Duchene Trade Still Good Value Minus the OTT 1st?

[JLo217]

Bad trade
We still don't know what we have in Kamenev or Bowers but they are not top end players. Duchene straight for Girard, weeell, no one trades 1C for a 4D.
But that 1st pick changes everything so it is a great trade. Kaapo come on down!

I thought I was moody and all over the place you're just flat out negative in general.

 

[Pokecheque]

I really don't get why you guys just keep taking the bait.

 

[BleedWell]

I thought I was moody and all over the place you're just flat out negative in general.

You be the Moody and I'll be the Blues.

 

[McMetal]

I really don't get why you guys just keep taking the bait.

Not everybody reads this place every day, so every day some new fish comes along who doesn't know about the bait.

 

[AvsWraith]

Yes, it's still a great trade.

Imagine our team without Girard in there. The mobility, the quickness, and he is already the best passing D on the team.

Plus, he hasn't yet achieved all that he can be. Nashville always drafts great defensemen, and I'm really glad we got one of them.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Kamenev will be a good player, as long as he stays healthy. I think people are selling him short now.

Excellent trade even without the first round pick. You can't expect to get 100% for a player with one year left on their contract. We got great return.

 

[wayninja]

I have a feeling that labelling Girard as a 4D, might be selling him a little short.

He's making fantastic progress.

Potentially, but only that. Right now 4D is where his play is at. He's got a higher ceiling than that to be sure, but that's a fair assessment of him right now.

 

[Mac2Rants]

I kind of already see him as a #3 on more the mid range of #3s

 

[Echo Roku]

Wouldnt this make a lot more sense if the premise was... “if the pick was mid to late 20s like originally intended”?

 

[AvsFan29]

Potentially, but only that. Right now 4D is where his play is at. He's got a higher ceiling than that to be sure, but that's a fair assessment of him right now.

Well he's played a lot of top pairing minutes, with only Johnson and Barrie ahead of him.

Barries extra time is probably due to more PP time.

He's been fantastic, and he's 20.

 

[WarriorOfGandhi]

 

[Mac2Rants]

We'll he's played a lot of top pairing minutes, with only Johnson and Barrie ahead of him.

Barries extra time is probably due to more PP time.

He's been fantastic, and he's 20.

Yes, its due to the PP Girard is 3rd in overall ev mins. Behind only Mac and Johnson

 

[Pokecheque]

Not everybody reads this place every day, so every day some new fish comes along who doesn't know about the bait.

I dunno, I see some grizzled vets still getting into it. But whatever...no skin off my back. I literally can't follow the conversation anyway.

 

[Avsboy]

Without the first the deal isn't great, not bad, but not great. It boils down to A-/B+ prospect, B+ prospect, reclamation project, cap dump and magic bean picks.... so two major future pieces. Usually par in those cases. With the first, it ends up 3 major future pieces... which is usually up in those cases. I'm not sure Girard is going to be a top pairing guy which is who you'd trade a #1C (the collective view on Duchene, not mine) for directly in a pure hockey trade, so Girard for Duchene easily slants to Duchene. It is just the Bowers and Ottawa pick pieces that combine to slant it to the Avs by a good margin.

Girard would have been an A-/A prospect at this point since he has panned out remarkably well and that alone makes the Duchene trade a good trade. Girard for Duchene is good value. Then there's the extra players...a good haul, even without the pick.

 

[Mac2Rants]

At the time of the trade if we only got the picks and players Minus OTTs 1st I wouldn't have been to happy, but I would do Girard for Dutchy straight up ATM

 

[henchman21]

Girard would have been an A-/A prospect at this point since he has panned out remarkably well and that alone makes the Duchene trade a good trade. Girard for Duchene is good value. Then there's the extra players...a good haul, even without the pick.

An A/A- prospect is a guy who is a sure thing top liner/top pairing (A) or is more likely that not to be a top liner/pairing and should be counted on (A-). I think Girard is more likely to top out as a #3 than a #2. Therefore, to me, more a B+ sort of guy than an A-... but get the debate. Bowers to be is likely to be a 2nd liner so he's a B+ IMO, but some would say he has a chance just not something you'd want to count on (B). When those terms get tossed around A/B/C get tossed around, A's are the very high end guys. B's are the middle lineup, C's are depth/longshot.

IE Makar at his draft point and freshman season would have been an A- sort of guy, with his development he is an A guy now. The Avs are counting on him being a legit top pairing guy in their future projections. Any team asking for him in a trade would be projecting that too. Whereas Kaut is a pure B/B+ sort of guy depending how you see him. His floor is probably of a 3rd liner, but his ceiling is probably a good 2nd liner. How likely that projection is where he'd slot in people's +/-.

 

[Hasbro]

Girard would have been good salvage value on a distressed asset.

Girard + Bowers turning into a good 3rd liner is break even.

So if you want to turn Ottawa’s pick into Alex Alexeyev or not, there’s at least the opportunity to turn Kamenev and the other three draft picks into something.

This is also two guys on ELC versus a player that will be a UFA this offseason.

 

[mapletreemarty]

Value is really good but Until I am proven different Ottawa won the trade. Now don't get me wrong over years value can sway wins and loses in trades. To this day dutchy is the best player in the trade. In my mind whoever gets the best player wins a trade. Most gm's don't care near as much as hf does about draft picks and prospects. The tenure of a gm is usaually not as secure as sakics. If they can get a player they think makes them better they go for it. For better or worse.

Getting Duchene sure made them better.......

 

[LieutenantDangle]

I just don’t understand the repetitive exercises on these boards to try and look at the duchene trade or the oreilly trade in a vacuum. Holding onto top end players nearing ufa who are either unlikely to resign or asking for a trade ought to be moved, and won’t return the same value as players with more controllable contract years. A duchene level player on an elc would fetch far more than duchene with 2 years to free agency. Additionally calling duchene a 1c is a stretch.

 

[armedequation]

Like I said they are nothing until proven other wise.
You wanted my personal guarantee here it is:
Kamenev will be our reliable third C when we win the cup two or three years from now.
Bowers will be abust and will never be a regular in our NHL roster
Girard will be our 4D in that cup team.
There you go!

Technically speaking that puts hughes and kakko on the same level....according to you....just saying.


In my opinion you cant leave an integral piece out of the equation if its the part of the topic of discussion. 3 prospects and multiple picks seems like way more than fair value considering duchene was disgruntled. Especially when considering the fact that hes not even with the team we got everything from still buts thats just my opinion

Also to say gms dont care about prospects and draft picks is just plain nuts....thats an aspect of their job. Not just to win now but to set them up for the future

 

[cgf]

If we were getting the late 20s 1st that everyone expected at the time of the trade; the value would've been fine...but some of us would still be bitching about Joe not having pulled the trigger on Chabot+Zibby...

 

[The Kingslayer]

If we were getting the late 20s 1st that everyone expect at the time of the trade; the value would've been fine...but some of us would still be *****ing about Joe not having pulled the trigger on Chabot+Zibby...

Chabot would have been an amazing get. We could have packaged him for Leon.

 

[tigervixxxen]

At the time it would have been disappointing to not get a first included. Girard was a rising prospect but there was skepticism about his NHL readiness at the time. Now I'd easily do the trade for Girard alone. 150+ NHL games under his belt before his 21st birthday taking on top competition and looking like a key piece of the team for the next 10+ years.

 

[shadow1]

No doubt. Girard + Bowers alone would have been "good" value, in hindsight.

But getting what we hope is a solid NHLer in Kamenev, along with a 2nd and 3rd round pick, is the cherry on top.

 

[Ivan13]

I love how some have already written off Bowers.