Proposal: Ducks-Leafs

MMC

Global Moderator
May 11, 2014
48,442
39,411
Orange County, CA
:ducks

Kasperi Kapanen
Jeremy Bracco
Michael Hutchinson

:leafs

Ryan Miller
Nick Ritchie

Ducks turn Ritchie in to two young wingers, let Stolarz/Hutchinson be the NHL backup for the rest of the season. Leafs gets Ritchie who fits their needs more than Kapanen and a big upgrade at backup.
 

Flyer lurker

Registered User
Feb 16, 2019
9,752
12,571
:ducks

Kasperi Kapanen
Jeremy Bracco
Michael Hutchinson

:leafs

Ryan Miller
Nick Ritchie

Ducks turn Ritchie in to two young wingers, let Stolarz/Hutchinson be the NHL backup for the rest of the season. Leafs gets Ritchie who fits their needs more than Kapanen and a big upgrade at backup.

Thank you for putting a legit Leafs backup goalie offer. And if Miller if ok to play out the year then its smart for both sides and cap wise. Well done! Guessing Leafs fan say no.
 

Morgs

#16 #34 #44 #88 #91
Jul 12, 2015
19,546
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London, ON
No thanks, not much interest in trading Kapanen whatsoever, let alone for a downgrade on forward (no offense to Ritchie) and a backup.
 

Fogelhund

Registered User
Sep 15, 2007
21,313
23,798
:ducks

Kasperi Kapanen
Jeremy Bracco
Michael Hutchinson

:leafs

Ryan Miller
Nick Ritchie

Ducks turn Ritchie in to two young wingers, let Stolarz/Hutchinson be the NHL backup for the rest of the season. Leafs gets Ritchie who fits their needs more than Kapanen and a big upgrade at backup.

I don't think it's a terrible proposal by any stretch. My challenge is shipping out two RW's, and getting one LW back. I'd prefer to move a LW in such a deal, and switch Bracco for Timashov.

I'd also kindly request that you just throw in Manson please... Ok, I know your not going to do it, but he'd fill a huge need.


Still, that's quite a bit of skill to send out, for Ritchie's grit, and 2/3 of a year of a backup goalie. I think the cost is too high really, but it isn't terrible.

Johnsson + Hutch for Ritchie + Miller... I'd be good with.
Johnsson + Kapanen + Ceci + Hutch + Timashov for Ritchie + Miller + Manson + Comtois I'd do.
 
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Flyer lurker

Registered User
Feb 16, 2019
9,752
12,571
Everyone knows Leafs need goalie bad and squeeze out every ounce of juice from the orange. Without a move you either a) forfeit a lot of points from your backup, pray you make playoffs. b) you play Anderson 70+ games. he is burned out come playoff time and you lose in 5 come playoff time. Without a goalie move you are D.O.A. So yes you slightly over pay if above proposal. But it sure is better than missing playoffs and realizing as you watch all the defensemen walk out the door in the off season, how horribly mismanaged the Leafs truly are.
 
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Funk21

Registered User
Mar 6, 2013
4,345
1,869
Toronto
:ducks

Kasperi Kapanen
Jeremy Bracco
Michael Hutchinson

:leafs

Ryan Miller
Nick Ritchie

Ducks turn Ritchie in to two young wingers, let Stolarz/Hutchinson be the NHL backup for the rest of the season. Leafs gets Ritchie who fits their needs more than Kapanen and a big upgrade at backup.

Leafs are not trading Kapanen, not sure how many times this needs to be said. Especially for a 40 year old goalie and a kid who can’t score more than 30 points.

Don’t get me wrong I like Ritchie but not at the expense of Kap. AJ plus pick or Bracco for Ritchie and Miller sure.
 

TheGroceryStick

Registered User
Jan 19, 2009
13,747
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Ontario Canada
Everyone knows Leafs need goalie bad and squeeze out every ounce of juice from the orange. Without a move you either a) forfeit a lot of points from your backup, pray you make playoffs. b) you play Anderson 70+ games. he is burned out come playoff time and you lose in 5 come playoff time. Without a goalie move you are D.O.A. So yes you slightly over pay if above proposal. But it sure is better than missing playoffs and realizing as you watch all the defensemen walk out the door in the off season, how horribly mismanaged the Leafs truly are.
So our "doomsday" is now shifted to our backup goalie? Hahah rich!

We will figure that minimal acquisition out; dont you worry your pretty little head.
 

TBF1972

Registered User
May 19, 2018
7,877
6,319
I don't think it's a terrible proposal by any stretch. My challenge is shipping out two RW's, and getting one LW back. I'd prefer to move a LW in such a deal, and switch Bracco for Timashov.

I'd also kindly request that you just throw in Manson please... Ok, I know your not going to do it, but he'd fill a huge need.


Still, that's quite a bit of skill to send out, for Ritchie's grit, and 2/3 of a year of a backup goalie. I think the cost is too high really, but it isn't terrible.

