Does Rogie Vachon belong in the HOF

[Tavaresmagicalplay*]

Well I never saw him play but the "All time kings team" thread reminded me that On saturday the kings held a ceremony for what seemed like no other reason that to lobby Rogie Vachon for the hof. It was short, but made some pretty good points. He's got better numbers than the vast majority of goalies in the hall so why is he not in and does he deserve to be in?

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[Canadiens1958]

Rogie Vachon

Well I never saw him play but the "All time kings team" thread reminded me that On saturday the kings held a ceremony for what seemed like no other reason that to lobby Rogie Vachon for the hof. It was short, but made some pretty good points. He's got better numbers than the vast majority of goalies in the hall so why is he not in and does he deserve to be in?

Saw Rogie Vachon play from his junior MMJHL days and his biggrst obstacle is that one never knew which Rogie Vachon would show up.

Lacked the consistency that you would expect from a HHOF goalie.

 

[Crosbyfan]

Well I never saw him play but the "All time kings team" thread reminded me that On saturday the kings held a ceremony for what seemed like no other reason that to lobby Rogie Vachon for the hof. It was short, but made some pretty good points. He's got better numbers than the vast majority of goalies in the hall so why is he not in and does he deserve to be in?

I can't see it, though I think he had a great career. Given the same talent level in a bigger goalie and he might have made it.

 

[Chumley]

He has the numbers, but no cup. I'd like to see him in.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

He's got better numbers than the vast majority of goalies in the hall

This flat-out isn't true.

Having said that, I'd put him in the HHOF.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Two Cups

He has the numbers, but no cup. I'd like to see him in.

Rogie Vachon was the main goalie on the 1969 SC winning Canadiens plus a member of the 1968 team.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I've seen him talked about before as the best goalie not in the HHOF, but what makes him better than Tom Barrasso?

 

[Canadiens1958]

HHOF Candidate

I've seen him talked about before as the best goalie not in the HHOF, but what makes him better than Tom Barrasso?

Depends on how much weight you want to give international performance. Barrasso cannot match Vachon internationally given Vachon's 1976 Canada Cup showing.

NHL only - slight edge to Barrasso especially during his two SCs with the Penguins.

 

[edog37]

He deserves to be in much more than Ciccarelli does....

 

[Scott1980]

Well I never saw him play but the "All time kings team" thread reminded me that On saturday the kings held a ceremony for what seemed like no other reason that to lobby Rogie Vachon for the hof. It was short, but made some pretty good points. He's got better numbers than the vast majority of goalies in the hall so why is he not in and does he deserve to be in?

They didn't even mention the 1976 CC, did they? I was watching that and turned to a friend and pointed that out.

 

[justsomeguy]

Nice to see the Kings lobby for him in public. Would have no objection to his inclusion at all.

 

[DaveG]

would love to see either him or Barrasso get in this year. Vachon is far more likely given Barrasso's reputation and the way he got along with the media as a player.

 

[kmad]

would love to see either him or Barrasso get in this year. Vachon is far more likely given Barrasso's reputation and the way he got along with the media as a player.

Belfour over both of them.

I don't think Vachon is a HOF goalie.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Belfour over both of them.

Hopefully that's not even in question.

 

[Big Phil]

With Rogie it's almost like the Fred Shero syndrome. You almost FORGET that he isn't in the HHOF.

That being said he certainly does belong and in my mind is the best goalie not in there. This is a guy who played on some great teams with the Habs, and some lousy teams with the Kings. He is an example of a guy who still did extremely well playing on lousy teams. He was 2nd in Hart Trophy voting in 1975. 4th in 1977. Both those years he was a 2nd team all-star. He was stellar in the 1976 Canada Cup. He won three Cups (one as a backup who didnt play, one as the main goalie and the other as a backup who didn't play very much)

Not to mention 355 career wins which put him in elite company at the time of his retirement and is still very high on the all-time list. Honestly, just look at the roster for that 1975 Kings team, it was awful. Now we know Chris Osgood did very average on a non-Detroit team but Vachon was a star around the NHL on a terrible team and yet he's still on the outside looking in. I don't get it.

 

[tony d]

Yes Vachon belong in the Hall. 355 Career Wins. A key role in a Stanley Cup victory for a team. Best goalie in L.A. Kings history. Hope he gets inducted this year.

 

[Epsilon]

I don't like to use the "better than the worst player" method of argument, but in this case it's worth pointing out that Vachon was better than Gerry Cheevers, who played in the exact same era.

 

[Canadiens Fan]

Here are a couple of quick links to articles (long and detailed) advocating Vachon as a Hall of Famer.

http://www.habsworld.net/article.php?id=1511

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2008/01/making-case-for-rogie-in-hall.html

Keep in mind that Vachon is the only goalie in the decade of the 1970's to place in the top three on two seperate occasions when votes were being counted for the Hart Trophy. Not bad considering that this was the era of Dryden, Parent, Esposito, etc ...

In 1975 he finished second in voting to Bobby Clarke (and ahead of Bobby Orr, Bernie Parent, and Guy Lafleur - who finished 3rd, 4th, and 5th respectively). In 1977 he finished third in voting to Guy Lafleur and Bobby Clarke (and ahead of Borje Salming, Larry Robinson, Marcel Dionne, and Gilbert Perreault, who finished 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th respectively). Pretty elite company.

