Rumor: Do you want the Senators to sign Corey Perry?

[swiftwin]

I think there is more to it than that. Perry is a very experienced and accomplished veteran and given his style of play he could be a helpful mentor to players like Tkachuk and others. He also fits the team identity of being mean and nasty on the ice. He is a "local" guy and I think it was reported that his parents live in Ottawa and were watching his very young son during the playoffs. He could want to make it easier for his parents and his son to spend time together. Finally, he was drafted by Bryan Murray. Murray was a mentor and kind of like a 2nd father to Dorion. Dorion may want to add Perry to the team as kind of a way to pay tribute to Bryan Murray.

Exactly. Just like Spezza and Thornton "coming home" to Toronto. Except, for Perry, winning a cup is not as high of a priority, since, unlike Spezza and Thornton, he already won one.

 

[Xspyrit]

I'd rather a trade at this point than a signing. Our center depth is...bad.

Not really!

Alex Galchenyuk (3rd OA pick)
Tim Stuetzle (3rd OA pick)
Logan Brown (11th OA pick)
Josh Norris (19th OA pick)
Colin White (21st OA pick)
Artem Anisimov (54th OA pick)
Chris Tierney (55th OA pick)
Chlapik/Pinto/Greig/etc

lol seriously (I don't even consider Galchenyuk as a Center actually) I know what you mean but keep in mind that it could change very fast. Once Stuetzle and Norris grab the first 2 C spots, your opinion will start to change. It's just a matter of time. Normally we would be in the thick of it but you know, covid

 

[DrSense]

Not really!

Alex Galchenyuk (3rd OA pick)
Tim Stuetzle (3rd OA pick)
Logan Brown (11th OA pick)
Josh Norris (19th OA pick)
Colin White (21st OA pick)
Artem Anisimov (54th OA pick)
Chris Tierney (55th OA pick)
Chlapik/Pinto/Greig/etc

lol seriously (I don't even consider Galchenyuk as a Center actually) I know what you mean but keep in mind that it could change very fast. Once Stuetzle and Norris grab the first 2 C spots, your opinion will start to change. It's just a matter of time. Normally we would be in the thick of it but you know, covid

While we have a lot of irons in the fire at the pivot position, the bottom line is that we really don't have one sure-fire scoring line center at this point. Certainly I'd bet at least one true top line center will emerge from that group, but if you ranked teams by the quality of their centers under the age of 25, we're pretty low on the list league wide, as we don't have one young established young center yet. The Stanley Cup winning blueprint has a pretty established formula. Look at past winners and you see teams with two elite centers (or play like centers) in Stamkos-Point, Toews-Kane, Crosby-Malkin and Backstrom-Kuznetsov. This is what we need to aspire to have.

Stuetzle is the highest likely candidate obviously, although it's 50/50 whether he is a center or winger. But given his style, I think it's fair to say he could have type of impact on a line that an elite center does, regardless of whether he actually plays center. Similar to how Mark Stone drove a line, and also how Kane, Benn and Kucherov do. Obviously our forward prospect changed with his selection. But Stuetzle is not a sure thing to be a top 15 forward in the league, and may just end up a really solid scoring line winger.

After that though, it's more quantity than truly elite quality.

Norris is certainly promising, but he's no further ahead in his development than Tierney was at the same age. But he is likely our next best hope, although I'm not sure he'll end up as elite center in the realm of the 1-2 punch noted above. But you can certainly envision him helping contribute to a better than average scoring line alongside the likes of Tkachuk and Batherson, for instance.

Brown has the same, if not higher upside, albeit with higher risk. But his elite playmaking skills could really drive a line with a scorer or two on his wings, so we can hope. Last year was great progress.

After that, there are no real candidates at center that could be elite, other than perhaps Pinto. But his skating and style really flash more towards a quality middle six center. Having Pinto, White, Grieg, Chlapik longer term though adds some depth and quality into the mix to help give us the depth required.

