Speculation: Does MLSE dictate how the team is *allowed* to behave on the ice?

[WTFMAN99]

I'll elaborate further, are players that come in such as Matt Martin, Wayne Simmonds and now Ryan Reaves allowed to play the game the way they would like to or have in the past?

I'm just wondering if this comes from up top at ownership, management or coaching level?

The last time I can recall us being a particularly gritty / violent team we had Orr, McLaren and Fraser on the roster.

Is the team trying to be "nice" for family and kids etc coming to see the team? God, I hope it's not as stupid as that.

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[Jozay]

No, people just overrate the impact of guys like Simmonds, Reaves etc

The difference between now and those Leafs teams with Orr and Mclaren etc was that others team also had dudes who were there just to fight. Not as common now.

 

[TMLife17]

A) MLSE
B) Shanahan
C) Keefe
D) The Team Leaders

I say we get rid of all 4. I have been waiting to watch our Leafs play hockey for a decade now. Where are the Leafs who finish checks, brawl, and just genuinely give a f***!? Somehow Kessel's team was more inspiring than this group LOL

 

[WTFMAN99]

No, people just overrate the impact of guys like Simmonds, Reaves etc

The difference between now and those Leafs teams with Orr and Mclaren etc was that others team also had dudes who were there just to fight. Not as common now.

The 4th line seemed like it had an identity.

Orr nearly kills Plekanec - yes kinda dirty with the knee stuff but christ it's better to see us initiate than worry about retaliating.

Bourque came poking his nose in and gets levelled. You're not wrong in that the enforcer was still around but can we not get a watered/modern down version of that? A guy that can play, hit and fight?

 

[Cor]

No, people just overrate the impact of guys like Simmonds, Reaves etc

The difference between now and those Leafs teams with Orr and Mclaren etc was that others team also had dudes who were there just to fight. Not as common now.

Ultimately it’s this.

Whether one likes it or not the game has changed and it’s changed quickly.

There’s very few enforcers left in the game. It limits what someone like Ryan Reaves can do.

But honestly, look at Ryan Reaves hockey fights profile. From 18-19 through 21-22 he only had 3 fights each season. Last time he hit double digits was the 13-14 season. Last year he had 7, which was the most since 14-15.

He just doesn’t fight that much anymore, because of the reasons above

 

[Menzinger]

Imo I think part of the problem is fans have developed an exaggerated mental image of what they think these guys can do (it's not 1995 anymore).

The league has structurally changed to reduce fighting over the years.

And the fact is, unless the other team has another fighter in the lineup, you're not going to see a scrap. A top 9F/4D player isn't going to take themselves out of the game for 5 minutes to fight a 4th liner like Reaves or Simmonds.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Obviously they do not but there is certainly something to be said about guys who have a reputation for playing hard-nosed hockey coming here and turning into complete bitches. Not sure if it’s a coaching thing, a locker room thing or what but something is definitely going on. I just doubt there is some directive from the very higher ups.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Imo I think part of the problem is fans have developed an exaggerated mental image of what they think these guys can do (it's not 1995 anymore).

The league has structurally changed to reduce fighting over the years.

And the fact is, unless the other team has another fighter in the lineup, you're not going to see a scrap. A top 9F/4D player isn't going to take themselves out of the game for 5 minutes to fight a 4th liner like Reaves or Simmonds.

I do agree with you to an extent. It’s hard to deny though that we play an exceptionally soft game even by todays standards. Almost every other team out there would have some push back seeing their guy go down like Liljegren did. Even clean hits these days draw responses a lot of the time but we generally do nothing and just skate away. And it seems no matter who we bring in, the overall culture and style of our play doesn’t change in that regard which is strange.

 

[Suntouchable13]

If they do, then why are they signing a guy like Reaves? You can't sign him, and just tell him to be a choir boy. I don't get it.

 

[Leafidelity]

Imo I think part of the problem is fans have developed an exaggerated mental image of what they think these guys can do (it's not 1995 anymore).

