Does Henrik Zetterberg have a shot at the Hall?

[begbeee]

From the glorious 4 of two-way wingers of his generation he has IMO the weakest case.
Would be interesting to rank Alfredsson, Elias, Hossa and Zetterberg. Obviously, I don't believe all of them will go to HHOF, on the other hand one or two will probably make it...

 

[Reds4Life]

Zetterberg is a great player, but not HHoF calibre. He only had one elite season.

Datsyuk, on the other hand, is already a lock.

 

[we like our team*]

arguing with eva is an exercise in futility

zetterberg probably should have won at least one selke during his peak. his defense isn't quite as good now.

 

[tony d]

He's been a very good player during his career but I doubt he'll make the Hall of Fame.

 

[Plural]

Doubt that he makes it.

By the way, what is the difference between Elias and Z?

Elias has been consistently a bit better offensive performer and Zetterberg might take the defensive side by a bit.

Are those two guys seriously so close to each others as I seem to think? (which is very close)

 

[lazerbullet]

Zetterberg is a great player, but not HHoF calibre. He only had one elite season.

Datsyuk, on the other hand, is already a lock.

Depends how you define term "elite". In my eyes being ppg and excellent defensive forward is already elite. At the very least I would take such forward over some other who may score 10-15 points more, but offers nothing else. Then add that Zetterberg has always delivered in the playoffs. So he most certainly had more than one elite season, unless you set a bar extremely high.

 

[we like our team*]

Doubt that he makes it.

By the way, what is the difference between Elias and Z?

Elias has been consistently a bit better offensive performer and Zetterberg might take the defensive side by a bit.

Are those two guys seriously so close to each others as I seem to think? (which is very close)

zetterberg has been a consistent 70+ pt forward since the lockout

elias' totals seem to jump around a bit year to year

 

[Big Phil]

I am in the camp that thinks he probably makes it when the dust has settled. I think most of us can agree on Datsyuk more or less getting in there, and he is still producing. However, Zetterberg is still a very good player. If you throw in his strong defensive play coupled with his playoff portfolio then I think it is looking good for him. The guy won a Smythe, was pretty much one game away from winning another one and has routinely been a better playoff performer than Datsyuk. I am of the belief that Datsyuk is darn close to being the "HHOFer if he retired today" type of player. Zetterberg isn't there yet, but he can be in a few years.

 

[pdd]

Listen, I actually do think there is a case that Zetterberg's overall game makes him as valuable as Pavel Bure. But if you want to be taken seriously, you probably shouldn't abuse statistics like this. I find it really hard to believe that you seriously think giving Zetterberg credit for 100 adjusted points in 2004-05 is fair when he only hit that level once in his career (in 2007-08) and never came close in any other season.

Actually, giving him credit for 100 is a mistake looking at it; I had intended to "copy" his 05-06 season. But looking back at his stat sheet on HR, his "100" year was 07-08 (which I probably should have realized when originally posting) and his 05-06 was 83 in 77, so it's 17 points down and two more games.

776 in 812, for 78 per 82.

Definitely down a notch from 84, and a ways from Bure's 91.

But there's still the fact that Zetterberg has been playing Selke-type defense his whole career where Bure was a liability.

As for the "hardware" comment made earlier... Bure got in with Richard trophies and nothing else. Zetterberg has a Conn Smythe. Gartner, Oates, Howe and Sundin have nothing.

All of those players belong in the Hall. Trophy counting shouldn't be the way in or the way to judge a great player.

 

[pdd]

From the glorious 4 of two-way wingers of his generation he has IMO the weakest case.
Would be interesting to rank Alfredsson, Elias, Hossa and Zetterberg. Obviously, I don't believe all of them will go to HHOF, on the other hand one or two will probably make it...

Of course he has the weakest case among wingers... he's a center who played amazing hockey the first few years of his career converted to the LW, before taking on centering his own line during the 07-08 season and playoffs.

 

[pdd]

I am in the camp that thinks he probably makes it when the dust has settled. I think most of us can agree on Datsyuk more or less getting in there, and he is still producing. However, Zetterberg is still a very good player. If you throw in his strong defensive play coupled with his playoff portfolio then I think it is looking good for him. The guy won a Smythe, was pretty much one game away from winning another one and has routinely been a better playoff performer than Datsyuk. I am of the belief that Datsyuk is darn close to being the "HHOFer if he retired today" type of player. Zetterberg isn't there yet, but he can be in a few years.

I would say that for most of their career, the difference in overall performance between Datsyuk and Zetterberg has been paper thin. So if you think Datsyuk is a lock now, Zetterberg is a lock a year from now assuming he continues his "normal" level of play.

Zetterberg captaining a team, especially an O6 team, also helps his HHOF case.

 

[pdd]

By the way, what is the difference between Elias and Z?

Elias has been consistently a bit better offensive performer and Zetterberg might take the defensive side by a bit.

Are those two guys seriously so close to each others as I seem to think? (which is very close)

They are close, but I would say Z has an edge. During Zetterberg's career (not including this season) Zetterberg has a 32-19-51 advantage in 21 more games played. Zetterberg has finished 6th and 8th in scoring, Elias 6th and 10th. Both are currently top-ten in scoring.

