varsaku
Registered User
I'm sure the Leafs would be quick to decline a team joining within their market. So i don't see Hamilton every happening.
Dreger: NHL expansion fee could be $2 billion
- Thread starter MMC
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Times have changed & NHL. team in Hamilton will not put even a dent in the Leafs revenue in fact it would most likely be the thing that gives the Leafs the kick in the ass they need to get them over the hump in the playoffs .
Hamilton is just to much of a gold mine for the NHL. ignore much longer that is why once the renovations are complete in 2025 & with the right ownership the NHL. will give Hamilton that NHL. team that it deserves despite what the leafs think .
Hamilton is just to much of a gold mine for the NHL. ignore much longer that is why once the renovations are complete in 2025 & with the right ownership the NHL. will give Hamilton that NHL. team that it deserves despite what the leafs think .
Atlanta has failed twice far from a lucrative HOCKEY market & I recall Gary Bettmen saying an NHL. team in Hamilton would be a top 5 market just wait & see there will be an NHL. team in Hamilton by 2030 .
edog37
Registered User
I’m sure the Leafs feel a lot differently about their revenues. Hamilton isn’t getting a team bro. Neither is QC. The first because of Toronto/Buffalo, the second because of Jeremy Jacobs & market size. The league already signaled it wants bigger markets. Atlanta, Houston fit that mold. QC & Hamilton do not.
Where have you been do you got your head up your ass first of all that old fart Jeremy Jacobs is out of the pitcher he is retired 2nd Hamilton is a large market with a population of 800.0000 & if you include the areas outside of the city such as Guelph , Brantford , Kitchener\Waterloo , London ect. that number rises to 3 million not a small market also an arena will be all set to go in 2025 after major renovations are complete & let me makes this clear this would be regional team for the GTHA .
The NHL. is not going to give Atlanta a 3rd chance they failed twice that is it they had there chances tough luck as for Houston they are going to get an NHL. team it just a matter of by either expansion or relocated coyotes franchise I tend to think it is going to be the coyotes moving to Houston .
The NHL. is not going to give Atlanta a 3rd chance they failed twice that is it they had there chances tough luck as for Houston they are going to get an NHL. team it just a matter of by either expansion or relocated coyotes franchise I tend to think it is going to be the coyotes moving to Houston .
Hamilton (GTHA regional team) - expansion
Houston-expansion\relocation
Kansas City - expansion (only if Houston gets the coyotes)
GTHA's population is around 6 - 8 million that spells big money for the NHL . if they put a team in Hamilton which most likely be called Ontario .
Houston-expansion\relocation
Kansas City - expansion (only if Houston gets the coyotes)
GTHA's population is around 6 - 8 million that spells big money for the NHL . if they put a team in Hamilton which most likely be called Ontario .
Headshot77
Bad Photoshopper
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I think the best course of action for this decade of the NHL would be to:
2024 - Relocate Arizona to QC and they temporarily play in the west
2026 - Expand to Atlanta
2028 - Expand to a western conference city
2030 - Expand to a western conference city
2032 - Expand to Arizona 2.0
Those western conference cities could be any two of Houston, San Diego, Portland, or Salt Lake City. It's a bumpy road but eventually everyone wins.
36 teams
18/18 conference divide
QC gets a franchise
AZ gets their much needed reset
2024 - Relocate Arizona to QC and they temporarily play in the west
2026 - Expand to Atlanta
2028 - Expand to a western conference city
2030 - Expand to a western conference city
2032 - Expand to Arizona 2.0
Those western conference cities could be any two of Houston, San Diego, Portland, or Salt Lake City. It's a bumpy road but eventually everyone wins.
36 teams
18/18 conference divide
QC gets a franchise
AZ gets their much needed reset
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Everything is based on arena and owner.
Houston, comes down to Tilman Fertitia and whether he will pay the expansion fee which is now much greater than when he balked at the price a couple of years ago. If he's still not interested in the price the NHL wants, there are only 2 real options for the NHL to get into that market. Either Fertitia sells the Rockets and thus you have someone else to work with or another party builds a new arena in the "burbs" of Houston.
Portland - currently still part of the estate of the late Paul Allen. Going to be sold, just a matter of time. $4 billion for team and arena, possibly more. Then if you add in the NHL team, pushing $6 bill if the NHL wants closer to $2 bill for a team. Arena is ready to go, but like Houston, depends on the new owner of the team/building. I don't see Portland as a large enough market that someone would build another arena to compete with the Moda Center.
SD - working on a new arena. Current target capacity 16K, but say it's expandable to 18K. Main thing for the NHL is to keep an eye on it and be in touch with the developer, and Kroenke, the Avs owner is part of the development group, so easy for the NHL to talk to him. This new arena has to be built and configured to support an NHL team, not designed like Nets, Warriors, Jazz, Suns arena that is basketball specific and only holds 14K of fans for hockey.
Utah - need a new arena as it's not NHL compatible. Building built in 1991. PHX would have torn theirs down and rebuilt a new one vs try to retrofit it for the NHL. Probably has to be the same for Utah. Or built on another site.
ATL - working on a new arena in the burbs. Probably requires the NHL awarding them a team before they get the greenlight to proceed with the development from the city/county.
