Doug Gilmour - Babysitter case

[The Panther]

I think you were initially responding to a post that wasn't necessarily wholly serious in tone. It's @who_me? who is a famous jest poster on this board and the author of the notorious (and now probably buried, after a million ridiculous site "updates") Duncan Keith is a chihuahua on skates thread (this thread predates Chicago's mini-dynasty btw). I understand tone can be hard sometimes through text, but I think overall people tend to get a little bit too upset unnecessarily on this board, often over quite trivial things.

Tragic things can be funny sometimes, though it's a fine line obviously, but humour is often a coping mechanism in hard times. I remember when Vincent Damphousse had that domestic violence issue going on years ago, someone on this site made a "a housse is not a home" (or something similar) joke, which probably was a bit insensitive (and got mod nuked btw, the post, I think), but I remember laughing out loud at it anyways because it was so ridiculous (the joke, not the situation). That (obviously) doesn't mean I condone domestic violence or try to downplay it.

I also don't think he called MacTavish a killer, he said he killed someone which is technically true.

I don't go out of my way to pick on you, I actually appreciate posters with different opinions and it would be boring if everyone here had the same opinion on everything (the site is already boring enough through regurgitated topics). I think most of our Messier banter, for instance, is in good spirit (?), well at least on my part it is. I guess you can take it as a compliment (if you want to), because posters I genuinely dislike, or which I find uninteresting, I don't engage with.

Don't worry, we good.

 

[FissionFire]

This thread has been so badly derailed with 2 off-topic rants about MacTavish and Glenn Anderson.

 

[RegDunlop]

This thread has been so badly derailed with 2 off-topic rants about MacTavish and Glenn Anderson.

True!
Personally I hold both sides of argument legit. I've known MacT to be an outstanding citizen since first arriving in Edmonton. However I cannot imagine the other side of the story.

As for Anderson, same thing. I've always been torn on whether he is HHofF worthy or not. I think, like others feel, with the criteria set I suppose he should be. Lived his game.

Back to killer.
I seem to remember something about suing the parents as well. Kind of forgot about case. Also reminds me of Dino Cicarelli (sp).

 

[decma]

If there were any legitimacy to it, I'd have to think it'd follow him, but he played another 15 years and you never heard any opposition players heckling him over it, etc. Not to be dismissive of an accuser or whatever, but this doesn't pass the smell test and I think everyone in the league agreed.

Gilmour has said that he was taunted by opposing players.

E.g., this article from May 1989:

Flames' Gilmour puts past troubles behind him - UPI Archives

If Doug Gilmour played football, it probably would be for the Los Angeles Raiders....

www.upi.com

Gilmour, who admitted the Canadiens taunted him on the ice as people have all season, had said before that he may never escape stigma. He thought even a Stanley Cup or the passage of time would not make people remember anything else about him.

In any case, even if it didn't follow him, I wouldn't take that as an indication that there was nothing to the allegations.

I just don't think there just is that much talk about allegations (or even charges or convictions) against players after the initial attention goes away.

E.g., Sean Burke's domestic violence incident doesn't seem to be brought up much (and hasn't prevented him from having a long career in hockey after his playing days ended) and neither does Patrick Kane's assault and robbery of a cabbie.

 

[Crosby2010]

Anderson's post season all star voting speaks volumes as to why is a questionable HHOFer.

Finishes of 7,4,5,6,3.9 and 11th would be one thing if he was a center in a 32 team league but he was a winger in a 21 team league and aside from that his regular season resume adds extremely little.

His bread and butter is definitely the playoffs. Still basically a point per game in the regular season though too. But he made his living in the playoffs. Just too many playoff moments to ignore. He is most certainly one of those "If he was drafted by the Hartford Whalers he isn't in" type of guy, and I agree, but he helped make that Oilers dynasty. Look at his 6 Cups, he's big in all of them except 1994, at least stat-wise. But even in 1994 he was traded for Gartner and the idea is that he definitely was the leader and dressing room presence that Gartner wasn't.

 

[Crosby2010]

Gilmour has said that he was taunted by opposing players.

E.g., this article from May 1989:

Flames' Gilmour puts past troubles behind him - UPI Archives

If Doug Gilmour played football, it probably would be for the Los Angeles Raiders....

www.upi.com

Gilmour, who admitted the Canadiens taunted him on the ice as people have all season, had said before that he may never escape stigma. He thought even a Stanley Cup or the passage of time would not make people remember anything else about him.

In any case, even if it didn't follow him, I wouldn't take that as an indication that there was nothing to the allegations.

