Does attitude matter?

[SnowblindNYR]

There's a famous story about I believe it was Nail Yakupov being annoyed that he had to interview with a team picking like 5th. That's shown as evidence of his bad attitude.

But then there's this story from Deion Sanders:

If you're good your attitude doesn't matter same as if you're bad. If you're good it's seen as confidence if you're bad it's seen as arrogance. Maybe this matters for people in the middle?

Click to read more...

 

[North Cole]

There's a famous story about I believe it was Nail Yakupov being annoyed that he had to interview with a team picking like 5th. That's shown as evidence of his bad attitude.

But then there's this story from Deion Sanders:

If you're good your attitude doesn't matter same as if you're bad. If you're good it's seen as confidence if you're bad it's seen as arrogance. Maybe this matters for people in the middle?

I still see the Deon quote as arrogance, even though he's a GOAT.

What are we defining attitude as though, because IMO a good attitude does matter. I also don't think he's portraying a bad attitude here, just a certain sense of his own value and doesn't want to waste his time. It's an arrogant attitude but it's not bad perse. Does the attitude in the quote stop him from being a good team mate, or working hard at his craft?

Difference with Yakupov was that he had this attitude but didn't do near enough to get to that level. Where the arrogant attitude becomes bad is when it becomes entitled, because then you set yourself back. By all accounts Prime worked his ass off, just like Rice, Jordan, and others. Personally, I don't have an issue with his quote, as long as he works hard and is a good team mate, that's all that matters and still shows he has a good attitude. He just also values his time and knew he would be taken way earlier.

Moss and Owens much worse attitudes than Prime and those did impact their abilities to stay in locker rooms. Yakupov was just an entitled bum.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Cole Caufield's agent told Montreal it was pointless to interview him

I believe Yakupov did basically the same thing to Toronto when Burke was there and interviewed him

 

[Mr Kot]

No one remembers who was no2.

 

[The Macho King]

This thread should be titled "hockey players are f***ing boring."

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Cole Caufield's agent told Montreal it was pointless to interview him

I believe Yakupov did basically the same thing to Toronto when Burke was there and interviewed him

Yep, that's what I'm referring to (Yakupov).

 

[emptyNedder]

The problem is really interviewers thinking they can determine future success based on attitude. Actually interviewing in general is counterproductive. Search "interviewer illusion."

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Cole Caufield's agent told Montreal it was pointless to interview him

I believe Yakupov did basically the same thing to Toronto when Burke was there and interviewed him

Source on that Caufield claim? I just find that weird- his draft position was very up in the air if I recall correctly, not sure why he’d say that.

Anyways, as to OP’s question- I think it’s a fundamental difference in the two sports/positions. Cornerbacks can be cocky- even when they need to communicate they can be pretty blunt about it, it’s just kinda the nature of things. You see it with WRs too, they need to be on the same page as a few guys and that’s pretty much it, and when communication happens it can be blunt. Yakupov’s arrogance was indicative of someone who wasn’t really a thinker, and maybe natural talent is needed more for a CB than for someone who needs 4 teammates at a time to really succeed. Lindros also showed some ego, but in his case I think his ability was enough to override his arrogance. Painting with a broad brush, but I’d say hockey requires the humility to work with teammates to get the most outta everyone. Deion just needs the confidence to shut down one guy, generally speaking.

 

[Brodeur]

I believe Yakupov did basically the same thing to Toronto when Burke was there and interviewed him

Burke said the beginning of his pre-draft interview with Thomas Vanek also started out poorly. Vancouver was picking 23rd and Vanek was expected to go in the top 10, so Vanek seemed a bit disinterested. Burke said he stopped the interview and scolded Vanek with something along the lines of "I've been known to trade up for a player I like and so far I don't like you." Burke said the rest of the interview went fine after that.

I think Nicklas Backstrom declined an invitation to visit Columbus prior to the 2006 Draft since he figured they wouldn't be in a position to take him. On the flip side, Jordan Staal agreed to take a visit which endeared him further with the Jackets brass especially considering he could have declined so he could watch older brother Eric compete for the Stanley Cup.

Like most things, it depends on the context. I can understand a teenager maybe not having the patience if he has to do 20+ interviews in a short period of time at the combine. Gare Joyce's book Future Greats and Heartbreaks had some fun tidbits. Sometimes it's easy to forget how young these guys are and interviewing might not be a strength for many. Especially if some guys aren't confident with their English. I think there was a blip in the book about the Jackets Czech scout having to translate for a mid-round Czech prospect and it was a bit of an awkward interview.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Are they not allowed to trade up in the NFL draft?