QC - arena ready to go. Who is going to own the team and do they have the money to do so. Then its really the NHL's appetite to return to QC.
Headshot77
Bad Photoshopper
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I agree with those assessments. I think SLC and SD are the most likely cities out of that list. SLC has the owner and they intend to build several new venues for the Olympics. SD is going to have the arena soon and they only need to compete with baseball which is ideal for the NHL. Plus another team in California never hurts.
MMC
Global Moderator
Would there be enough fan support for the NHL to someday have both a second GTA team AND a Hamilton team?
I’m not exactly for expansion, but the talent pool argument is laughable. The talent pool is much sept than the 70’s/80’s/early 90’s when the league went through rapid expansion (plus wha in the 70’s). A big reason for the “dead puck” era (besides modern trained goalies coming up into the league in rapid fashion from 94-97) is that the talent pool coming into the league (in the form of the iron curtain falling + seeping US player pool) outpaced expansion.
It wasn’t a coincidence that goals per game ticked up when Vegas and Seattle came into the league.
It wasn’t a coincidence that goals per game ticked up when Vegas and Seattle came into the league.
Leafs will never allow 2nd team in Toronto but a 2nd regional team based in Hamilton that would it be far enough away that they will be fine with it consider the region it would serve would be Guelph , Kitchener , Brantford even as far as London .
Plus with brand new renovated FOC. in Hamilton which would have brand new everything from luxury boxes to increased capacity to over 19.000 so this arena be NHL. ready by 2025
Plus with brand new renovated FOC. in Hamilton which would have brand new everything from luxury boxes to increased capacity to over 19.000 so this arena be NHL. ready by 2025
mouser
Business of Hockey
You're lying to yourself if you think the Leafs would be fine with a team in Hamilton.
All of Hamilton and Guelph are in the Leafs defined home territory. Kitchener and Brantford are also partially or fully inside the Leafs home territory.
KevFu
Registered User
No one is forgetting that at all.
Any Hamilton owner who can successfully cut a deal with the Leafs for the territory would instantly be approved by the NHL.
But the Leafs agreeing to that is about as likely as... you know what, I have no smart-alec simile here. I can't think of any kind of crazy thing less likely than MLSE agreeing to a Hamilton franchise. There's realistic scenarios where the most capitalist of rich guys start people philanthropists. Taylor Swift losing her popularity among millennial women is the closest thing I got, but her falling in love with some guy that splinters her fan base is way more plausible.
Hamilton isn't competing with anyone for an NHL expansion team. The NHL isn't the one who's saying no. It's 100% the Toronto Maple Leafs keeping Hamilton from getting a team.
You guys are living like 30 years in the past thing have changed population has gotten bigger there is more demand just look at teams like the rangers , islanders , devils look how close they are you want another example kings & ducks & they all do just fine may I add this MLSE. is not a publicly traded company anymore it is owned by Rodgers & Bell now that changes things .
Also you have have look at the population of Hamilton at around 800.000 right now & when you include the GHA. (greater Hamilton area) it is around 3 million that is a pretty big market & that is just GHA. when you add the T to it making it the GTHA. you got about 8 million that is a huge market that can support a regional team in the area based in Hamilton & again look at the teams I mentioned at the top .
Also you have have look at the population of Hamilton at around 800.000 right now & when you include the GHA. (greater Hamilton area) it is around 3 million that is a pretty big market & that is just GHA. when you add the T to it making it the GTHA. you got about 8 million that is a huge market that can support a regional team in the area based in Hamilton & again look at the teams I mentioned at the top .
BKIslandersFan
F*** off
It does not matter whether GTA can support 2nd team or not. Its clear Leafs and to a lesser extent, Sabres, do not want a 2nd GTA team.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
Yeah no one really denies that a second team can be supported there. Poster is trying to sell us on something we know.
varsaku
Registered User
MLSE has no incentive to agree to breaking up the monopoly they have on that region. Rodgers & Bell stand to lose a lot in the long run if new team ends up being successful and drawing away many future generations of fans to that team.
I'm sure it has been noted in another thread but on a recent 32 Thoughts Friedman points out the NHL is of the opinion they can expand more based on US Market penetration. The NHL has the advantage of relevant Canadian markets.
So the argument is that they're only in 25 US cities and could further expand to compare to the NBA and MLB comparison.
So the argument is that they're only in 25 US cities and could further expand to compare to the NBA and MLB comparison.
AtlantaWhaler
Thrash/Preds/Sabres
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But you just mentioned QC as a team.
Also, just looking at growth, you mentioned Hamilton hitting a million people. At the current rate of growth, Hamiliton will hit a million people sometime around 2060.
Surprised the Thrashers folks haven't thrown back that Hamilton used to have a NHL team, too.
Headshot77
Bad Photoshopper
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It's a very limited asset that is "guaranteed" to appreciate in value. Plus if they announce it as $2bil and the new teams get in for $1bil the new owner will feel like they got a "deal".
I'm of the opinion that all these franchise values are a massive bubble and at some point the values will collapse.
TheLegend
Megathread Gadfly
Another way you can look at it is they have six locations where there’s genuine “interest” (per Kevin Weekes) and I don’t think they would bring in more than two when you take an expansion draft into account.
Sets up a potential bidding war that could go that high.
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