noticed this too and didn't like it. But even Nurse did it.

At the end of the day Vancouver does have some dangerous shooters. Guys you don't exactly want to step up and get burned by.

Realistically a lot of teams are doing this. Force guys to the outside and force them to either make an amazing play or make a low danger play.

 

[soothsayer]

That's why I'm saying it's a coaching strategy. Nucks generated a few chances by bringing the puck in, holding up and hitting the trailer coming in with speed. Can't be sagging back without backside pressure from the forwards.

Right, but I'm not sure why the strategy applied to a guy like Nurse, who can cover a lot of ice extremely quickly. But there was definitely one instance where he clearly ceded ice to the attacking forward even though he could have clearly closed the gap.

 

[soothsayer]

At the end of the day Vancouver does have some dangerous shooters. Guys you don't exactly want to step up and get burned by.

Realistically a lot of teams are doing this. Force guys to the outside and force them to either make an amazing play or make a low danger play.

I was seeing them not push the attacking forwards to the outside though. They were just giving up all of the ice below the blue line while they slunk closer to Smith. I know Vancouver has some dangerous shooters, which is another reason the tactic bothered me. Petterson is one guy who can beat goalies cleanly from the top of the circle, so it doesn't make a lot of sense for the the Oilers D to give him that space.

 

[DingerMcSlapshot]

I noticed this too and didn't like it. But even Nurse did it.

The D only started conceding after they started getting walked around.

 

[CornKicker]

It's every rush. They're obviously being coached to give up the blueline and collapse towards the goal. I think that's partly a concession to the fact that they have too many guys back there who would get beat one-on-one if they stepped up.

its a 2 part strategy, if there is strong back pressure they are supposed to attack and force towards the backchecker, you saw it mostly with the 2nd line last night and few times with the foegele/ryan line. if there isnt back pressure you have to give up the line because teams dont dump it in, at least vancouver doesnt and 2 you have to buy time for the back pressure to get to the 3rd attacker. limit the high danger and wait for help.

 

[soothsayer]

The D only started conceding after they started getting walked around.

I don't recall Nurse getting walked. . .

 

[CornKicker]

its also tactical, outside of a couple guys vancouver isnt a threat from outside. so let that tape go out and as soon as you have a team thinking they can just take the line aka a vegas you pinch up and smother them, ive seen it both ways but the strategy early in the season seems to be limit high danger

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Some good and some bad one game in, nothing egregious but you can definitely see he's lost a step.

Not related to him, per se, but the Oilers are going to give up a lot of zone time this year if the D as a unit continues to cede the blueline to the other team on every rush.

When the player is going wide you cede the blue line and quickly angle him off while your partner picks up the opponent F2 and your F1 picks up any trailer.

That is how defence is properly played.

And Kieth is a master of this.

 

[Oilhawks]

I don't recall Nurse getting walked. . .

Don’t worry about him, he forgot he wasn’t on his favourite team’s echo chamber website that shares initials with a certain kind of predatory behaviour