The league has structurally changed to reduce fighting over the years.

And the fact is, unless the other team has another fighter in the lineup, you're not going to see a scrap. A top 9F/4D player isn't going to take themselves out of the game for 5 minutes to fight a 4th liner like Reaves or Simmonds.

Someone should have told Treliving this, because I dont see any other reason for Ryan Reaves to exist

 

[Leafblooded]

2.5 million dollar bench warmer and cd changer

 

[Apex Predator]

The 4th line seemed like it had an identity.

Orr nearly kills Plekanec - yes kinda dirty with the knee stuff but christ it's better to see us initiate than worry about retaliating.

Bourque came poking his nose in and gets levelled. You're not wrong in that the enforcer was still around but can we not get a watered/modern down version of that? A guy that can play, hit and fight?

In this video those Montreal players were not fighters but they stood up for their team mate. I think fans just want to see the leaf players stand up for team mates and their selves when situations like this happen.

 

[WTFMAN99]

In this video those Montreal players were not fighters but they stood up for their team mate. I think fans just want to see the leaf players stand up for team mates and their selves when situations like this happen.

Yep - if you're those Montreal players, you can at least hold your head high as a teammate you were there them.

 

[ACC1224]

No, people just overrate the impact of guys like Simmonds, Reaves etc

The difference between now and those Leafs teams with Orr and Mclaren etc was that others team also had dudes who were there just to fight. Not as common now.

It wasn't the 'people who overrate the impact' that brought Reaves or Simmonds in.

 

[wingman75]

It wasn't the 'people who overrate the impact' that brought Reaves or Simmonds in.

It would seem to me that this is the second GM that looks at this roster and feels they need some toughness in the mix. Regardless if they bring in the wrong person or not, this would align with the 'people who overrate the impact' based on most comments in this sub-forum.

The problem is, unless the leaders of this team get ball implants, cause they clearly have none, things will forever remain the same. Fringe toughness is worthless in the big picture.

As for the thread title, I don't think they do... unless the team is completely out of hand and guys are running around injuring people; seems they have nothing to worry about.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

It's someone from the top. Too many coaches and players have come and gone to ignore it at this point. Sorry but our defenseman got severely injured last night by probably the biggest d-bag in the league in a gutless move and not ONE teammate stood up? Not acceptable. Getting really, really sour on this lineup now. Even if it comes from management or admin, someone should still have done something. Now Boston knows they can just do it again without consequences. Unbelievable. And any Boston lurkers in here: f*** you. Not interested.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Imo I think part of the problem is fans have developed an exaggerated mental image of what they think these guys can do (it's not 1995 anymore).

The league has structurally changed to reduce fighting over the years.

And the fact is, unless the other team has another fighter in the lineup, you're not going to see a scrap. A top 9F/4D player isn't going to take themselves out of the game for 5 minutes to fight a 4th liner like Reaves or Simmonds.

Really? Because I see videos posted almost daily of other teams throwing down over even clean checks. I'm not exaggerating. Other teams stand up for their teammates. When was he last time we had a Leaf stand up for a teammate? David Clarkson maybe?

 

[nuck]

I'll elaborate further, are players that come in such as Matt Martin, Wayne Simmonds and now Ryan Reaves allowed to play the game the way they would like to or have in the past?

I'm just wondering if this comes from up top at ownership, management or coaching level?

The last time I can recall us being a particularly gritty / violent team we had Orr, McLaren and Fraser on the roster.

Is the team trying to be "nice" for family and kids etc coming to see the team? God, I hope it's not as stupid as that.

No. Its more like Keefe doesn't know how to use that sort of player, except as an occasional weapon. He likes fleet of foot players who push the pace. A younger Zack Kassian maybe fits his method. When they do the Xs and Os on the board with what to do when you have possession I suspect its the same for bottom 6 as for the top line. For Holl as for Klinger. I really couldn't understand what Tre though Keefe would do with Reaves altho I think SK may have asked for such an add.

