Draisaitl vs Hughes

[severian]

Hughes could one day win a hart.

Draisaitl has won a hart.

east choice tbh.

Taylor Hall has won a Hart. I don't think anyone is going to argue that means Hall is better than Hughes.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Taylor Hall has won a Hart. I don't think anyone is going to argue that means Hall is better than Hughes.

weak argument if you have to go to the worst player to possibly ever win a hart to give the argument any amount of merit.

Door 2 could be anything! Even a boat.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

It's very obvious the OP said who is the better player, not who is the more valuable asset, who is better at Hughes' current age or whatever other cope devlels fans come up with to defend their boy. Congrats on voting something the OP didn't ask for.

I don't track the OP's every move, didn't read another thread so I voted based on what the OP asked for.

Reading is hard? I clearly said I voted for Hughes in the more valuable asset thread that you didn't read and voted for LD in this thread about who the better player is.

Man, are you even trying to understand or just fighting?

 

[tfwnogf]

Reading is hard? I clearly said I voted for Hughes in the more valuable asset thread that you didn't read and voted for LD in this thread about who the better player is.

Man, are you even trying to understand or just fighting?

I missed that part, my bad. Don't be upset with me I just don't understand why you bringing up another thread or OP's activities like it is relevant. I'm glad you understand that Drai is superior, maybe you devils fans aren't all that bad

To make this even clearer for you.. There were 2 different threads
One about valuable assets there I voted for Jack Hughes as he's younger and on a long term deal
The second one, it's this one if you're wondering, asked who the better player is, and I voted for Leon Draisaitl as I feel he is currently the better player.

Thanks. That's much clearer.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Close the poll down due to lopsided results.

New poll idea

GSVA

 

[HugeInTheShire]

I missed that part, my bad. Don't be upset with me I just don't understand why you bringing up another thread or OP's activities like it is relevant. I'm glad you understand that Drai is superior, maybe you devils fans aren't all that bad

I brought it up because OP was whining in that thread about everyone getting it wrong, so he made a new poll and changed the criteria.
So the problem is with the stupid revenge poll we are currently in.

I watch a lot of hockey, and a lot of Oiler games so I understand how good Drai is, but the reason we're here is a stupid flex by an insecure Oiler fan

 

[severian]

weak argument if you have to go to the worst player to possibly ever win a hart to give the argument any amount of merit.

Door 2 could be anything! Even a boat.

I haven't been arguing that Hughes is better. I'm just making the point that a one time Hart trophy win doesn't by default make Drai the better player.

 

[tfwnogf]

I brought it up because OP was whining in that thread about everyone getting it wrong, so he made a new poll and changed the criteria.
So the problem is with the stupid revenge poll we are currently in.

Well he's free to do so, even if that is petty. Clearly we are all just pawns in OP's game here.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Well he's free to do so, even if that is petty. Clearly we are all just pawns in OP's game here.

It's annoying because it ends up making Devil fans look bad like we're obsessed with Hughes being better than he is because we're constantly making the Hughes vs established superstars threads... but we didn't do this one.

 

[tfwnogf]

It's annoying because it ends up making Devil fans look bad like we're obsessed with Hughes being better than he is because we're constantly making the Hughes vs established superstars threads... but we didn't do this one.

Yeah admittedly I thought he was a devils fan, although mentioning the 0 points in 0 playoff games should have been my first clue first clue he was up to something...

 

[Spilot23]

Man how does half a superstar year erase 4 years of top 5 play for Draisaitl

Do ppl think Draisaitl is like a 70 pt guy on a different team lol

This.

Damn I remember seeing Draisaitl on one leg in the playoffs he was scary offensively. Managed to pot 4 assists in game 4 despite being in agony after every single hit or contact he got.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Yeah admittedly I thought he was a devils fan, although mentioning the 0 points in 0 playoff games should have been my first clue first clue he was up to something...

Ya that was kind of comical like the poll wasn't already skewed in favor of the player that has been around longer, that also happened to win a Hart trophy, he still was insecure enough to have to add the playoffs just to skew it further.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

I haven't been arguing that Hughes is better. I'm just making the point that a one time Hart trophy win doesn't by default make Drai the better player.