I just don't think there just is that much talk about allegations (or even charges or convictions) against players after the initial attention goes away.

E.g., Sean Burke's domestic violence incident doesn't seem to be brought up much (and hasn't prevented him from having a long career in hockey after his playing days ended) and neither does Patrick Kane's assault and robbery of a cabbie.

I love Gilmour, always have. On the ice and off the ice. He is everything you want in a player for sure. Now, that being said I can appreciate the other side of the coin. Gilmour as I know him is "Dougie". He has a mystique that reigns especially true for Leaf fans. And he has a ton of playoff moments that make him legendary. But I do realize that off the ice things weren't quite as clean for him. He's been married three times and I am guessing that the accusations to an extent followed him. His 2nd wife Amy was married to him while he was in Toronto and I can remember them doing Milk commercials. I am sure there has been some turmoil and maybe the allegations played a role in that.

As for on the ice, I guess Gilmour can point to the fact that he scored the Cup winning goal against Montreal in 1989.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

This thread has been so badly derailed with 2 off-topic rants about MacTavish and Glenn Anderson.

needs more oilers

grant fuhr up next?

 

[sr edler]

Grant Fuhr's coke addiction, chapter 3.

 

[FerrisRox]

Anderson's solid 1993 playoff run with Toronto also showed he could be clutch and effective post-Oilers.)

It's worth noting, for his playoff resume, that he scored three goals in the 1994 Stanley Cup Final against the Canucks and two of them were game winners.

 

[rfournier103]

I don’t really know many of the details of the case and I don’t care enough about Doug Gilmour to look it up myself, but was he ever charged or convicted of a crime?

 

[hacksaw7]

I think you might have a very naive view of the American justice system. Here is an excerpt from an LA times article about the grand jury's decision to not indict:

"John Ross, chief trial attorney for St. Louis County prosecuting attorney George Westfall, said he was surprised by the decision. Ross said part of the evidence was a diary in which the girl described a string of sexual encounters with Gilmour."

Jury Won't Indict Gilmour on Sex Charge

A grand jury has decided not to indict former St.

www.latimes.com

They had a diary describing their encounters. Nowadays we would call that corrobating evidence in what is often called a he-said she-said case. The problem is the case was marred by countersuit that claimed that the prosecution was trying to extort the blues.

Remeber this was not only pre-metoo but pre-anita hill. It took decades for Bill Cosby past to catch up to him.

My sister used to work as a math tutor for a kid who was about 15 (she was in her early 30s) he became smitten with her. He was a good artist but didnt have a mind for numbers

He had to run downstairs for something. Meg needs a clean sheet of paper to show him some kind of equation...she sees a drawing pad and decides that will do. Opens it up and....

Now if his mother found that she would think this tutor is posing naked for her teenage son.

Is it really so unheard of for a teenage guy or girl to privately write down or draw what they're fantasizing about. What they wish was happening

 

[wetcoast]

It's worth noting, for his playoff resume, that he scored three goals in the 1994 Stanley Cup Final against the Canucks and two of them were game winners.

I know that you are getting a bit excited about this years SC finals matchup but I believe in 94 those teams played in the conference finals and Gilmour didn't score the OT winner in game one which was the only game the Leafs won that year.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

I know that you are getting a bit excited about this years SC finals matchup but I believe in 94 those teams played in the conference finals and Gilmour didn't score the OT winner in game one which was the only game the Leafs won that year.

He’s talking about Glenn Anderson, I believe.

 

[FerrisRox]

I know that you are getting a bit excited about this years SC finals matchup but I believe in 94 those teams played in the conference finals and Gilmour didn't score the OT winner in game one which was the only game the Leafs won that year.

I'm talking about Glenn Anderson. You appear to be talking about Doug Gilmour who was not involved in the 1994 Stanley Cup Final.

 

[wetcoast]

He’s talking about Glenn Anderson, I believe.

My bad I can't read just though thread title and went with it.

That being said Glenn Anderson was like the 14th most important Ranger that playoff.

 

[FerrisRox]

My bad I can't read just though thread title and went with it.

That being said Glenn Anderson was like the 14th most important Ranger that playoff.

...None of which changes the fact that the Rangers needed to win four games in the Stanley Cup Final to win the Championship and Glenn Anderson scored two of the four.

 

[wetcoast]

...None of which changes the fact that the Rangers needed to win four games in the Stanley Cup Final to win the Championship and Glenn Anderson scored two of the four.

Sure except one statement is more telling right?