The other model, which we're likely tracking for more likely, but is harder to win with, is how the Blues won it in 2019. You roll out 4 really good two-way centers, as they did with a mix of Bozak, Shwartz, Schenn, Fabbri, Thomas and Steen (with some playing wing). It's been done before by the Devils (Nieuwendyk-Gomez-Madden-Holik) and also the Bruins (Bergeron-Krejci-Seguin-Kelly). The thing is, when these teams win, they usually have a few hall of famers on defence, and perhaps in goal too, so the centers are not really the defining strength of the team. Certainly the Sens tried this model at times, but always fell short, given we never were strong at center with our best teams.

But historially, the four balanced centers model only wins about 1 time in 10 years, where as the two true elite centers model has been dominating the Cup for decades going back to Gretzky-Messier, Lemieux-Francis, Yzerman-Federov, Sakic-Forsberg and even some of the one-off winners like Lecavalier-Richards and Staal-Weight.

Suffice to say, centers are important, and while we have a bunch of interesting prospects, we have a long way to go to have a Stanley Cup winning quality center group, recognizing at least half of our prospects won't be nearly as good as we hope.

 

[NyQuil]

The Stanley Cup winning blueprint has a pretty established formula. Look at past winners and you see teams with two elite centers (or play like centers) in Stamkos-Point, Toews-Kane, Crosby-Malkin and Backstrom-Kuznetsov. This is what we need to aspire to have.

Well, Stamkos played one shift in the post-season?

 

[TheDebater]

Norris is certainly promising, but he's no further ahead in his development than Tierney was at the same age. But he is likely our next best hope, although I'm not sure he'll end up as elite center in the realm of the 1-2 punch noted above. But you can certainly envision him helping contribute to a better than average scoring line alongside the likes of Tkachuk and Batherson, for instance.

.

How do you reckon that Tierney and Norris are/were the same level of prospect at the same age? Norris is bordering on blue chip prospect right now, and he was also drafted in the first round whereas Tierney was a late 2nd round pick.

 

[Xspyrit]

While we have a lot of irons in the fire at the pivot position, the bottom line is that we really don't have one sure-fire scoring line center at this point. Certainly I'd bet at least one true top line center will emerge from that group, but if you ranked teams by the quality of their centers under the age of 25, we're pretty low on the list league wide, as we don't have one young established young center yet. The Stanley Cup winning blueprint has a pretty established formula. Look at past winners and you see teams with two elite centers (or play like centers) in Stamkos-Point, Toews-Kane, Crosby-Malkin and Backstrom-Kuznetsov. This is what we need to aspire to have.

Stuetzle is the highest likely candidate obviously, although it's 50/50 whether he is a center or winger. But given his style, I think it's fair to say he could have type of impact on a line that an elite center does, regardless of whether he actually plays center. Similar to how Mark Stone drove a line, and also how Kane, Benn and Kucherov do. Obviously our forward prospect changed with his selection. But Stuetzle is not a sure thing to be a top 15 forward in the league, and may just end up a really solid scoring line winger.

After that though, it's more quantity than truly elite quality.

Norris is certainly promising, but he's no further ahead in his development than Tierney was at the same age. But he is likely our next best hope, although I'm not sure he'll end up as elite center in the realm of the 1-2 punch noted above. But you can certainly envision him helping contribute to a better than average scoring line alongside the likes of Tkachuk and Batherson, for instance.

Brown has the same, if not higher upside, albeit with higher risk. But his elite playmaking skills could really drive a line with a scorer or two on his wings, so we can hope. Last year was great progress.

After that, there are no real candidates at center that could be elite, other than perhaps Pinto. But his skating and style really flash more towards a quality middle six center. Having Pinto, White, Grieg, Chlapik longer term though adds some depth and quality into the mix to help give us the depth required.

The other model, which we're likely tracking for more likely, but is harder to win with, is how the Blues won it in 2019. You roll out 4 really good two-way centers, as they did with a mix of Bozak, Shwartz, Schenn, Fabbri, Thomas and Steen (with some playing wing). It's been done before by the Devils (Nieuwendyk-Gomez-Madden-Holik) and also the Bruins (Bergeron-Krejci-Seguin-Kelly). The thing is, when these teams win, they usually have a few hall of famers on defence, and perhaps in goal too, so the centers are not really the defining strength of the team. Certainly the Sens tried this model at times, but always fell short, given we never were strong at center with our best teams.

