Does the NHL owe big market teams anything?

[Boltsfan2029]

The difference between the big market fans and the small market fans is nothing more than a perspective. The small market fans want to see the big markets crash and burn. They want to see them fall to the bottom because they feel they have been robbed of players and a legitimate team for the last 10 years. Most big markets fans don't feel that way. Most of them look forward to the Edmontons, Calgary's, Columbus, Atlanta etc competiting with them.

I have to take issue with this. I am a "small market fan." I do not want to see big markets crash and burn. Matter of fact, none of my friends who are hockey fans want this. It appears that you're saying all small market fans are the same and that is simply untrue. Some may feel that way, but I would wager most do not.

Same goes for "most big market fans" looking forward to the small market teams competing with them. The majority of large market fans that I've heard/read discussing this seem to want to see the small market teams contracted. Hopefully, as you say, "most" do not feel that way.

Perhaps both sects of fans should be classified as "the most vocal" fans of each type of market.

The mindset of these "most vocal" fans never ceases to amaze me. They seem to want to build the league by destroying it. Makes no sense. We're all in this together. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want all the teams to be healthy and competitive. I want the games to be exciting, basically evenly matched & a battle to the final whistle. I can't comprehend why anyone would want it any other way.

 

[nyr7andcounting]

You have no reason to be upset.

You have just as much reason to be upset with the future economic reality....

Well which one is it? Do I have a reason to be upset, or are you saying that you had no reason to be upset with the past economic reality?

Your team was allowed to overpay for players. It got them no where. Now they will be forced to pick better players. Looks like a good thing for you.

Its funny how big market fans always used to tell me it was a good thing my team had no money to spend. They let go overpriced players and kept younger talented guys they told me. They told me the team coulndt win anyway so it was good they couldnt afford to keep it together. They were forced to rebuild instead of waste money they said to me.

Now the big market fans are forced to give up their overpriced talent and they cry foul. Very funny indeed.

As I already said this has nothing to do with the success of my team. I watch the Rangers either way, good or bad.

I agree that those with less money generally spend it more wisely, and I wish Dolan would have realized that if he set some sort of a budget it would be the best thing for his team on AND off the ice. But he didn't do it. Between him and Smith/Sather they have been a joke for 7 years.

But as I said, the problem with my team was not the CBA, it was the people running the team. I needed Sather to get fired and Dolan to wake up, and unfortunately I still do. The lockout, and the new CBA, did not change the main problems with my team...the people running it and the price I have to pay to see it.

 

[nyr7andcounting]

I never told you you have no right to be upset.

As for what you got, you got to see as many playoff games as you did the previous seven years. I'd suggest you didnt really lose anything either.

Than why are you arguing with me?

I didn't lose ANYTHING? I lost a whole damn season for as you said, no gain.

If the Rangers cut ticket prices to the same level as Carolina because they are now spending roughly the same amount on the players I am paying to watch, than I would have no problem. Unfortunetly that will never happen.

 

[Icey]

I have to take issue with this. I am a "small market fan." I do not want to see big markets crash and burn. Matter of fact, none of my friends who are hockey fans want this. It appears that you're saying all small market fans are the same and that is simply untrue. Some may feel that way, but I would wager most do not.

Same goes for "most big market fans" looking forward to the small market teams competing with them. The majority of large market fans that I've heard/read discussing this seem to want to see the small market teams contracted. Hopefully, as you say, "most" do not feel that way.

Perhaps both sects of fans should be classified as "the most vocal" fans of each type of market.

The mindset of these "most vocal" fans never ceases to amaze me. They seem to want to build the league by destroying it. Makes no sense. We're all in this together. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want all the teams to be healthy and competitive. I want the games to be exciting, basically evenly matched & a battle to the final whistle. I can't comprehend why anyone would want it any other way.

Did you actually read the post I was responding to before you typed your response? Sorry but when someone calls me a bitter big market fan, then I suppose I need to respond. Besides I never said EVERY small market fan, but the majority on this board have done nothing over the last few months (and especially the last few weeks) laugh at the big market teams and how they will get nothing but satisfaction at watching them crash and burn. I'm glad your not one of them, but your in the minority. Just to give you an example

Good god, this forum has hit rock-bottom.

The so-called "big markets" deserve nothing. You all whine that a season was lost because of the "small-markets" without even a hint of irony, ignoring that your reckless spending is a big reason why a whole season was ruined for everyone else. Thanks!

However, the fact that Leafs/Avalanche fans et al already have a problem with the upcoming CBA is very telling. It makes me smile!

And I know of NO Big market fan that wants to see any team contracted but I do know of a few small market fans that although realize it would probably mean their team, think its the best thing to do for the league. I guess it all depends which pair of rose colored glasses your looking through.

 

[se7en*]

Again, the purpose of me looking forward to the new league has absolutely nothing to do with me wanting to see them "crash and burn".