And topping it all off, both can effectively play all three forward positions.

Even though he entered the league first, I have long considered Elias to be NJ's version of Zetterberg.

 

[Hardyvan123]

From the glorious 4 of two-way wingers of his generation he has IMO the weakest case.
Would be interesting to rank Alfredsson, Elias, Hossa and Zetterberg. Obviously, I don't believe all of them will go to HHOF, on the other hand one or two will probably make it...

I think it's better than 50/50 that all 4 guys make the HHOF.

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

No way.

Although there have been a few picks of his calibre, in general the bar is a lot higher. Eric Lindros is still on the outside looking in. If you want a Red Wing in there, make a case for Sergei Fedorov first.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

No way.

Although there have been a few picks of his calibre, in general the bar is a lot higher. Eric Lindros is still on the outside looking in. If you want a Red Wing in there, make a case for Sergei Fedorov first.

Yeah pal, Fedorov is a lock. What's next, make a case of Lidstrom?

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

Yeah pal, Fedorov is a lock. What's next, make a case of Lidstrom?

No, Lidstrom is a lock.

Pal.

 

[pdd]

No way.

Although there have been a few picks of his calibre, in general the bar is a lot higher. Eric Lindros is still on the outside looking in. If you want a Red Wing in there, make a case for Sergei Fedorov first.

Ok.

Fedorov holds the NHL record for most consecutive 20-point playoff seasons at 4.

Fedorov is the only player to win the Hart and the Selke in the same season (1993-94) and he also won the Pearson, and was second in points and third in goals.

He scored 483-696-1179 in 1248 while winning two Selkes and finishing in the top five a few other times, including a second place finish in 1992 where he took the most first-place votes.

Fedorov played three years in the KHL; he originally went to the KHL in 2009 so he could play with his brother Fedor. So it's entirely conceivable that he could have broken 500, 700, and 1200 had he stayed in the NHL.

As for Lindros... I don't think he'll affect Zetterberg's HHOF chances seriously. Lindros retired after 2006-07. He's was eligible for the 2010, 2011, 2012, and now the 2013 class. Zetterberg is a top-five player in the league and has nine more years on his contract. Even if he quit early, he still play probably at least five. That means he's not even eligible until 2020 at the earliest. If Lindros is still kicking around in the "not elected" bucket in 2020, I think it's a point in Zetterberg's favor.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Federov is a lock. No doubt there. Him and Zetterberg are in different leagurs

 

[Plural]

No way.

Although there have been a few picks of his calibre, in general the bar is a lot higher. Eric Lindros is still on the outside looking in. If you want a Red Wing in there, make a case for Sergei Fedorov first.

Fedorov does not need us for making a case for him. He is a mortal lock.

Lindros is not competing in the same area as Zetterberg.

 

[icKx]

I'm curious as to why people consider Datsyuk a lock and Z as a long shot when they have very similar regular season numbers but Z is much closer to PPG in the playoffs.

Datsyuk does have more hardware but one Smythe is worth multiple Selkes, imo.

 

[flyingsouth]

I'm curious as to why people consider Datsyuk a lock and Z as a long shot when they have very similar regular season numbers but Z is much closer to PPG in the playoffs.

Datsyuk does have more hardware but one Smythe is worth multiple Selkes, imo.

Datsyuk is one of the most skilled players the game has ever seen. Their numbers might be similar, but Z, despite being a great player in his own right, has never wowed audiences the way Datsyuk can.

Whether that makes Datsyuk a lock or simply makes people more ready to believe that he is is possibly the larger question.

 

[pdd]

Datsyuk is one of the most skilled players the game has ever seen. Their numbers might be similar, but Z, despite being a great player in his own right, has never wowed audiences the way Datsyuk can.

Whether that makes Datsyuk a lock or simply makes people more ready to believe that he is is possibly the larger question.

Datsyuk is definitely the flashier player. But as I said, their playing level has been very close their entire career since Z entered the league. Given Z's significantly superior playoff history, one would think that this might actually vault him above Datsyuk.

I wonder what their numbers are on pnep's HHOF monitor.

 

[flyingsouth]

Datsyuk is definitely the flashier player. But as I said, their playing level has been very close their entire career since Z entered the league. Given Z's significantly superior playoff history, one would think that this might actually vault him above Datsyuk.

I wonder what their numbers are on pnep's HHOF monitor.

FWIW, I think they both belong.

 

[pdd]

I'm curious as to why people consider Datsyuk a lock and Z as a long shot when they have very similar regular season numbers but Z is much closer to PPG in the playoffs.

More importantly, since the 2005 lockout Z has always or almost always (2009, Osgood; 2011, Datsyuk - Z missed the first round injured) been the most valuable player on the Wings in the playoffs.

As I mentioned, Datsyuk was the most important player in 2011 playoffs. But he has had several where he was somewhat disappointing; Zetterberg has not had that. Last year against Nashville was his first sub-PPG playoff since 2007, and only the third of his career. That's a significant argument that Zetterberg has been the better player when it matters. And before I hear any "yeah but Johan Franzen" arguments... Franzen hasn't had a good playoff since 2010.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

re: the goring/elias thread, might zetterberg be a rich man's goring in an age of increased parity?