It does in this circumstance.

you’re talking about a top-5 player in the league for multiple seasons vs a player who hasn’t done anything so far in his career and is being held in high regard from “potential” and “potential” alone.

 

[severian]

It does in this circumstance.

you’re talking about a top-5 player in the league for multiple seasons vs a player who hasn’t done anything so far in his career and is being held in high regard from “potential” and “potential” alone.

Hasn't done anything in his career is a bit much when talking about Hughes. You're talking about one of the best, if not the best young players in the league (depending on where you place that cut off of course). He certainly is nowhere near as proven as Draisatl, and I definitely agree that he has to sustain this run in order to be put in the conversation for top 5 or even 10 players in the league.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

It does in this circumstance.

you’re talking about a top-5 player in the league for multiple seasons vs a player who hasn’t done anything so far in his career and is being held in high regard from “potential” and “potential” alone.

The question was who is the better player, not who has the better resume. The latter answer is obvious and is what’s being reflected in the poll. Draisaitl has not been a top 5 hockey player this season. A top powerplay point getter? Yes.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

It does in this circumstance.

you’re talking about a top-5 player in the league for multiple seasons vs a player who hasn’t done anything so far in his career and is being held in high regard from “potential” and “potential” alone.

Top 10 in scoring, but only held in high regard because of “potential”. Sure thing, buddy.

I mean, you’re right in one respect, Hughes is really only scratching the surface at 21.

 

[North Cole]

He isn’t shooting a particularly high percentage, he’s a volume shooter. He generates a massive amount of shots. He shot 15.8% last year, 14.6% this year.

Draisaitl is much better on the PP (but I mean a lot of that must be due to McDavid) but he also gives way more back at 5 on 5 defensively. It isn’t outlandish to take Hughes as the better player, he has been this season.


No shit, he’s 21. And he broke out last year, he just had a couple injuries. The question is who is the better player right now.

Funny stuff doing “points since Hughes entered the league” which includes teenage seasons. Leon had 9 points in 37 games as a teenager. Anyway…

Hughes has been out there for 44 goals and 24 against with 62.5 xGF%. Leon has been out there for 37 GF and 37 GA with 50.5 xGF%.

Something tells me Jack’s point totals might go up if he played on the PP with one of the best players ever.

You can actually look at a specific player’s defensive impact on the game. Jack’s is good, Leon’s absolutely stinks.

"You can actually look at one players' defensive impact", so you drop in some xgf% and gf/ga stats that show he's performing but don't actually refute that on the whole he is still also benefiting from the fact that NJ is a much better team defensively. It's not mutually exclusive if you actually look at team mate distribution and thier with/without stats.

The excuse, "Jack had a couple injuries" in a poll against Draisaitl who scored 17 in 5 in the playoffs against the Flames with a blown leg doesn't really land.

"Drai is good on the PP but a lot of that must be McDavid". So defensive stats (which are dubious at best in the public stat sites) can be dissected individually as the basis for your argument, but Drai has a massive edge on the PP, so we just lump that in aggregate and attribute it to McDavid. I like that as an added bonus we not only - hypocritically assume that Hughes takes advantage of our historical PP, but then we don't let Drai take advantage of playing on NJ where all of the D have much better xgf% than basically anyone of the D on EDM.

---

Drai xgf% D mates:
Of the 5 D that Drai has played with >100 minutes at 5v5, all 3/5 have both higher xgf% and over 50 xgf% with Drai. Nurse and Drai actually each have improved xgf% numbers away from each other - issue here IMO is coaching because it's the D he's played the most with, if you just separated them you'd likely be better in both spots. The other is Bouch (who he's played the least with). Of the 3 D that are better with him, all 3 have <50 xgf% without him.

Hughes xgf% D mates:
Of the 6 D that Hughes has played with >100 minutes at 5v5, 5/6 have both higher xgf% and over 50 xgf% with Hughes. Ryan Graves is abysmal away from Hughes where he drops from 60 to 48.4 xgf%. The other is Marino who is marginally worse and doesn't seem to be effected by Hughes at all.