Add in the 1976 Canada Cup MVP, and the playoff runs in 1967 & 1969, culminating in a Stanley Cup w/the Canadiens in 1969 and his underappreciated and largely unrecognized role in growing the sport on the West Coast and I personally find it hard to believe how he is not enshrined in the Hall of Fame when a contemporary like Gerry Cheevers for example, is.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Rogie Vachon Comparables

Here are a couple of quick links to articles (long and detailed) advocating Vachon as a Hall of Famer.

http://www.habsworld.net/article.php?id=1511

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2008/01/making-case-for-rogie-in-hall.html

Keep in mind that Vachon is the only goalie in the decade of the 1970's to place in the top three on two seperate occasions when votes were being counted for the Hart Trophy. Not bad considering that this was the era of Dryden, Parent, Esposito, etc ...

In 1975 he finished second in voting to Bobby Clarke (and ahead of Bobby Orr, Bernie Parent, and Guy Lafleur - who finished 3rd, 4th, and 5th respectively). In 1977 he finished third in voting to Guy Lafleur and Bobby Clarke (and ahead of Borje Salming, Larry Robinson, Marcel Dionne, and Gilbert Perreault, who finished 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th respectively). Pretty elite company.

Add in the 1976 Canada Cup MVP, and the playoff runs in 1967 & 1969, culminating in a Stanley Cup w/the Canadiens in 1969 and his underappreciated and largely unrecognized role in growing the sport on the West Coast and I personally find it hard to believe how he is not enshrined in the Hall of Fame when a contemporary like Gerry Cheevers for example, is.

Rogie Vachon comparables are tricky.

Basically he compares very favourably with Harry Lumley a member of the HHOF:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/l/lumleha01.html

But using the same reasoning as you posted - Hart etc he drifts towards Al Rollins not a HHOFer:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/r/rollial01.html

who won a Hart over arguably stronger competition but was moved from a SC quality team to Chicago for Lumley yet whose performance in Chicago helped keep the franchise afloat.

Suspect it is the Al Rollins comparison that is making enshrinement problematic.

 

[Crosbyfan]

Here are a couple of quick links to articles (long and detailed) advocating Vachon as a Hall of Famer.

http://www.habsworld.net/article.php?id=1511

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2008/01/making-case-for-rogie-in-hall.html

Keep in mind that Vachon is the only goalie in the decade of the 1970's to place in the top three on two seperate occasions when votes were being counted for the Hart Trophy. Not bad considering that this was the era of Dryden, Parent, Esposito, etc ...

In 1975 he finished second in voting to Bobby Clarke (and ahead of Bobby Orr, Bernie Parent, and Guy Lafleur - who finished 3rd, 4th, and 5th respectively). In 1977 he finished third in voting to Guy Lafleur and Bobby Clarke (and ahead of Borje Salming, Larry Robinson, Marcel Dionne, and Gilbert Perreault, who finished 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th respectively). Pretty elite company.

Add in the 1976 Canada Cup MVP, and the playoff runs in 1967 & 1969, culminating in a Stanley Cup w/the Canadiens in 1969 and his underappreciated and largely unrecognized role in growing the sport on the West Coast and I personally find it hard to believe how he is not enshrined in the Hall of Fame when a contemporary like Gerry Cheevers for example, is.

Why are you adding in Bobby Orr?

 

[DaveG]

Belfour over both of them.

I don't think Vachon is a HOF goalie.

Yeah definitely not arguing against Eddie. He should be there this year as well.

 

[Canadiens Fan]

Why are you adding in Bobby Orr?

Sorry, my mistake - Vachon was named as the most valuable player for Team Canada in the 1976 Canada Cup. Orr was named as the tournament's MVP.

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

The only HOF goalie that I've seen that I might rank Vachon ahead of is Cheevers, but there are probably a few other guys I'd rank above Cheevers as well and they won't get in. Cheevers inclusion shows how being liked and being a great guy can pay huge dividends. Barasso was probably better than both, but he was an ass, and in the long run that will likely hurt his chances.

 

[MXD]

Well... Two goalies will get in sooner or later, and hopefully as soon as they're up for voting (Belfour, Hasek). Brodeur will also get in, though I fully expect another 6 years before it happens.

He'd be a marginal HHOF goalie, but goalies are somewhat underrepresented...

I hope Vachon's case (and Lorne Chabot as well) will be made when Curtis Joseph will be discussed (and we know he will). I'm not even sure Chris Joseph has a better case than Dave Kerr...

 

[Hardyvan123]

Depends on how much weight you want to give international performance. Barrasso cannot match Vachon internationally given Vachon's 1976 Canada Cup showing.

NHL only - slight edge to Barrasso especially during his two SCs with the Penguins.

not sure how much weight we can really give to 7 games, especially with the gap between the top teams (Canada, Czechs and the USSR compared to the weakness of the swedes, USA and Fins)) back in 76

Belfour over both of them.

I don't think Vachon is a HOF goalie.

I agree with Belfour going in but not really sure about Vachon because if he does get in then it just opens up the door some more.

But that might be a good thing since goalies are under represented in the Hall IMO.

At the end of the day he probably would make my Hall