 

[HTFN]

Weird inter sport comparison, Deion Sanders never had to pass the ball to anybody (as a football player, anyway) Even if for the sake of argument the guy was 100% attitude every position he played allowed him to be as self invested as he wanted to be. Even in baseball it’s not like you can do anything but “pass” when the time comes to make defensive plays.

I guess what I mean is that Deion never had to balance being a distributor or making small plays that deny personal glory with any of this supposed attitude so as a sport I don’t think it works.

that said, works fine in soccer mostly and there’s crazy attitude there so… being “that guy” is a live by the sword die by the sword thing and you do it for as long as people will tolerate you. Become bad at the game and you’d better be a good guy to have around or the fall is harder

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

This thread should be titled "hockey players are f***ing boring."

They're boring because they don't act like assholes in pre-draft interviews?

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

I think the Avalanche do get a benefit but its probably not that significant. Its not like they’re as high as Machu Pichu or something like that.

 

[Menzinger]

The Kessel interviews should prove how useless they can be when evaluating talent

 

[LaVal]

Of course it matters. Is it more important than raw skill? No, if McDavid had a terrible attitude he still would have gone 1st overall. But a team may prefer a slightly lesser skillset and a great attitude over someone who is slightly better but a knob.

 

[JackSlater]

Attitude matters, interviews don't reveal close to everything about someone's attitude, and Sanders was the man. Each of these things is true at the same time.

 

[Herby]

I think a lot of it is fan perception, both good and bad.

As a Kings fan I look at two trades the Kings made. Marian Gaborik supposedly had attitude problems, didn't want to compete, didn't show up in big games. Gaborik ended up leading the Kings in goal-scoring that spring, there is probably no way they would have won the cup without him. And no one had a bad thing to say about him, even as his career fell off shortly after.

Ryan Smyth came in billed as a great leader "Captain Canada" blah blah. By the end of his second season he had clearly quit on the team because they weren't going to give him a contract extension, and then lied to everyone about demanding a trade to Edmonton. Then tried to deny it was for $$ reasons using his children's education as the reason he wanted to go back to Edmonton. Ofcourse that next spring when Smyth and the Oilers were having issues coming to a contract he was suddenly open to being traded to a team that would pay him (so much for those Edmonton schools).

 

[nbwingsfan]

No problem being cocky if it doesn’t rub people the wrong way. When that cockiness leads you to being lazy in training or critical (in non productive ways) around teammates then you become an issue.

So many players believe they’re the best. The ones who keeps working to stay the best end up greats. The ones who think they’ll always stay the best no matter what flame out

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

I think a lot of it is fan perception, both good and bad.

As a Kings fan I look at two trades the Kings made. Marian Gaborik supposedly had attitude problems, didn't want to compete, didn't show up in big games. Gaborik ended up leading the Kings in goal-scoring that spring, there is probably no way they would have won the cup without him. And no one had a bad thing to say about him, even as his career fell off shortly after.

Ryan Smyth came in billed as a great leader "Captain Canada" blah blah. By the end of his second season he had clearly quit on the team because they weren't going to give him a contract extension, and then lied to everyone about demanding a trade to Edmonton. Then tried to deny it was for $$ reasons using his children's education as the reason he wanted to go back to Edmonton. Ofcourse that next spring when Smyth and the Oilers were having issues coming to a contract he was suddenly open to being traded to a team that would pay him (so much for those Edmonton schools).

Good point, perception from old dinosaur hockey guys is a factor sometimes. Drury had this halo about him because he won a cup and the LLWS- I’m not saying he was a bad leader, but the difference in perception of him and Briere amongst management was striking. Briere stepped up more, but seemed to have a rep from earlier in his career. Add being a smaller French canadien guy and it’d just seem to me the standards were different between those two guys. Meanwhile you find out liking rap music was a problem with an NHL coach only a little while ago, and you gotta wonder if all the reps are really deserved. Yakupov would still seem stupid either way, but there are other guys who maybe just mislabeled a bit.

 

[Akrapovince]

How far are we going to go with attitude though? Personality and attitude are completely different. That’s just Deion’s swagger, has nothing to do with his work ethic, coachability, or team chemistry.

Look at Antonio Brown, and ask yourself does attitude matter.

At the hockey level with all the micro decisions it matters even more.