Johnsson + Hutch for Ritchie + Miller... I'd be good with.
Johnsson + Kapanen + Ceci + Hutch + Timashov for Ritchie + Miller + Manson + Comtois I'd do.

Really? You would offer Kapanen + Ceci + Timashov for Manson +Comtois. Kind of you, but Anaheim wouldn't do Comtois for Timashov or Manson for Kapanen and I hardly believe Ceci pays the difference.
 

Paul4587

Registered User
Jan 26, 2006
31,163
13,179
Ritchie is IMO better than Kapanen and is on a much better contract. Miller isn’t going out East and Hutchinson is horrible. Is Bracco enough to make the deal work from all sides? I doubt it.
 
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Tit

Toast and jam
Sep 23, 2018
500
299
Let me think about that for a minute...
NO.

This is horrible for the leafs.
 

Nizdizzle

Offseason Is The Worst Season
Jul 7, 2007
13,861
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Windsor, Ontario
twitter.com
Ritchie is IMO better than Kapanen and is on a much better contract. Miller isn’t going out East and Hutchinson is horrible. Is Bracco enough to make the deal work from all sides? I doubt it.
In what aspect is Ritchie better? Kapanen has scored 29 fewer points in 111 fewer games. Kapanen PKs. Kapanen can play anywhere in the lineup and is blazing fast. What does Ritchie bring besides being physical?
 

Paul4587

Registered User
Jan 26, 2006
31,163
13,179
In what aspect is Ritchie better? Kapanen has scored 29 fewer points in 111 fewer games. Kapanen PKs. Kapanen can play anywhere in the lineup and is blazing fast. What does Ritchie bring besides being physical?

Last year their per game production was very similar despite Kapanen playing on a significantly better offensive team. This season Kapanen has produced more but Ritchie has excellent underlying numbers and has been unlucky in terms of his shooting percentage as he’s getting plenty of chances that just aren’t going in. Ritchie is also an excellent playmaker in close to the net and a physical force.

If Ritchie moved to Toronto and got to play with all of the offensive talent there I have no doubt his production would see a good bump. The same concept going the other way - if Kapanen moved to Anaheim his production would not be nearly as high as it is in Toronto.

I can certainly see the argument that Kapanen is better. I personally don’t agree and when factoring in contracts it’s a no brainer who I rather have.

edit: it’s also ridiculous to compare career numbers when Ritchie came in to the NHL at 19 when he clearly wasn’t ready and was buried down the depth chart.
 
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TOGuy14

Registered User
Dec 30, 2010
12,064
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Toronto
No from this Leafs fan. Not moving Kapanen for a big downgrade at forward and a 39 year old backup goalie
 

Fogelhund

Registered User
Sep 15, 2007
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Last year their per game production was very similar despite Kapanen playing on a significantly better offensive team. This season Kapanen has produced more but Ritchie has excellent underlying numbers and has been unlucky in terms of his shooting percentage as he’s getting plenty of chances that just aren’t going in. Ritchie is also an excellent playmaker in close to the net and a physical force.

If Ritchie moved to Toronto and got to play with all of the offensive talent there I have no doubt his production would see a good bump. The same concept going the other way - if Kapanen moved to Anaheim his production would not be nearly as high as it is in Toronto.

I can certainly see the argument that Kapanen is better. I personally don’t agree and when factoring in contracts it’s a no brainer who I rather have.

edit: it’s also ridiculous to compare career numbers when Ritchie came in to the NHL at 19 when he clearly wasn’t ready and was buried down the depth chart.


On the flipside, if Kapanen was in Anaheim, he might get PP1 time and have increased production, while Ritchie wouldn't get PP1 time in Toronto, and see his production drop.

Last year, Kap had 39 EV points, while Ritchie had 22.
 

Fogelhund

Registered User
Sep 15, 2007
21,313
23,798
Really? You would offer Kapanen + Ceci + Timashov for Manson +Comtois. Kind of you, but Anaheim wouldn't do Comtois for Timashov or Manson for Kapanen and I hardly believe Ceci pays the difference.

So what is it, that you'd be looking for to bridge, what you feel is the difference there?
 
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LeafGrief

Shambles in my brain
Apr 10, 2015
7,618
9,537
Ottawa
Ritchie would be a nice player to have, but I wouldn't be the slightest bit interested in downgrading from Kapanen just to add Ryan Miller. Kapanen has 70% more points than Ritchie, ain't no amount of physicality going to make up for that gap, and Nick Ritchie isn't going to see a huge scoring bump playing with Kerfoot, Spezza, and Gauthier as his centres in the bottom six lol.
 

ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
74,039
39,799
:ducks

Kasperi Kapanen
Jeremy Bracco
Michael Hutchinson

:leafs

Ryan Miller
Nick Ritchie

Ducks turn Ritchie in to two young wingers, let Stolarz/Hutchinson be the NHL backup for the rest of the season. Leafs gets Ritchie who fits their needs more than Kapanen and a big upgrade at backup.
Switch Kapanen for Johnsson and I'd do it.
 

