Don Waddell flirts with Wild as Carolina Hurricanes face front-office dysfunction

[Nico the Draft Riser]

Superb analogy, on par with the rest of well thought out posts of yours.

Oh so you wont take a paycut? My how shocked I am, now just wait until Carolina hires a GM never heard of before because no one is a big enough idiot to do the work theyve been doing for years for 75%+ less

 

[Ivan13]

Oh so you wont take a paycut? My how shocked I am, now just wait until Carolina hires a GM never heard of before because no one is a big enough idiot to do the work theyve been doing for years for 75%+ less

I see your ability of deduction is top notch as well. Can’t wait for the next nugget of wisdom.

 

[Viqsi]

I think you actually described me to perfection. I'm impressed.

While i don't think the upper average fan would succeed as a GM, I do think there's a numerous amount of posters here that would make a good GM. Not a crazy number, but ~25 posters or so.

I for one think we've seen that movie recently in the form of Paul Fenton's tenure with the Wild.

* * *​

Absolutely, and there's a few posters here that know the cba inside and out and have an incredible understanding of the game and player valuations

Knowledge of the CBA and the game and player value, and knowledge of managing people in a front office, are two very different things. Again, see Paul Fenton.

* * *​

The main point everyone has is Don Waddell was **** all over when he was hired - and was hired because he was cheap

Now he may be let go because he isnt cheap enough. So what do you think the reaction and subsequent outcome will be when Dundon hired an even CHEAPER option?

Its embarrassing to the league and every other front office. Nobody is too happy with Dundon right now

Hon? Repeating the word "cheap" over and over doesn't make it stick. He's a bit of a cloud cuckoolander when it comes to priorities IMO, but he sure as hell isn't cheap. I mean, much like you, I'd prefer it if he was, because that means more opportunities for my team in an already annoyingly competitive division, but it's better to deal with reality as it is than try to talk people into thinking it's actually something that favors me and mine.

If you want to predict doom for the Canes that badly, at least try and stick to what's actually going on.

 

[tarheelhockey]

And you seriously believe this notion that GMs arent important?

I think the idea that they're just figureheads for a huge staff, with limited direct personal input on the on-ice outcomes, is actually pretty compelling.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

I see your ability of deduction is top notch as well. Can’t wait for the next nugget of wisdom.

So you think all workers who use others for information should take 75% paycuts?

Sounds about right for you

 

[Viqsi]

I think the idea that they're just figureheads for a huge staff, with limited direct personal input on the on-ice outcomes, is actually pretty compelling.

Could be, but I wouldn't dismiss them as unnecessary just because of that. The whole "people listen to a strong voice" phenomenon isn't exactly uncommon, and I wouldn't be surprised if it still has significant impact in hockey circles.

But hey, if it works out, that's cool too. I mean, it's not like we needed fewer competitive teams in the division... we can get by with a Carolina that's competent, I suppose... jerks

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

I think the idea that they're just figureheads for a huge staff, with limited direct personal input on the on-ice outcomes, is actually pretty compelling.

And how long has he been around to make such an assesment?

 

[Ivan13]

I think the idea that they're just figureheads for a huge staff, with limited direct personal input on the on-ice outcomes, is actually pretty compelling.

You and your logic.

Mind you, we are on a site where people credit the GM for things like drafting (amateur scouts don’t matter), trading (pro and amateur scouts don’t matter), cap management (capologists don’t matter) etc. It’s just one guy doing all the work.

 

[Ivan13]

So you think all workers who use others for information should take 75% paycuts?

Sounds about right for you

Yes, that is what I’m saying.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Meanwhile, Dundon has said explicitly and consistently that he doesn't think a big investment in a GM makes sense, because the important decisions are made by consensus with the use of commonly-circulated data, and the GM is simply a guy with personal connections which are a dime a dozen in this industry.

It's pretty tough to argue with that, to be honest.

Obviously the potential downside is seeing different GM's come and go all the time, making it a bit of a circus but then again, that could also be a good thing. Things never get stale and people have fresh ideas. If you really want to work for the lowest salary it means you must really want the job. You're going in, looking to do as much good as possible and then seeing where it takes you.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

Yes, that is what I’m saying.

