I'm curious if Grigs ever pulls through somewhere else. He wasn't used properly in Colorado but he clearly never put the work in either. He's gotta learn to have at least some drive and "want" in his game and so far in his career he hasn't shown it. He's never going to get rewarded.
That said, if somebody plays him at centre (for the love of god don't ever play him on the wing) with some talented forwards and he decides to give just a tiny ounce more effort he's going to produce.
He makes players around him better. His 4 most common linemates over his two year span in Colorado are Duchene, Iginla, Soderberg and Mackinnon (in that order). Below are each of those player's on ice production with and without Grigorenko.
Duchene: 3.35GF/60 with Grigorenko | 1.77GF/60 Away from Grigorenko
Iginla: 1.98 GF/60 with Grigorenko | 1.84GF/60 Away from Grigorenko
Soderberg: 2.54 GF/60 with Grigorenko | 1.73GF/60 Away from Grigorenko
Mackinnon: 3.38GF/60 with Grigorenko | 2:49GF/60 Away from Grigorenko
Again, he'll never survive without starting to give some effort but there's something definitely there. Players produce substantially better when they get to play with Grigs.
Could that be because Grigo was heavily used in the O zone?
Just had a look because I thought maybe you'd be onto something but nope. Duchene started slightly less in the Ozone with Grigs than he did away from him. The other 3 started slightly more. The percentages aren't enough to use it as any type of argument.
I'm curious if Grigs ever pulls through somewhere else. He wasn't used properly in Colorado but he clearly never put the work in either. He's gotta learn to have at least some drive and "want" in his game and so far in his career he hasn't shown it. He's never going to get rewarded.
That said, if somebody plays him at centre (for the love of god don't ever play him on the wing) with some talented forwards and he decides to give just a tiny ounce more effort he's going to produce.
He makes players around him better. His 4 most common linemates over his two year span in Colorado are Duchene, Iginla, Soderberg and Mackinnon (in that order). Below are each of those player's on ice production with and without Grigorenko.
Duchene: 3.35GF/60 with Grigorenko | 1.77GF/60 Away from Grigorenko
Iginla: 1.98 GF/60 with Grigorenko | 1.84GF/60 Away from Grigorenko
Soderberg: 2.54 GF/60 with Grigorenko | 1.73GF/60 Away from Grigorenko
Mackinnon: 3.38GF/60 with Grigorenko | 2:49GF/60 Away from Grigorenko
Again, he'll never survive without starting to give some effort but there's something definitely there. Players produce substantially better when they get to play with Grigs.
I'm curious how big that sample size is on each player. Overall I didn't think Grigorenko got a ton of ice time, so how much did he actually play with those guys?
Also, to reiterate what was said before, I'm also curious if Grigo got favorable zone starts as well.
Keep in mind Eric Gelinas had fantastic possession stats in NJ, but that was a bit of a smokescreen--he had very favorable ZS time and not much ice time overall.
Kind of the tale of the tape when it comes to the Avalanche. They get all these specialist-type players and then can't/won't use them in their specialized roles.
But no, Grigorenko is not a viable NHL player. He's Kyle Wellwood with more size, less speed, and even less utility. I'll be shocked if he doesn't bolt for the KHL this season.
I'm curious how big that sample size is on each player. Overall I didn't think Grigorenko got a ton of ice time, so how much did he actually play with those guys?
Also, to reiterate what was said before, I'm also curious if Grigo got favorable zone starts as well.
Keep in mind Eric Gelinas had fantastic possession stats in NJ, but that was a bit of a smokescreen--he had very favorable ZS time and not much ice time overall.
Kind of the tale of the tape when it comes to the Avalanche. They get all these specialist-type players and then can't/won't use them in their specialized roles.
But no, Grigorenko is not a viable NHL player. He's Kyle Wellwood with more size, less speed, and even less utility. I'll be shocked if he doesn't bolt for the KHL this season.
Beauchemin was very bad last year, but it should be noted that unless he waived his NMC, the Avs would have been forced to protect him in the expansion draft.
Grigs could have been an amazing 4th ling right winger, capable of scoring 25-30 points for 1.5 - 2.0 mill per.
Should have kept him.
Grigs could have been an amazing 4th ling right winger, capable of scoring 25-30 points for 1.5 - 2.0 mill per.
Should have kept him.
Surprised it took 10 posts to hit the jackpot on why he was released.
Grigs could have been an amazing 4th ling right winger, capable of scoring 25-30 points for 1.5 - 2.0 mill per.
Should have kept him.
The more I think about not qualifying Grigorenko, the more I don't like it. I was kinda "meh whatever" at first simply because of the effort he gives and the fact that he likely will never change here. At second thought though I cant help but wonder "why not simply qualify him"? It's just money. We aren't pressing anywhere near the cap this year. If he takes us to arbitration we could choose the one year term. I just don't see the harm in qualifying him.
Grigs has the skill, but I still doubt he would ever put it all together because of his lack of drive. Especially here with Bednar. But it's still worth the risk considering how many roster spaces and how much cap space we have. If he goes on somewhere else and puts it all together it's just going to be another blunder on Sakic's resume that could have been avoided. Not because Grigorenko looks like he's going to turn a corner, but because he was a 22 year old, NHL quality (low nhl quality mind you), former top 15 pick with skill who had a poor year on one of the worst NHL teams ever that you just let walk for nothing.
Grigs scores 27 points last year: "Let's reward him with a 1.3 million dollar contract"
Grigs scores 23 points the next year on the worst team in two decades: "What a bum, no way he deserves the same contract he put blood sweat and tears into earning last year"
I'm not arguing this because I think Grigs is worth it. I'm arguing because I just don't see what changed since last year and what the harm would be. The fact that I think Bednar played a big part in this just pisses me off more.
The more I think about not qualifying Grigorenko, the more I don't like it. I was kinda "meh whatever" at first simply because of the effort he gives and the fact that he likely will never change here. At second thought though I cant help but wonder "why not simply qualify him"? It's just money. We aren't pressing anywhere near the cap this year. If he takes us to arbitration we could choose the one year term. I just don't see the harm in qualifying him.
Grigs has the skill, but I still doubt he would ever put it all together because of his lack of drive. Especially here with Bednar. But it's still worth the risk considering how many roster spaces and how much cap space we have. If he goes on somewhere else and puts it all together it's just going to be another blunder on Sakic's resume that could have been avoided. Not because Grigorenko looks like he's going to turn a corner, but because he was a 22 year old, NHL quality (low nhl quality mind you), former top 15 pick with skill who had a poor year on one of the worst NHL teams ever that you just let walk for nothing.
Grigs scores 27 points last year: "Let's reward him with a 1.3 million dollar contract"
Grigs scores 23 points the next year on the worst team in two decades: "What a bum, no way he deserves the same contract he put blood sweat and tears into earning last year"
I'm not arguing this because I think Grigs is worth it. I'm arguing because I just don't see what changed since last year and what the harm would be. The fact that I think Bednar played a big part in this just pisses me off more.
You answered your own question. What kind of message would it send to the team if they qualified him? Hey guys, you can float around and not put in any effort and you'll still have a job next year!
I think they even wanted to give Grigo term last year too. They just have no idea what they are trying to do.
I think they even wanted to give Grigo term last year too. They just have no idea what they are trying to do.
I'd love 4th line wingers hitting 30 points a year. If you scale up through the lines proportionally then we'd have a team resembling a cross between the Soviet Union and the Brazilian football team from the 70s. Might be a bit difficult paying everyone though.