The 2 GWG in the series is more luck than anything else and a great trivia answer.

 

[Crosby2010]

My sister used to work as a math tutor for a kid who was about 15 (she was in her early 30s) he became smitten with her. He was a good artist but didnt have a mind for numbers

He had to run downstairs for something. Meg needs a clean sheet of paper to show him some kind of equation...she sees a drawing pad and decides that will do. Opens it up and....

Now if his mother found that she would think this tutor is posing naked for her teenage son.

Is it really so unheard of for a teenage guy or girl to privately write down or draw what they're fantasizing about. What they wish was happening

I don't know for sure about the Gilmour situation with the diary and all, but I can add that boys will draw things they fantasize about. Now, I also drew pictures of hockey goalies and such as a kid. But my mother wasn't bothered by that, it was the surprisingly good detailed drawings of women/girls that bothered her that she found in my room. So I will say that I am not sure you can use such things as evidence when this is the things kids will do.

One thing I think for sure is that Doug Gilmour either has a lot of apologies owed to him over the years or he owes a lot to people himself.

One of the reasons why I don't immediately respond to accusations like this and automatically see the man as guilty is because so often it has not been true. You hear stories like this, but I also know friends who were going through a nasty divorce and one of the things the wife complained about was the way her ex-husband was with their daughter. Without going into it, he was accused by the wife of things. None of it was true, he was devastated and sunk into a deep depression, and even his daughter took his side and was against the mother, but it just goes to show you that even an untrue accusation can damage a man beyond what you can imagine.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

No idea about the rumours.

What I will say though is Gilmour was one of the fiercest players I’ve ever watched in the playoffs. He dusted the Canadiens in 89 and did almost everything a player could do while in TO. An absolute playoff monster and terrific two way player.

In terms of that other stuff, you never know. I mean I was absolutely shocked when the OJ Simpson stuff came out. How can we really know anything about something that doesn’t have any published evidence on it?

 

[Byron Bitz]

I can't get into any of it here because of site rules, but the full story behind this is pretty incredible and I think people would be pretty amazed by all of the details, and how much it actually effected hockey matters.

It's a story that is very much "of its time." In today's world, things would have unfolded very differently.

Where can we read the full story?

 

[FerrisRox]

Where can we read the full story?

You can't. There are various NDA's.

 

[Strangle]

My bad I can't read just though thread title and went with it.

That being said Glenn Anderson was like the 14th most important Ranger that playoff.

It’s tough when people start talking about Glenn Anderson in a thread about allegations concern ing doug gilmour

 

[Byron Bitz]

You can't. There are various NDA's.

Then how do you know the full story?

 

[wetcoast]

It’s tough when people start talking about Glenn Anderson in a thread about allegations concern ing doug gilmour

Frankly I'd have to read back up thread to see how he even came up but my point is that Glenn Anderson is only in the HHOF because of his playoff resume as an Oiler his regular season resume is really meh and even as an Oiler he was never the guy driving the bus, he was a good player when he wanted to be but a really fortunate passenger.

Ironically he was basically washed up in 91-92 as a Leaf going through the motions and then got a 1.5 season bump and another decent playoffs almost 100% due to Gilmour being traded to the Leafs.

 

[The Panther]

Frankly I'd ahve to read back upthread to see how he even came up but my point is that Glenn Anderson is only in the HHOF becasue of his playoff resume as an Oiler his regualr season resume is really meh and even as an Oiler he was never the guy driving the bus, he was a good player when he wanted to be but a really fortunate passenger.

Ironically he was basically washed up in 91-92 as a Leaf going through the motions and then got a 1.5 season bump and another decent playoffs almost 100% due to Gilmour being traded to the Leafs.

"Never" driving the bus....? I suggest you go back and watch games 4 and 5 of the 1990 Stanley Cup Final. Anderson drove the bus.

Also, his regular season being "meh" seems a bit harsh. Anderson was the 2nd Oiler, ever, to post a 100-point season, beating Messier, Kurri, and Coffey to that. Up to 1986, there was always a debate of whether Messier or Anderson was the better player. From '82 through '86, Anderson outscored Messier and Trottier and he was the 4th-highest scoring winger in the NHL (not far off Goulet).

I do tire of this "passenger" argument towards good players who happened to be on teams with other good players. Literally nobody who followed the Oilers from 1981 to 1990 thought of Anderson as a "passenger".

There's of course a good argument against players like Anderson in the Hall of Fame, but to make it I don't think we need to post fake-news like "meh" and "passenger", which are simply false accusations.