It seems to me that big market fans are scared that they wil be forced to compete on the same playing field as the Edmonton's, the Nashville's, the Pittsburgh's out there. If I'm wrong in your instance Icey, I apologize. But seeing the conduct of most of them here, including the thread-starter, it looks like you are the exception, not the rule. I've read so many comments from Leafs fans, Detroit fans, heck even Canucks fans that small-market teams including Edmonton should be contracted.

And believe me, no Oilers fan will be using the small-market excuse as a crutch if things don't get better.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

anyone else find it ironic that Leaf fans are mad because they lost a season and fee they need to put blame on the small markets for this...

yet, the Blue Jays, one of the "small markets" in MLB would be one of the 1st teams on board for a salary cap and a better revenue sharing? I mean, how can they expect to compete with the Yanks and Red Sox in the AL East?

 

[Torch]

Hrmm the Oilers offered me 3 mil and the Wings offer 3 mil but the wings go all out to keep their players comfortable. Who would I sign with?

Players know that the reason for this owner stacked CBA is due to the fact that the small market teams wanted it and they won't forget it. I'm sure certain teams are now on most players **** list.

Even if this were true, I don't think it would work well for the players. There will still be a cap preventing teams from signing all the star players. Teams will still have to fill out their rosters. So unless every player was willing to accept "small" salaries on big market teams just to spite the small markets, there just won't be the jobs available for them.

Personally, I don't have it in for large markets at all. I don't care if they win or lose, just as long as the league as a whole is viable. As things were with the old CBA, the league was slowly dying. Teams were barely hanging on financially, and teams that couldn't afford many top end players resorted to simple, non-exciting strategies just to be successful on the ice. Whether large market fans want to admit it or not, the league would never survive with just them. They need the small markets to do well to keep the league interesting and competive.

 

[Boltsfan2029]

Besides I never said EVERY small market fan,

Which is why I said it appears that was what you were saying. You do later say I'm in the "minority" so the implication is you feel the majority of small market teams want to see big market teams fail. I still disagree with that.

And I know of NO Big market fan that wants to see any team contracted but I do know of a few small market fans that although realize it would probably mean their team, think its the best thing to do for the league. I guess it all depends which pair of rose colored glasses your looking through.

I suggest you do a search and read the threads which have dealt with contraction, or those which discuss how to solve the league's problems which inevitably lead to a discussion of contraction. I think that would be an eye opener for you.

 

[Sotnos]

And I know of NO Big market fan that wants to see any team contracted

You mustn't read this board too carefully. Just doing a quick search of only this board, someone starts a contraction thread at least once a month. Most of the time I'd say it's every two weeks. That's not to mention the team boards, for some of the more elitist among them, it's brought up weekly.

 

[ACC1224]

anyone else find it ironic that Leaf fans are mad because they lost a season and fee they need to put blame on the small markets for this...

yet, the Blue Jays, one of the "small markets" in MLB would be one of the 1st teams on board for a salary cap and a better revenue sharing? I mean, how can they expect to compete with the Yanks and Red Sox in the AL East?

no

 

[WC Handy*]

You mustn't read this board too carefully. Just doing a quick search of only this board, someone starts a contraction thread at least once a month. Most of the time I'd say it's every two weeks. That's not to mention the team boards, for some of the more elitist among them, it's brought up weekly.

Look at the bright side, now that the Bolts won the Cup your team usually isn't mentioned by everyone as one that should be contracted.

 

[WC Handy*]

anyone else find it ironic that Leaf fans are mad because they lost a season and fee they need to put blame on the small markets for this...

yet, the Blue Jays, one of the "small markets" in MLB would be one of the 1st teams on board for a salary cap and a better revenue sharing? I mean, how can they expect to compete with the Yanks and Red Sox in the AL East?

Ironic? Yes. Surprised? No. I have no doubt that many of the Leafs fans that are screaming about having to deal with a cap are saying on some other board that baseball needs a cap.

 

[ACC1224]

Ironic? Yes. Surprised? No. I have no doubt that many of the Leafs fans that are screaming about having to deal with a cap are saying on some other board that baseball needs a cap.

LINK?

 

[Boltsfan2029]

Look at the bright side, now that the Bolts won the Cup your team usually isn't mentioned by everyone as one that should be contracted.

Still is, tho, by some folks. Unbelievable, isn't it?

 

[Gnashville]

Ironic? Yes. Surprised? No. I have no doubt that many of the Leafs fans that are screaming about having to deal with a cap are saying on some other board that baseball needs a cap.

Just insert the words Phillies or Tigers instead of Blue Jays and Flyers or Red Wings instead of Leafs

 

[Gnashville]

Look at the bright side, now that the Bolts won the Cup your team usually isn't mentioned by everyone as one that should be contracted.

So winning the Cup keeps teams from being Contracted. Tell that to the Leafs (1967), Flyers (1975), Bruins (1972), Blackhawks (1961) and Blues (Never)
Maybe they should be contracted first

 

[ryz]

LINK?

WC Handy - "Ironic? Yes. Surprised? No. I have no doubt that many of the Leafs fans that are screaming about having to deal with a cap are saying on some other board that baseball needs a cap."