How’s your attitude when a linemate tells you something? How’s your attitude when the coach ask you to do something? How’s your attitude when deciding whether to party or hit the gym? All of these things add up immensely, your attitude in this league could get you traded. So yes, it does matter.

Connor McDavid would not be as good as he is without his attitude. Without his training regiment, his ability to listen, his ability to work with coaching staff, general managers and all things encompassing management.

 

[TheAngryHank]

Not often you get complete freaks such as Bo and neon Dion, both unreal freaks of nature and both totally different personalities.. very very few come along but if your that gifted you can act any way you want because it's backed up naturally.
Yaks hype went to his head and couldn't deliver .

 

[TheAngryHank]

How far are we going to go with attitude though? Personality and attitude are completely different. That’s just Deion’s swagger, has nothing to do with his work ethic, coachability, or team chemistry.

Look at Antonio Brown, and ask yourself does attitude matter.

At the hockey level with all the micro decisions it matters even more.

How’s your attitude when a linemate tells you something? How’s your attitude when the coach ask you to do something? How’s your attitude when deciding whether to party or hit the gym? All of these things add up immensely, your attitude in this league could get you traded. So yes, it does matter.

Connor McDavid would not be as good as he is without his attitude. Without his training regiment, his ability to listen, his ability to work with coaching staff, general managers and all things encompassing management.

Dion swag knew no bounds.. had to suck playing against him because his talent cashed every check his mouth wrote.
When he was in the NFL he went to a combine and guys were running the 40.These guys strip to nothing to cut a time..Dion strolls in ,in a track suit ,jewelry running shoes and waxed everyone..
He was such a dick but I imagine I wouldn't be much better in his shoes.

 

[93LEAFS]

Crosby interviewed with everyone who asked him in 2005, and was gracious about it. What some of these guys are too immature to realize that everything isn't about you. For example, multiple teams interviewed Matthews in 2016 despite him essentially being a lock of going 10A or McDavid in 2015. You know why? One, it's good to get insight in case maybe the player doesn't pan out and you can maybe trade or acquire him. Two, the interviews are sometimes not to gain info about you, but to gain info on teammates you've played with. Could the teams in the lotto interviewing Matthews potentially asking about his former linemate and close friend Matthew Tkachuk? What he thinks about Charlie McAvoy or what he thought of Debrincat as a linemate at the 2016 WJC? Absolutely. Similarly, McDavid would likely get some questions by teams about guys like D. Strome and Travis Dermott? Or, in Yakupov's case, do you think the Leafs who were picking #5 in 2012, who had a very desperate need for a center, may have been curious about Yakupov's close friend, housemate, and training partner Alex Galchenyuk? Probably.

As for Deion? Great player and lived up to his ego, but Darrell Green was the better corner since he could actually tackle.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Attitude certainly matters at some level. You want your players to be confident and that comes with ego. I think where people get confused is some are more expressive about this ego than others.

 

[93LEAFS]

Burke said the beginning of his pre-draft interview with Thomas Vanek also started out poorly. Vancouver was picking 23rd and Vanek was expected to go in the top 10, so Vanek seemed a bit disinterested. Burke said he stopped the interview and scolded Vanek with something along the lines of "I've been known to trade up for a player I like and so far I don't like you." Burke said the rest of the interview went fine after that.

I think Nicklas Backstrom declined an invitation to visit Columbus prior to the 2006 Draft since he figured they wouldn't be in a position to take him. On the flip side, Jordan Staal agreed to take a visit which endeared him further with the Jackets brass especially considering he could have declined so he could watch older brother Eric compete for the Stanley Cup.

Like most things, it depends on the context. I can understand a teenager maybe not having the patience if he has to do 20+ interviews in a short period of time at the combine. Gare Joyce's book Future Greats and Heartbreaks had some fun tidbits. Sometimes it's easy to forget how young these guys are and interviewing might not be a strength for many. Especially if some guys aren't confident with their English. I think there was a blip in the book about the Jackets Czech scout having to translate for a mid-round Czech prospect and it was a bit of an awkward interview.

That's a great book for any one interested in the prospect cycle. He is very complimentary of Crosby (which draft it didn't cover) who essentially interviewed with anyone that asked when him going #1 was the biggest lock since Lindros in 1991 (and since, McDavid had no competition like Eichel or Malkin).

With Backstrom who knows the full story. He may have been guaranteed he wouldn't slip past 4, and unlike Staal, he may have gone back to Sweden. A trip from Toronto to Columbus is a 1 hour flight. For Backstrom if he's back in Sweden that's a cross-Atlantic flight with at least 1 connection.