But historially, the four balanced centers model only wins about 1 time in 10 years, where as the two true elite centers model has been dominating the Cup for decades going back to Gretzky-Messier, Lemieux-Francis, Yzerman-Federov, Sakic-Forsberg and even some of the one-off winners like Lecavalier-Richards and Staal-Weight.

Suffice to say, centers are important, and while we have a bunch of interesting prospects, we have a long way to go to have a Stanley Cup winning quality center group, recognizing at least half of our prospects won't be nearly as good as we hope.

Rebuild truly started when Karlsson got traded, which was basically 2 years ago... So are we supposed to already have a truly established 1st line center at this point? Of course not

But with the list of potential centers I have named, chances are pretty good that we'll fill these C roles very well in the near future. Stuetzle is not your everyday's prospect, he was seen as the 2nd best prospect in the last draft (which was stacked) by many. His potential is huge. His floor is also quite good, as long as injuries don't derail his development.

Norris certainly has the potential to be an excellent 2nd line center. I'd also bet that Norris is going to be a significantly more valuable player than Tierney

But anyway, I don't care, I was not making that post to actually debate each prospect and wether or not they'll reach their potential. Sorry if it made you write a long answer but this was not the point.

The point was more to answer the post I quoted. Of course, we are not supposed to have a great center line NOW. We are still in the thick of the rebuild. Look at the age of these guys :

Tim Stuetzle (18 y/o)
Logan Brown (22 y/o)
Josh Norris (21 y/o)
Shane Pinto (19 y/o)
Ridly Greig (18 y/o)
Colin White (23 y/o)

Remember, these guys haven't played pro hockey in like 8 months so it's been hard to "prove themselves" lately

You only need 2 of them to succeed and another one to be a good 3rd line center (White? Pinto?)

 

[OttawaSenators11]

I think it read a report i meant to link here that said Perry had interest signing here? That's pretty cool if i seen correct.

 

[SensFactor]

I think it read a report i meant to link here that said Perry had interest signing here? That's pretty cool if i seen correct.

So wait you saw a recent report that Perry wants to sign here?

 

[Karl Prime]

I don't want him because I think the roster is full enough as it is and he'd only take up a spot a young guy would use.

 

[God Says No]

I don't want him because I think the roster is full enough as it is and he'd only take up a spot a young guy would use.

... and he's not good at hockey anymore.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

No room. Watson serves the same quality.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

As much as I have liked Cory Perry as a hockey player .. at this point based on the numbers and that I think the impact of Perry in a to be strange season for a brief period of time is not going to be worth losing a player on waivers or giving someone like Logan Brown, Chlapik or Balcers an opportunity

 

[DrSense]

Well, Stamkos played one shift in the post-season?

Sure, sub in Kucherov-Point, as I had already noted Kucherov drives a line like a center. You read that whole thing and only came away with that? :-0

 

[DrSense]

Rebuild truly started when Karlsson got traded, which was basically 2 years ago... So are we supposed to already have a truly established 1st line center at this point? Of course not

But with the list of potential centers I have named, chances are pretty good that we'll fill these C roles very well in the near future. Stuetzle is not your everyday's prospect, he was seen as the 2nd best prospect in the last draft (which was stacked) by many. His potential is huge. His floor is also quite good, as long as injuries don't derail his development.

Norris certainly has the potential to be an excellent 2nd line center. I'd also bet that Norris is going to be a significantly more valuable player.

But anyway, I don't care, I was not making that post to actually debate each prospect and wether or not they'll reach their potential. Sorry if it made you write a long answer but this was not the point.