Orr, Fraser and McLaren wouldn't have a place in todays game with any coach. One per team now it seems.

Really? Because I see videos posted almost daily of other teams throwing down over even clean checks. I'm not exaggerating. Other teams stand up for their teammates. When was he last time we had a Leaf stand up for a teammate? David Clarkson maybe?

Foligno after the JT knee to the head I think.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

No. Its more like Keefe doesn't know how to use that sort of player, except as an occasional weapon. He likes fleet of foot players who push the pace. A younger Zack Kassian maybe fits his method. When they do the Xs and Os on the board with what to do when you have possession I suspect its the same for bottom 6 as for the top line. For Holl as for Klinger. I really couldn't understand what Tre though Keefe would do with Reaves altho I think SK may have asked for such an add.

Orr, Fraser and McLaren wouldn't have a place in todays game with any coach. One per team now it seems.


Foligno after the JT knee to the head I think.

True, thanks. But am I wrong to think there's a reason guys like Foligno and O'Reilly don't re-sign here?

 

[kevsh]

I don't know how much influence MLSE has beyond who the GM can sign/give huge money too, etc., but the team sure plays like a corporation on the ice.

For those of us hoping for a change with the on-ice "product" it's likely never going to happen until this team gets an owner whose #1 priority is to win. And that means the owner telling the President of Hockey Ops that his mandate is to build a Cup contender and how successful is he is at that is (solely) how he will be judged.

If he fails, he's gone.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I don't know how much influence MLSE has beyond who the GM can sign/give huge money too, etc., but the team sure plays like a corporation on the ice.

For those of us hoping for a change with the on-ice "product" it's likely never going to happen until this team gets an owner whose #1 priority is to win. And that means the owner telling the President of Hockey Ops that his mandate is to build a Cup contender and how successful is he is at that is (solely) how he will be judged.

If he fails, he's gone.

There are so few people on this planet that would have such an interest in outright buying this team but I would love to see it.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

The Leafs are softer than old man Tanenbaum is without the Viagra.

They've been a team of manginas for years. A bunch of wimps that won't stand up for themselves or each other. It doesn't matter who the coach or GM is either.

They play the same way regardless.

The directive is clearly coming from above. Shanahan is worried his precious little babies will get their brains scrambled like he did if they fight. Given how dumb Shanahan appears to be he might actually be on to something.

There's no men on this team.

Just a bunch of little kids. A truckload of soft tits. If you're wondering how it ever got like this the answer is simple.

Look at the guy who's in charge.

 

[Leafs87]

Ultimately it’s this.

Whether one likes it or not the game has changed and it’s changed quickly.

There’s very few enforcers left in the game. It limits what someone like Ryan Reaves can do.

But honestly, look at Ryan Reaves hockey fights profile. From 18-19 through 21-22 he only had 3 fights each season. Last time he hit double digits was the 13-14 season. Last year he had 7, which was the most since 14-15.

He just doesn’t fight that much anymore, because of the reasons above

Fighting is the secondary concern. He should be hitting and responding physically to shit like Marchand yesterday. I’m not asking him to go and engage an unwilling combatant but go out there and throw your weight at their players after that Lil bs

 

[zoA]

There’s definitely something happening cause players with grit come here and lose it pretty quickly. I don’t care about fighting at this point, but I would love a heavy forecheck with speed, scrums to defend the front of the net or teammates, and at the very least trying to lay a solid hit on a player who injures one of ours. No one on our team takes a number and that’s pathetic to me. This is the most skilled team (era) we’ve ever had, but those blue collar teams with Sundin at the helm felt a lot more likeable to me.

For the topic at hand, my personal belief is that it comes from Keefe. You would think that with Keefe and Shanahan’s past play it wouldn’t be like this, but here we are.

 

[Racer88]

The real problem is our core players are not committed enough to play hard nose tough style hockey. You have to really “want” it to win in this league and these guys are not those guys. If Tre resigns Will and then Marner we are going to have to suffer thru 4-5 more years of this. It’s going to get pretty ugly