Glad you admit it

Be thankful your team has a rich history otherwise you might get a desperate owner the same way as Dundon

 

[tarheelhockey]

And how long has he been around to make such an assesment?

I mean, look at the field of GMs and point to the guy whose reputation isn't completely inconsistent from one 5-year period to the next.

NHL teams figured this out about goalies years ago, yet we still have teams dropping $10 million on a guy they know won't perform up to that kind of money and will be a salary anchor in a few years. But they keep doing it because very few people have the balls to say "nah, we'll just go with a couple of backups and figure it out". Dundon is that guy.

 

[Ivan13]

Glad you admit it

Be thankful your team has a rich history otherwise you might get a desperate owner the same way as Dundon

At this point in time I have no idea what you are on about. It’s like sarcasm and rational thought are alien concepts lost on you. The outrageous analogies that have absolutely no basis in real life taking the cake.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Glad you admit it

Be thankful your team has a rich history otherwise you might get a desperate owner the same way as Dundon

Your posts as they relate to the Canes always brighten my day. To speak with such authority about things you clearly know little about, it's always a laugh. And usually when someone gets called out for not knowing anything, they fade away. But you double down and keep coming back for more.

I just wanted you to know that I appreciate your posts. You keep doing you.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

I mean, look at the field of GMs and point to the guy whose reputation isn't completely inconsistent from one 5-year period to the next.

NHL teams figured this out about goalies years ago, yet we still have teams dropping $10 million on a guy they know won't perform up to that kind of money and will be a salary anchor in a few years. But they keep doing it because very few people have the balls to say "nah, we'll just go with a couple of backups and figure it out". Dundon is that guy.

So the volatility of managing a consistent team in the hard cap era means GMs are worth less? now were blaming GMs for having succesful teams and subsequently drafting lower and lower?

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

I love how praise is being thrown Dundon’s way for thinking outside the box. When in reality if he wasnt such a cheapskate (which Carolina fans seem to keep arguing he isnt), then why the hell wouldnt you just pay a GM to do what you need?

Youre telling me him saving 300-750k will change his profits drastically? No? Then thats the definition of a cheapskate.

For a man who apprently throws millions in bonuses at draft picks, not paying a GM is a sad hill to die on. And he will die on it

 

[tarheelhockey]

So the volatility of managing a consistent team in the hard cap era means GMs are worth less? now were blaming GMs for having succesful teams and subsequently drafting lower and lower?

If success is hard-linked to draft position, then the GM individually has minimal ability to influence the final results.

I’m not sure if you intended to prove the point, but nice job.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I love how praise is being thrown Dundon’s way for thinking outside the box. When in reality if he wasnt such a cheapskate (which Carolina fans seem to keep arguing he isnt), then why the hell wouldnt you just pay a GM to do what you need?

Youre telling me him saving 300-750k will change his profits drastically? No? Then thats the definition of a cheapskate.

For a man who apprently throws millions in bonuses at draft picks, not paying a GM is a sad hill to die on. And he will die on it

Serious question, what’s with your unhealthy obsession with the Canes and why do you get so triggered by seemingly everything that they do? Are you upset about the last few playoff series between the teams? Are you mad they nabbed Aho right before NJ could? Something else?

Strange.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

If success is hard-linked to draft position, then the GM individually has minimal ability to influence the final results.

I’m not sure if you intended to prove the point, but nice job.

Oh so now GMs have zero say in drafting too?

Hell, why is any manager anywhere paid anything at all? Why even have managers when they do soo little?

Ive never seen a worse attempt at trying to downplay one of the most important positions in the business world - managers.

Why not let scouts go up to the podium? Why not let analytics handle contracts?
Why not let head coaches handle everything about assembling teams?

You know, where is this mindset in the NFL where coaches basically do everything? Oh thats right it doesnt happen because they know general MANAGERS are a fundamental part of a well-run business

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

It’s like any other business. If the leader has the wrong intent, poor structure and wrong individuals, the team will fail. That’s my point. You can’t conclude that just because it fails in one instance, means it will fail in another, without understanding those factors.