The point was more to answer the post I quoted. Of course, we are not supposed to have a great center line NOW. We are still in the thick of the rebuild. Look at the age of these guys :

Tim Stuetzle (18 y/o)
Logan Brown (22 y/o)
Josh Norris (21 y/o)
Shane Pinto (19 y/o)
Ridly Greig (18 y/o)
Colin White (23 y/o)

Remember, these guys haven't played pro hockey in like 8 months so it's been hard to "prove themselves" lately

You only need 2 of them to succeed and another one to be a good 3rd line center (White? Pinto?)

I think my main gripe on "the rebuild", is we traded away Erik Karlsson, Mark Stone and Matt Duchene amongst others, and didn't get an elite center prospect back. We did get value back, but given the importance of centers, that was my main issue. Not sure how we get one now, other than continuing to be a lottery team and hoping to get lucky.

 

[DrSense]

How do you reckon that Tierney and Norris are/were the same level of prospect at the same age? Norris is bordering on blue chip prospect right now, and he was also drafted in the first round whereas Tierney was a late 2nd round pick.

It's pretty straight forward...3 years after being drafted, your draft position is pretty meaningless in terms of the quality of prospect you are. For instance, three years after being drafted, DeBricant (2nd rounder) is an established scoring line forward, while a ton of 1st rounders are busts or suspects at best from that same 2016 draft class.

As to Norris and Tierney specifically, Tierney was a great prospect 3 years after being drafted, just like Norris is now.

In his 3rd year after being drafted, Tierney was a PPG player in the AHL for half a season, and got called up to San Jose and had 21 points in 43 games in NHL. He was basically an NHL forward from that point on.
In his 3rd year after being drafted, Norris was a PPG player in the AHL and only played a few games with Ottawa (with little impact). So as yet to prove he is going to be a full time NHLer. He has yet to earn a spot.

So Tierney was AHEAD of Norris at the same age as a prospect, or at best, the same level - and that's being generous to Norris given Tierney was an established NHL at the age of 21.

The main point is you can't look at where guys like Tierney and Norris are at 21 and project them as bonafide scoring centers. There is a decent chance Norris ends up with the type of career Tierney is having right now, which is more of a nice middle 6 center.

 

[NyQuil]

Sure, sub in Kucherov-Point, as I had already noted Kucherov drives a line like a center. You read that whole thing and only came away with that? :-0

Well, what you're saying is that you need two line drivers, not necessarily two centres.

Alfredsson is another example of a guy who drove his line from the wing.

 

[NyQuil]

I think my main gripe on "the rebuild", is we traded away Erik Karlsson, Mark Stone and Matt Duchene amongst others, and didn't get an elite center prospect back. We did get value back, but given the importance of centers, that was my main issue. Not sure how we get one now, other than continuing to be a lottery team and hoping to get lucky.

Not a lot of elite centre prospects appear to get traded.

In Matt Duchene's case, it's hard to imagine them trading an elite centre prospect for another centre.

 

[TheDebater]

It's pretty straight forward...3 years after being drafted, your draft position is pretty meaningless in terms of the quality of prospect you are. For instance, three years after being drafted, DeBricant (2nd rounder) is an established scoring line forward, while a ton of 1st rounders are busts or suspects at best from that same 2016 draft class.

As to Norris and Tierney specifically, Tierney was a great prospect 3 years after being drafted, just like Norris is now.

In his 3rd year after being drafted, Tierney was a PPG player in the AHL for half a season, and got called up to San Jose and had 21 points in 43 games in NHL. He was basically an NHL forward from that point on.
In his 3rd year after being drafted, Norris was a PPG player in the AHL and only played a few games with Ottawa (with little impact). So as yet to prove he is going to be a full time NHLer. He has yet to earn a spot.

So Tierney was AHEAD of Norris at the same age as a prospect, or at best, the same level - and that's being generous to Norris given Tierney was an established NHL at the age of 21.

The main point is you can't look at where guys like Tierney and Norris are at 21 and project them as bonafide scoring centers. There is a decent chance Norris ends up with the type of career Tierney is having right now, which is more of a nice middle 6 center.