Where does he mention in his opinion that he has a link to anything resembling hard proof? To play your little game, show me a link refuting his opinion with some cold hard facts. Please.

 

[NYIsles1*]

Dallas doesn't lose money. They lost $300,000 last season due to their early playoff exit, but in previous years they made money. Philadelphia also makes money.

Due to their early playoff exit? All due repect but they built a new building in Dallas loaded with luxury boxes and have the seats filled from what I understand, going to the playoffs still could not generate them a profit and Hicks is complaining about losses?

Dallas should be making twenty million by accident NOT going to the playoffs under any circumstances.

Mr Sinder came out a week or so after hosting four home games in the conference finals complaining his team lost too much money in a modern building sold-out for every game. He's done this other years without a possible work-stoppage.

This is why things are shut down.

 

[Bobs your uncle]

And the big markets don't owe the dregs one penny either. Hell Edmonton has been supported through the NHL's welfare system (Canadian Equalization) for the past few years. I just hope the profits from the big teams are not shared with teams that don't deserve a team in the first place. And thats about 10 teams in the NHL

Ottawa & Toronto also receive equalization payments to address the difference between the dollar values.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

no

please elaborate...

 

[Torch]

Ottawa & Toronto also receive equalization payments to address the difference between the dollar values.

Toronto didnt. Neither did Montreal.

Only Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, and Ottawa received the currency equalization (which was not a true "equalization").

Also, Bettman already stated that this would NOT be renewed.

 

[Hasbro]

Toronto didnt. Neither did Montreal.

Only Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, and Ottawa received the currency equalization (which was not a true "equalization").

Also, Bettman already stated that this would NOT be renewed.

With the concesions made in the CBA and the gains by the Canadian dollar that does make sense.

 

[Icey]

Due to their early playoff exit? All due repect but they built a new building in Dallas loaded with luxury boxes and have the seats filled from what I understand, going to the playoffs still could not generate them a profit and Hicks is complaining about losses?

Dallas should be making twenty million by accident NOT going to the playoffs under any circumstances.

Mr Sinder came out a week or so after hosting four home games in the conference finals complaining his team lost too much money in a modern building sold-out for every game. He's done this other years without a possible work-stoppage.

This is why things are shut down.

I wouldn't exactly say the AAC is LOADED with luxury boxes, but there isn't a team in this league that makes $20M let alone by ACCIDENT and that includes Toronto. And the new arena the seats are not always filled. Many times yes, but many games they are half empty, afterall who wants to watch a Stars vs. Isles game.

Things are shut down for a number of reason, but the Stars losing $300,000 in ONE season is hardly a major one. And for the record, I have never ONCE heard Mr. Hicks complain about losing money last year, not once. Him losing money is simply a matter of public record.

 

[Icey]

You mustn't read this board too carefully. Just doing a quick search of only this board, someone starts a contraction thread at least once a month. Most of the time I'd say it's every two weeks. That's not to mention the team boards, for some of the more elitist among them, it's brought up weekly.

I know of no one in Dallas that is a STH holder that feels small market teams should go away. I learned a long time ago most who post on message rarely attend games (notice the word MOST there). It is hardly a fair sampling of the big market fan just as it's hardly a fair sampling from small market fans.

And as often as someone starts a contraction thread is another thread bashing players, yet everyone says that doesn't happen. Another thread of how great it will be under the new CBA when large market teams will have to sell off all their big name players just to stay under the cap, but that doesn't happen either.

Your point was???????????

 

[NYIsles1*]

I wouldn't exactly say the AAC is LOADED with luxury boxes, but there isn't a team in this league that makes $20M let alone by ACCIDENT and that includes Toronto.

Actually the only team that made reported profits near 20m was Vancouver and Minnesota in 2002-03 when they went to the conference finals. If we had a majority of teams making a ten million dollar profit with some making 20-30m in profit none of this would have been necessary.

And the new arena the seats are not always filled. Many times yes, but many games they are half empty, afterall who wants to watch a Stars vs. Isles game..

That 4-4 game the Isles played in Dallas was a pretty good game in 2003-04.

Things are shut down for a number of reason, but the Stars losing $300,000 in ONE season is hardly a major one..

Your missing the point. In a new building going to the playoffs something must be wrong for this team and several others to not only be making huge profits but outright losing money.

And for the record, I have never ONCE heard Mr. Hicks complain about losing money last year, not once. Him losing money is simply a matter of public record.

http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/CBA/2-15-05cba3.htm

On whether he regrets some of the deals he agreed to
​

"Sure. Sure. I think the Stars have been one of the guilty parties. We pay Mike Modano $9 million. We pay Bill Guerin $8.5 to $9 million for a long-term contract. It was a lot of fun to win the Stanley Cup. Our fans loved it. We loved it. We said, 'Let's try it again.' What happened is our fans quit paying the prices. All of sudden our payroll didn't stop rising and our ability to pass it onto fans did. Our fans said enough is enough."
​

http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2003/1208/nhl_2.html