But that's just it, at this point we're all just giving opinions on where this might go. I'm not making any assumptions, I'm just speculating, and using my team as an example. From many years of following sports, I've seen things go well and things go down a bad road. And I'm just getting to some real warning flags from this situation. And things can go bad even with great success at the start of an ownership tenure.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

Serious question, what’s with your unhealthy obsession with the Canes and why do you get so triggered by seemingly everything that they do? Are you upset about the last few playoff series between the teams? Are you mad they nabbed Aho right before NJ could? Something else?

Strange.

I will post about anything that is claiming to be one thing but is another

Dundon wants to switch GMs but isnt a cheapskate (even though it is entirely based on salary). Dundon wants to change how front offices work (even though he has less experience than a Mike Millbury right now). Dundon thinks he can enter the league and be wildly succesful while changing the norm / but he cant and he wont. One playoff run doesn't change that

He can go ahead and hire the cheapest GM in the league. He will get the results he pays for (or doesnt pay for lmfao)

 

[Goptor]

Here at the Carolina Hurricanes we are a family. We leave egos at the door. We also give every member of our organization essential real life experience that will help them as they get older.

Don Waddell, our GM also pitches in and supports the team by driving the bus between arenas.
Rod Brind'amour, our coach, also doubles as the play-by-play announcer for our tape delayed broadcasts.
Justin Williams, our captain from last year helps everyone get hotel rooms for all of our away games and road trips.
Our rookies are even able to learn how to properly prepare and repair equipment for our games!

 

[tarheelhockey]

Oh so now GMs have zero say in drafting too?

If the GM has a heavy say in drafting, he’s doing it wrong. There’s a scouting staff and hockey ops staff for a reason. The GM should be primarily coordinating those guys and signing the paperwork.

Hell, why is any manager anywhere paid anything at all? Why even have managers when they do soo little?

I think that’s Dundon’s exact point.

Ive never seen a worse attempt at trying to downplay one of the most important positions in the business world - managers.

Except in the NHL, managers aren’t the talent. The players are the talent, and the best ones come almost automatically via high draft picks. The rest are acquired as part of a group staff effort. Development is done by the coaches and trainers. The GM shouldn’t be individually responsible for outcomes — if he is, it’s probably as a negative.

In some franchises, where the owner is an absentee or a hobbyist, you might need a stronger GM who can fully execute the business side of the shop. But that’s not the case in Carolina, where the owner himself is a business guy with more success in business administration than any of the GMs.

Why not let scouts go up to the podium? Why not let analytics handle contracts?
Why not let head coaches handle everything about assembling teams?

You know, where is this mindset in the NFL where coaches basically do everything? Oh thats right it doesnt happen because they know general MANAGERS are a fundamental part of a well-run business

Once upon a time, NHL general managers basically ran everything. There’s a reason that stopped and is rapidly moving in the opposite direction.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

If the GM has a heavy say in drafting, he’s doing it wrong. There’s a scouting staff and hockey ops staff for a reason. The GM should be primarily coordinating those guys and signing the paperwork.



I think that’s Dundon’s exact point.



Except in the NHL, managers aren’t the talent. The players are the talent, and the best ones come almost automatically via high draft picks. The rest are acquired as part of a group staff effort. Development is done by the coaches and trainers. The GM shouldn’t be individually responsible for outcomes — if he is, it’s probably as a negative.

In some franchises, where the owner is an absentee or a hobbyist, you might need a stronger GM who can fully execute the business side of the shop. But that’s not the case in Carolina, where the owner himself is a business guy with more success in business administration than any of the GMs.



Once upon a time, NHL general managers basically ran everything. There’s a reason that stopped and is rapidly moving in the opposite direction.

Than its more reason not to take Dundon seriously

Thinking his business administration experience is good enough to run a hockey club. He will join the hundreds of sports teams owners before him who thought the same who then crashed and burned

 

[FookinPuck]

The main point everyone has is Don Waddell was **** all over when he was hired - and was hired because he was cheap

Now he may be let go because he isnt cheap enough. So what do you think the reaction and subsequent outcome will be when Dundon hired an even CHEAPER option?

Its embarrassing to the league and every other front office. Nobody is too happy with Dundon right now

Are you allowed to ask another poster if they’re Pejorative Slured? Im a good ole southern boy who wouldn’t do that, even if it is within the rules, but I am just wondering.

Edit: R-word confirmed not allowed.