Appreciate the clarification but I completely disagree with your take on Norris. Stats alone can be deceptive, and the simple eye test of both players would tell you they play a completely different game and Norris is and will be much more dominant.

 

[Micklebot]

I think my main gripe on "the rebuild", is we traded away Erik Karlsson, Mark Stone and Matt Duchene amongst others, and didn't get an elite center prospect back. We did get value back, but given the importance of centers, that was my main issue. Not sure how we get one now, other than continuing to be a lottery team and hoping to get lucky.

I mean, Stützle is potentially that elite center. We weren't likely going to get a better shot at that elite center out of any other prospect we might have been able to trade Stone, Duchene or Karlsson for.

 

[JD1]

It's pretty straight forward...3 years after being drafted, your draft position is pretty meaningless in terms of the quality of prospect you are. For instance, three years after being drafted, DeBricant (2nd rounder) is an established scoring line forward, while a ton of 1st rounders are busts or suspects at best from that same 2016 draft class.

As to Norris and Tierney specifically, Tierney was a great prospect 3 years after being drafted, just like Norris is now.

In his 3rd year after being drafted, Tierney was a PPG player in the AHL for half a season, and got called up to San Jose and had 21 points in 43 games in NHL. He was basically an NHL forward from that point on.
In his 3rd year after being drafted, Norris was a PPG player in the AHL and only played a few games with Ottawa (with little impact). So as yet to prove he is going to be a full time NHLer. He has yet to earn a spot.

So Tierney was AHEAD of Norris at the same age as a prospect, or at best, the same level - and that's being generous to Norris given Tierney was an established NHL at the age of 21.

The main point is you can't look at where guys like Tierney and Norris are at 21 and project them as bonafide scoring centers. There is a decent chance Norris ends up with the type of career Tierney is having right now, which is more of a nice middle 6 center.

Ya that's pretty true of the Norris Tierney comparison

I think in Norris's case the team was clearly keeping him in Belleville to ripen and go on a playoff run. I think he could have been a contributing nhl player by February onwards and the season ended early March.

 

[aragorn]

As much as I have liked Cory Perry as a hockey player .. at this point based on the numbers and that I think the impact of Perry in a to be strange season for a brief period of time is not going to be worth losing a player on waivers or giving someone like Logan Brown, Chlapik or Balcers an opportunity

Balcers??? Really??? I see him as a cup of coffee guy who shouldn't be in their long term plans. I like Chlapik, but I'm not sure how long he will be here either. While Perry might only get one season here & probably not even the whole season he would be fun to watch with Tkachuk & Watson in the lineup. Balcers is soooooooooo ordinary, there really isn't anything remotely interesting about him.

P.S. - not a single kid has come to the house tonight for Halloween, not that I was expecting it, but I was still watching out for them just in case. You get any kids? I wonder if it was this Herman Munster outfit I'm wearing?

 

[DJB]

Every time I see this thread near the top of the Sens forum I get excited that maybe we've signed him.

 

[SensFactor]

Have we signed him yet?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Balcers??? Really??? I see him as a cup of coffee guy who shouldn't be in their long term plans. I like Chlapik, but I'm not sure how long he will be here either. While Perry might only get one season here & probably not even the whole season he would be fun to watch with Tkachuk & Watson in the lineup. Balcers is soooooooooo ordinary, there really isn't anything remotely interesting about him.

P.S. - not a single kid has come to the house tonight for Halloween, not that I was expecting it, but I was still watching out for them just in case. You get any kids? I wonder if it was this Herman Munster outfit I'm wearing?

I'm not a huge Balcers fan either but its getting time to see if he can stick in the NHL
No kids here

I think Perry would have been great as an aging vet on your team to mentor the new crop coming up but I question how much he can offer that way in a short stint.

 

[Billy Bridges]

No brainer signing him if the contract is cheap enough. A veteran leader who is a POS to play against is huge, particularly if the NHL goes with a Canadian division and they end up playing the same teams more frequently. The only downside would be having to read/listen to Leaf and Hab fans cry about Perry getting under the thin skins of their players.