So Drai has two defenseman better without him, one of which is much better without him and one of which he is also better without. Hughes has one defenseman better without him, marginally so, and 5 that are better with him, one of which is useless without him. The difference is that when Hughes is not with those 5D that are better with him, they average - 53.99, whereas when Drai is not with the 3D that are better with him, they average - 47.39. Does hughes have a bigger impact on his D - yes, because when he's with them they are in the low 60's, but it's pretty hard to sit here and say that Drai doesn't at least help his D in the xgf%.

As far as actual GF/GA stats go - I mean, look at the xgf% with the goalies... Draisaitl's highest goalie TOI is with Stuart Skinner... his xgf% is f***ing 46.59 with Skinner and lo and behold as you say his GA is trash (kind of remarkable he is breaking even TBH). His xgf% without (with Jack Campbell) is nearly 70 and Jack Campbell is a goalie nearly always in the bottom of the league in GSAA so some help that is anyways. Hughes highest goalie TOI is vanacek who he has 66.77 xgf% and lo and behold, as you say Jack has good actual GA numbers... meanwhile his without vanacek xgf% is in the 40's... So either Jack Hughes is atrocious at generating xgf with the empty net which seems hard to believe because NJ is a possession machine and rarely trails in games, or you can look at the fact that the goalie stats are mirrored because he's 50/71 (w/wo) when paired with Blackwood.

So it's not hard to see that while Drai has a lesser positive impact on his D partners than Hughes, it's still positive and Hughes isn't getting clowned by his goaltending. This is before mentioning that Hughes top 3 ice time is with Bratt at a 71 xgf%, which seems both usustainable and also part of the reason he is actually breaking out - rather than Hero Jack Hughes line driver of defense and offense against the world all by himself which is what you seem to be trying to peddle. Hell Drai and McDavid have like a mid 50's xgf% together and they are a historically proficient offensive duo, but you would be hard pressed to not get laughed out of the room in a poll saying "Bratt/Hughes vs McDavid/Drai, which duo do you take?"- that's how bad it is on the other side.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Top 10 in scoring, but only held in high regard because of “potential”. Sure thing, buddy.

I mean, you’re right in one respect, Hughes is really only scratching the surface at 21.

Ah yes if we’re using something as meaningless as where they are in league scoring this year - it is impressive that Jack Hughes Is top-10. Well done.

Want to know where Leon is?
I don’t have to tell you - his reputation precedes him.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Ah yes if we’re using something as meaningless as where they are in league scoring this year - it is impressive that Jack Hughes Is top-10. Well done.

Want to know where Leon is?
I don’t have to tell you - his reputation precedes him.

How his scoring rates to the rest of the league is meaningless? Even for this thread that’s clown shit lol.

What does Draisaitl have to do with your asinine take that Hughes is only regarded for his potential and not, you know, his actual results?

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

"You can actually look at one players' defensive impact", so you drop in some xgf% and gf/ga stats that show he's performing but don't actually refute that on the whole he is still also benefiting from the fact that NJ is a much better team defensively. It's not mutually exclusive if you actually look at team mate distribution and thier with/without stats.

The excuse, "Jack had a couple injuries" in a poll against Draisaitl who scored 17 in 5 in the playoffs against the Flames with a blown leg doesn't really land.

"Drai is good on the PP but a lot of that must be McDavid". So defensive stats (which are dubious at best in the public stat sites) can be dissected individually as the basis for your argument, but Drai has a massive edge on the PP, so we just lump that in aggregate and attribute it to McDavid. I like that as an added bonus we not only - hypocritically assume that Hughes takes advantage of our historical PP, but then we don't let Drai take advantage of playing on NJ where all of the D have much better xgf% than basically anyone of the D on EDM.

---

Drai xgf% D mates:
Of the 5 D that Drai has played with >100 minutes at 5v5, all 3/5 have both higher xgf% and over 50 xgf% with Drai. Nurse and Drai actually each have improved xgf% numbers away from each other - issue here IMO is coaching because it's the D he's played the most with, if you just separated them you'd likely be better in both spots. The other is Bouch (who he's played the least with). Of the 3 D that are better with him, all 3 have <50 xgf% without him.