DougGilmour93

Registered User
Feb 7, 2007
7,395
702
:ducks

Kasperi Kapanen
Jeremy Bracco
Michael Hutchinson

:leafs

Ryan Miller
Nick Ritchie

Ducks turn Ritchie in to two young wingers, let Stolarz/Hutchinson be the NHL backup for the rest of the season. Leafs gets Ritchie who fits their needs more than Kapanen and a big upgrade at backup.
Leafs give up too much. Not a bad basis though.
 

TBF1972

Registered User
May 19, 2018
7,877
6,319
So what is it, that you'd be looking for to bridge, what you feel is the difference there?
I am not very familiar with Anaheim. But from other discussions in the off-season I got the impression, that Comtois is their highest rated wing prospect, who combines size with goal scoring. He already left traces in the NHL at a very young age and still has another year on ELC next season. Timashov despite being more than 2 years older, just made his first steps in the NHL this season. I would say there's a substantial value gap.
Comparing Kapanen and Mason is difficult, as they play completely different positions. In general RHD with the ability to play on the first pairing are in high demand. Even more so for Anaheim, which traded away Montur and Vatanen in the last two years and have no alternatives for Manson on their roster. While they for sure would like to add Kapanen, it would not be at the expense of Manson.
Ceci is a RHD, but Ottawa was eager to get rid of him, Dubas didn't want to commit for more than 1 year and on HFB he is in most TML trade proposals. I don't associate a lot of positive trade value with him. Best case he is not considered a cap dump. I fully understand why he is included in your proposal as TML is up against the cap and there are very few contracts alternatives available.

In short, there is no solution to the riddle. The only pieces Toronto could substitute Ceci and Kapanen with (which also would be of interest for Anaheim), are the once you don't want to trade: Rielly, Nylander, Marner, Matthews. Muzzin's age, term and handiness doesn't make him a fit. You might could try to add Sandin or Liljegren at the trade deadline, when Anaheim is clearly out of the PO race and I know Toronto blocks, when Sandin is mentioned and I doubt Anaheim would bite with Liljegren. Ergo: Mason remains a Duck.
 

Fogelhund

Registered User
Sep 15, 2007
21,313
23,798
I am not very familiar with Anaheim. But from other discussions in the off-season I got the impression, that Comtois is their highest rated wing prospect, who combines size with goal scoring. He already left traces in the NHL at a very young age and still has another year on ELC next season. Timashov despite being more than 2 years older, just made his first steps in the NHL this season. I would say there's a substantial value gap.
Comparing Kapanen and Mason is difficult, as they play completely different positions. In general RHD with the ability to play on the first pairing are in high demand. Even more so for Anaheim, which traded away Montur and Vatanen in the last two years and have no alternatives for Manson on their roster. While they for sure would like to add Kapanen, it would not be at the expense of Manson.
Ceci is a RHD, but Ottawa was eager to get rid of him, Dubas didn't want to commit for more than 1 year and on HFB he is in most TML trade proposals. I don't associate a lot of positive trade value with him. Best case he is not considered a cap dump. I fully understand why he is included in your proposal as TML is up against the cap and there are very few contracts alternatives available.

In short, there is no solution to the riddle. The only pieces Toronto could substitute Ceci and Kapanen with (which also would be of interest for Anaheim), are the once you don't want to trade: Rielly, Nylander, Marner, Matthews. Muzzin's age, term and handiness doesn't make him a fit. You might could try to add Sandin or Liljegren at the trade deadline, when Anaheim is clearly out of the PO race and I know Toronto blocks, when Sandin is mentioned and I doubt Anaheim would bite with Liljegren. Ergo: Mason remains a Duck.

I added Timashov, because in my trade both Comtois, and Ritchie are LW, so there is a loss of two LW.... you've got Johnsson, and Timashov coming in as replacements.

Comparing when players enter the league, across various teams can be difficult. When you've got teams that are very deep in certain positions, and value overseasoning in the minors, it's going to take players longer to make the NHL. The age when they enter the NHL, shouldn't determine their value. Right now, the Leafs prefer to keep players in the AHL, to maximize their learning. I'm not going to trying and sell the idea that Timashov is an incredible prospect, but I think under the right circumstances, he's a 30ish point guy, third line energy winger. The addition was to balance out LW out, with LW in.

Ceci has actually been decent with the Leafs, not great, but better than expected. I've included him, as the Ducks are in need of RHD. In reality, there is little chance that they move Manson, but even for fantasy purposes, there is no chance that they move him, without a RHD coming back. Earlier I might have included Barrie in the equation, but frankly he's been great since the coaching change, PPG and been our best D (at least offensively) IMO, Barrie's value with an extension, would exceed that of Manson's.
 

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