Doug MacLean almost fed up with drafting Russians...

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by Slats432, Aug 10, 2006.

View Users: View Users
  1. Slats432

    Slats432 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2002
    Messages:
    12,815
    Likes Received:
    89
    Trophy Points:
    176
    Home Page:
    I was listening to Bob McCowan...and Doug MacLean is a regular guest...must be buddies.

    Here is a paraphrased excerpt (Very close...but not verbatim.)

    Bob "So Doug with this Malkin situation, it puts a lot of pressure on guys that are drafting Russian kids. Obviously he might not be coming this year, and after that who knows."

    Doug "Hey, we paid $400K to get Zherdev over, and now he is talking about going back....how do you think we feel?"

    Bob "Makes you almost fed up with drafting Russians."

    Doug "Well, not exactly but it is getting to that point."

    It looked this year that some Russian kids dropped and next year...if there still is no agreement by the draft....then it could get worse.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. X-SHARKIE

    X-SHARKIE Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2003
    Messages:
    9,362
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Janesville Wisconsin
    Home Page:
    You cannot say no to Malkin or Zherdev....but the lower ranked guys are definitley going to slip IMO.

    Sharks haven't taken a Russian in over six years I believe.... so some teams have been staying away for quite awhile.
     
  3. Can't say as I would blame any GM for not wanting to get into a mess like the one surrounding Malkin or Washington's Semin, who had to go back for a year. With only being able to hold a European Draft pick for 2 years, it just doen't make good business to pick a player in the first few rounds who, for political reasons, may never set foot in the NHL.
     
  4. Jori

    Jori Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    Messages:
    20,333
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    169
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Home Page:
    Agreed. Teams will still take "can't miss" players, but many guys will fall down the draft board. The Avs haven't drafted a Russian since 2004; in fact, they haven't selected any Europeans in the last two drafts. If it's after the first couple of rounds and a European and NCAA player are of equal talent, the Avs will go with the NCAA player.
     
  5. GKJ

    GKJ Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    141,299
    Likes Received:
    2,741
    Trophy Points:
    232
    The Flyers drafted 2 Russians this year, which is shocking because we never draft any.
     
  6. discostu

    discostu Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2002
    Messages:
    20,150
    Likes Received:
    487
    Trophy Points:
    199
    Location:
    Nomadville
    Home Page:
    Ottawa has gone pretty heavy on Russians in recent years, precisely because others have stayed away. They've been some good finds for us, but, I imagine that they hoped a deal would have been signed that would make it easier for them to come over. At least Ottawa's been in a situation where we've had the luxury of waiting. Teams that are looking for a more immediate ROI on their picks can't neccessarily afford to do that, and will be less likely to draft Russians if this trend continues.

    It's also worth pointing out that this development works in the Russian hockey teams favour. They'll be holding onto their young players longer because of it, making their league more competitive, which appears to be their biggest objective. The kids are getting screwed though.
     
  7. SmokeyClause

    SmokeyClause Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    9,999
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    M&A Consultant
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    Home Page:
    Beware the law of unintended consequences. Russian players might be a little more leery of the contracts they sign as youths going forward. You might have less 16 year olds signing long-term RSL contracts and more kids doing what Alexander Radulov did and only signing through his draft year. I'm not confident that this is what's going to happen, but there is the potential that Russian players react in this way. Their agents and the like will probably be pushing them this way as their draftability/signability skyrockets if they show the desire and foresight to plan for life after the RSL.
     
  8. Ronald Pagan

    Ronald Pagan Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,330
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    86
    I don't think Sutter has drafted a single Russian in his tenure as Flames GM. Zyuzin was the first Russian he willingly acquired.
     
  9. Matt

    Matt Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2006
    Messages:
    1,946
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think the jury is still out on Zherdev. He hasn't learned English, he is constantly trying to go one on one and even if he beats the defenseman, he usually loses the puck. Federov has preached to him the advantages of the give and go, and Nik has more or less ignored him, and his defensive play isn't what it should be. If he decides to stay in Russia, the CBJ will still be ok
     
  10. Matt

    Matt Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2006
    Messages:
    1,946
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think the jury is still out on Zherdev. He hasn't learned English, he is constantly trying to go one on one and even if he beats the defenseman, he usually loses the puck. Federov has preached to him the advantages of the give and go, and Nik has more or less ignored him, and his defensive play isn't what it should be. If he decides to stay in Russia, the CBJ will still be ok. By the way, Bobby Mc was born in Columbus Ohio
     
  11. Hawker14

    Hawker14 Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,084
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    84
    i think maclean is posturing for public relation's sake.

    he's playing hardball in his contract talks with zherdev, and zherdev is using the only leverage he has which is to go back and play in russia.

    this instance has nothing to do with russia not signing the transfer agreement.
     
  12. Seth Lake

    Seth Lake Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2005
    Messages:
    8,855
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Home Page:
    I agree with the sentiment that GM's will have to be more careful when selecting European players and especially Russian players in the future. It was highly stressed by David Poile here in Nashville in the week leading up to the draft that they were not going to select anyone they thought wouldn't sign or expressed little desire to come over to North America in the next two years. His reasoning was simple...after the two years...you lose their draft rights and you essentially wasted a pick.

    This year the Predators selected two Euros (Niko Snellman and Viktor Sjodin) and in the Predators initial comments after the draft regarding both players they specfically stressed that these players were committed to coming over to North America immediately and both players were subsequently drafted into the CHL in the following days.

    I think that some GM's will pass on a selecting a European player with a high pick regardless of talent if they question whether or not the player will sign in the next two years and come to North America. Other GM's in the mean time will either be forced to take the risk to acquire a player of considerable talent with a high pick or they will simply ignore the risk and conduct business as usual.

