The bolded part is kind of my point, the guys on the Shero list you have there (save kunitz) are all bottom 6 fodder or severely declining former top 6ers that are no longer on the team anyway. Shero has yet to build a quality core of his own, with a big ol' Shero stamp on it. This collective pile of hot trash is all Ray. By no means am I a Craig Patrick ball-washer, his time had come, but the truth is Ray Shero has yet to build anything of value around the embarassment of riches left at his feet. On top of that, he allows his "special needs" head coach get away with murder on a nightly basis.
I was contesting the idea that the team in 2009 was "Craig Patrick's Team". I showed that definitely wasn't the case (3 out of the 4 top 6 wingers in the '09 playoffs had been acquired by Shero, and 5 out of the top 9 forwards had been). None of what you say above refutes that point.
There's plenty to criticize about what Shero has done since the Cup win in '09. But trying to undermine what he did leading up to '09 makes it look like you're trying to ignore anything Shero has done right (particularly when you try to dismiss the trade for Neal by saying Shero used Craig Patrick's assets to acquire him). When you are so obviously reaching to try to make Shero look bad, it has the effect of undermining
your argument instead.
Just a few points:
1. Carl Sneep says 'hi'.
Chosen when Craig Patrick's head scout, Greg Malone, was still in charge, I'll note.
2. I notice that you omitted later round picks from Craig Patrick's last two drafts. I am sure it has nothing to do with Letang (3rd, 2005), Vitale (7th, 2005), Alex Gologoski (2nd, 2004), and Tyler Kennedy (4th, 2004). Why, in just those four picks, Craig Patrick beats the non-first round picks Ray Shero has to show on his roster from the last 8 drafts.
Actually, those drafts were fantastic. I was trying to figure out how to give credit for them, but the post was getting too long. That said, the previous several drafts were horrible, including one in which one practically had to try to do so poorly in it (2003).
In any case, Shero's drafting is a separate issue from whether the 2009 Cup was won by "Craig Patrick's Team", which is the point I was refuting. I'm just tired of the idea that has been starting to float around that Craig Patrick was this amazing GM who was wrongly fired by the Pens, and Shero merely got lucky to win in 2009. Patrick was washed up at the time he was fired. It definitely wasn't "his team" that won the Cup, any more than it wasn't "Patrick's Team" that won in '91 or '92 (after all, Craig Patrick inherited Mario Lemieux, Zarley Zalapski, Mark Recchi, Craig Simpson, Robbie Brown, etc... and if you question my including Zalapski and Simpson, well, Patrick merely used assets acquired by previous GMs in his trades, so by the same logic as excluding the Kunitz trade was used, those trades don't count either!)
3. Robert Bortuzzo, and Olli Maatta? Care to venture a guess as to what they've got in common. They are the only two Ray Shero picks from the 8 Ray Shero drafts to suit up tonight.
So picks only count if they never get traded? Huh.
4. Looking at that 'who's who' above, two quick things pop to mind: One, the Patrick assets were and are the core. The Shero assets were expendable. They still are, despite what Ray Shero thinks. Two, Kunitz was acquired with a Patrick asset. Frankly, the only non-free agents on this team who can be tied into those 8 Ray Shero drafts are Sutter, Maatta, Bennett (when healthy), Despres (when everyone is hurt), Bortuzzo (when everyone but Despres is hurt). You can add Dupuis if you like, although he was swapped with Armstrong for all intents and purposes. So, add it all up, look at the guys playing when everyone is healthy, and only Sutter and Maatta can be tied to 8 Ray Shero drafts.
So, wait, we can't count picks Shero made if he traded away the player made with the pick, but we also can't count trades Shero made if he traded away assets acquired by previous regimes.
That's an awfully convenient way to cut down on the number of things that "count" in Shero's favor.
There are grounds to have criticized a lot of Craig Patricks draft work. Comparing it to someone's even less competent work isn't one of them.
I didn't compare it to Shero's. I was refuting the contention that the 2008/2009 team was "Craig Patrick's Team." I dispute the notion that all Shero had to do was show up, and that win would have happened. If that had been the case, they could have just kept Patrick. Looking at how Patrick built a team in his last few years shows that's clearly not the case.
Yeah, this.
One last thought: Greg Malone with his tight scouting budget did so much better a job of identifying NHL players than Ray Shero and his circle jerk of friends with far less limited resources has done.
Greg Malone was also the one who decided to draft Sneep, and told Shero not to sign Moulson, but for some reason those last two are being placed solely at Shero's feet.
I don't think everything Shero has done is correct. I just don't understand why people are pining for Craig Patrick. Seriously,
Shane Endicott. Patrick thought that guy was a better choice on the roster than Talbot during the 05/06 season.
Personally, though, I do wish a bit more for the Shero from the 2007/2008 timeframe. He cut loose Ouellett, despite him having some success with Malkin, and went didn't let any sentimentality get in the way of dealing Armstrong and Christensen. It does seem like there's been a bit of a change in how much Shero has been willing to let go of roster players that have been around a while.