Hughes xgf% D mates:
Of the 6 D that Hughes has played with >100 minutes at 5v5, 5/6 have both higher xgf% and over 50 xgf% with Hughes. Ryan Graves is abysmal away from Hughes where he drops from 60 to 48.4 xgf%. The other is Marino who is marginally worse and doesn't seem to be effected by Hughes at all.

So Drai has two defenseman better without him, one of which is much better without him and one of which he is also better without. Hughes has one defenseman better without him, marginally so, and 5 that are better with him, one of which is useless without him. The difference is that when Hughes is not with those 5D that are better with him, they average - 53.99, whereas when Drai is not with the 3D that are better with him, they average - 47.39. Does hughes have a bigger impact on his D - yes, because when he's with them they are in the low 60's, but it's pretty hard to sit here and say that Drai doesn't at least help his D in the xgf%.

As far as actual GF/GA stats go - I mean, look at the xgf% with the goalies... Draisaitl's highest goalie TOI is with Stuart Skinner... his xgf% is f***ing 46.59 with Skinner and lo and behold as you say his GA is trash (kind of remarkable he is breaking even TBH). His xgf% without (with Jack Campbell) is nearly 70 and Jack Campbell is a goalie nearly always in the bottom of the league in GSAA so some help that is anyways. Hughes highest goalie TOI is vanacek who he has 66.77 xgf% and lo and behold, as you say Jack has good actual GA numbers... meanwhile his without vanacek xgf% is in the 40's... So either Jack Hughes is atrocious at generating xgf with the empty net which seems hard to believe because NJ is a possession machine and rarely trails in games, or you can look at the fact that the goalie stats are mirrored because he's 50/71 (w/wo) when paired with Blackwood.

So it's not hard to see that while Drai has a lesser positive impact on his D partners than Hughes, it's still positive and Hughes isn't getting clowned by his goaltending. This is before mentioning that Hughes top 3 ice time is with Bratt at a 71 xgf%, which seems both usustainable and also part of the reason he is actually breaking out - rather than Hero Jack Hughes line driver of defense and offense against the world all by himself which is what you seem to be trying to peddle. Hell Drai and McDavid have like a mid 50's xgf% together and they are a historically proficient offensive duo, but you would be hard pressed to not get laughed out of the room in a poll saying "Bratt/Hughes vs McDavid/Drai, which duo do you take?"- that's how bad it is on the other side.

You can see the relative stats here:

Keep in mind this includes hundreds of minutes with an all time great player too. When you control for that, it doesn’t look pretty. I’m not even saying it’s a 100% guarantee Jack will always be better than him, he has just been the better player this season. And very clearly.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

How his scoring rates to the rest of the league is meaningless? Even for this thread that’s clown shit lol.

What does Draisaitl have to do with your asinine take that Hughes is only regarded for his potential?

I know what I am getting with Draisaitl - a LEGITIMATE centre that can contend for hart trophy’s and scoring titles.

Does Hughes do that? No - not right now. He is a mystery box.

I’m taking the SURE thing.

 

[Rybo]

It does in this circumstance.

you’re talking about a top-5 player in the league for multiple seasons vs a player who hasn’t done anything so far in his career and is being held in high regard from “potential” and “potential” alone.

If we wanna be technical, Draisaitl hasnt done anything either!

All that really matters is the big ol' trophy

Draisaitl and Hughes would be quite the duo

 

[Jersey Fresh]

I know what I am getting with Draisaitl - a LEGITIMATE centre that can contend for hart trophy’s and scoring titles.

Does Hughes do that? No - not right now. He is a mystery box.

I’m taking the SURE thing.


View attachment 636182

One more time - what does Draisaitl have to do with your awful take on Hughes and what’s driving his regard?

We’re watching Hughes perform right now as a top ten producer in the league.

 

[Oneiro]

Drai today and Hughes tomorrow. Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

 

[Ninety7]

Comical

Draisaitl every day of the week.