    I would keep my eye on where this situation goes and the impact it has on the upcoming drafts because I do believe that some players will fall considerably...especially mid-tier prospects.
     
  13. Jonjmc

    Jonjmc Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,496
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    94
    I'd expect to see a few changes if Russia doesnt sign the next transfer agreement.... if the NHL is even interested in one that is. Maybe something along the lines of.... a player drafted from any nation not part of the transfer agreement remains the property of the nhl team that drafted him until he chooses to play in the NHL..... meaning forever. I expect the NHL to play hardball the next time around.
     
  14. kdb209

    kdb209 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    16,271
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    126
    That is technically the case as it is now.

    The Defected Player / Group IV RFA player category is still part of the CBA - teams still keep the rights to non-NA draftee's indefinitely (except for pre-lockout defected players handled under Exhibit 16 (n)). Once an acceptable IIHF PTA is in place, the NHL/NHLPA have a seperate side agreement voiding all of the CBA terms relating to Defected Players & Group IV RFAs, and making unsigned Euros treated the same way as NA draft picks - two years and then back into the draft.

    It will be up to the NHL/NHLPA to decide how to execute that side agreement in the case of an IIHF agreement that excludes Russia.
     
  15. Rabid Ranger

    Rabid Ranger 2 is better than one

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    22,989
    Likes Received:
    780
    Trophy Points:
    214
    Occupation:
    Contract manager
    Location:
    Murica
    I'm not sure this was posturing on MacLean's part. It sounded more like a candid conversation about some serious issues when it comes to drafting Russian hockey players. Frankly, I don't think Zherdev is worth the trouble he's been to Columbus, and while his and other examples shouldn't turn teams totally against drafting Russians, you can already see the trend of avoidance in NHL circles. It's just not worth it to spend a high draft pick on a player(s) that are unlikely to materialize as bankable assets.
     
  16. Magnus Fulgur

    Magnus Fulgur Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2002
    Messages:
    7,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Wanna fix the NHL?

    Focus on developing and drafting North Americans.
     
  17. Jonjmc

    Jonjmc Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,496
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Thats already obviously being done. I think the point you are missing is.... the NHL isnt recruiting players from other nations, its the players themselves that want to come here..... nothing to fix in that regard.
     
  18. OhioGuy

    OhioGuy Registered User

    Joined:
    May 26, 2006
    Messages:
    544
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    Agreed, but there is still the larger issue of Russian players in general threatening to leave the NHL and go play in Russia if they don't get their way.

    I feel very "uneasy" about drafting Russians now. With Malkin, Zherdev and countless other problems with Russian prospects...it just seems like too much of a hassle to me. Sure, if there is another Malkin or AO, a team will jump on him, but I think its the lower level Russian prospects that will suffer ultimately.
     
  19. DeputyDan

    DeputyDan Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    686
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    CPA CVA
    Carolina's experiments with Russian draftees have been lessons in disappointment.

    That old fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me.

    We haven't seen any Russian picks in several years now.
     
  20. blueliner

    blueliner Tough Building

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2003
    Messages:
    665
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Home Page:
    Potentially won't bode well for the Devils either...

    We took 3 Russians this year (Vasyunov, Tulupov, Zharkov) which equals a club record for Russian draftees at one draft, set in that Illustrious Iron Curtain era of 1983 when we took Fetisov, Kasatonov and Alex Chernykh.

    As far as our '06 draftees go, Lou being all over Russians at a time when most of the league is steering clear could be deemed another characteristic act of boldness on his part. Perhaps there's a case of Kool-Aid headed to the Russian hockey Federation HQ?
     
  21. Everest

    Everest Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Messages:
    10,411
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    NOPE.
    Russian hockey is a unique and majestic thing that should be part of any league that wants to promote itself as the best league in the world.
    The NHL needs to break this embargo with Russian hockey and re-create a strong/trustworthy relatioship with the Russian Federation.
    I think there were some lines crossed and some "good old boys" who are likley still in "high up postions of authority" in assorted NHL venues were at fault (back in the day) and these guys need to be outed or some how amends need to be made...this is the only way the RF will co-operate.
    Certain people here in the NHL would like us to believe its the Russians who are being difficult or dishonest...but BOTH sides are to blame and both sides are ultimaltey bickering over the almighty dollar...and WE THE FANS are getting cheated out of seeing some of the finest hockey talent on the planet.
     
  22. Changeiscoming

    Changeiscoming Rebooting myself Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2003
    Messages:
    81,985
    Likes Received:
    1,951
    Trophy Points:
    232
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    currently creating a new identity
    Location:
    Have Backpack Will Travel
    I think part of the problem is that a player comes over and then goes back after 2 seasons--the team that ponied up the cash should get some of it back.

    But the rooskies will never go for it.
     
  23. ryz

    ryz Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2004
    Messages:
    3,245
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Ummmm, are North Americans not by far and away the most drafted players on NHL draft day? I completely fail to see what you are trying to say here.
     
  24. Nova88

    Nova88 Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
    Messages:
    462
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Why cant the Russians play by rules of capitalism ?!?! I know why, because US is always right and they get todo whatever they want ?!?! If you havent noticed, NHL is business and RSL is business so you have to negotiate. But it looks like that every time RSL asks for money they get labeled as mafia. IF nothing is signed then let the battle be in courts. But i dont see RSL backing off they have more money then the NHL and they can start overpaying players to come to RSL. You may think this is dirty but thats capitalism and many companies in US do the same dirty tricks. As always people from America think they are the best and turn the blind eye on everything bad that they have done, its always the dirty Russians that get blamed.
     
  25. Hawker14

    Hawker14 Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,084
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    84
    this is obviously all maclean's fault. had he drafted dion phaneuf he wouldn't be in this situation !!!

    :yo:
     

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"