Do You View This Team as a Legitimate Cup Contender?

Do you consider the Blues Cup contenders for the upcoming season?


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    155

Ted Hoffman

The other Rick Zombo
Dec 15, 2002
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I am confident Krug can replace Petro output (although Petro is stronger defensively). We need Thomas to step up along with increased contributions from at least 1 of Kyrou/Blais/Sanford if Tank isn't back and at his normal level. It is definitely doable.
I don't think anyone is questioning whether Krug can replace the offensive side of Petro. The question is whether he can replace the defensive side. If he can't, then who does it? [No, I don't know that you can ask Parayko to do even more than he already is.] Given that he doesn't PK on top of Dunn not doing PK, Bortuzzo is a heavy PKer, Scandella basically replaces Bouwmeester and Gunnarsson eats up about 2 minutes a game on the PK (which I don't think is sustainable going forward), either Faulk has to step up and play more PK (which I think would make people nervous) or Dunn/Krug need to do it and have a positive effect. Or, we have to go find someone that can do that - which probably means sacrificing someone [Dunn] to get that. Or, you lob Mikkola in there and make him sink/swim, and if he sinks you have to scramble in-season to fix that.

I think it's pretty clear now that while they are nice complementary players, Blais and Sanford are not in a position to drive offense on any line. They are best served as depth scoring in the bottom 6 on a contender.
I don't need them to drive offense. If one of them can just capitalize on opportunities, that would be fine. To that extent, I think Sanford has a better shot at that. If you're playing Blais in the top-6, either he's taken a massive step forward or we've lost at least 2 key pieces and we're throwing him up there out of quasi-desperation.
 

Blueston

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I don't think anyone is questioning whether Krug can replace the offensive side of Petro. The question is whether he can replace the defensive side. If he can't, then who does it? [No, I don't know that you can ask Parayko to do even more than he already is.] Given that he doesn't PK on top of Dunn not doing PK, Bortuzzo is a heavy PKer, Scandella basically replaces Bouwmeester and Gunnarsson eats up about 2 minutes a game on the PK (which I don't think is sustainable going forward), either Faulk has to step up and play more PK (which I think would make people nervous) or Dunn/Krug need to do it and have a positive effect. Or, we have to go find someone that can do that - which probably means sacrificing someone [Dunn] to get that. Or, you lob Mikkola in there and make him sink/swim, and if he sinks you have to scramble in-season to fix that.


I don't need them to drive offense. If one of them can just capitalize on opportunities, that would be fine. To that extent, I think Sanford has a better shot at that. If you're playing Blais in the top-6, either he's taken a massive step forward or we've lost at least 2 key pieces and we're throwing him up there out of quasi-desperation.
Faulk was actually strong on pk last year.
 

Brian39

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Apr 24, 2014
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To answer the question, no I do not believe we are a contender. We could miss the playoffs if the goaltending is bottom 5-10 in the league, but I don't expect that to happen so I have us penciled in as a playoff team.

Colorado is the favorite in the West. The got absolutely crushed by the injury this year and still got to game 7 vs Dallas with their 3rd string goalie. They were a top 5 team in the regular season and got better in the offseason. Upgrading Zadorov with D Toews and Nieto with Saad is no small thing. Their blue line is the best in the West and they have 2 top end D prospects pushing to make the roster when injuries hit. MacKinnon is in the conversation to be the best player in the world. Rantanen, Landeskog, Kadri, Burakovsky, Saad, Donskoi, Kompher, and Nichuskin allow them to create a hell of a top 9. They should run away with the West and be overwhlming favorites.

Vegas is the class of the Pacific. They got to the Conference Final last year after pivoting to Lehner, who they extended. They were 3rd in the West in the regular season despite getting bottom 5-10 goaltending all year. Fleury was bad most of the season and Subban is possibly the worst goaltender in the NHL. Lehner was a Vezina nominee in 2018/19, posted a .920 last season and then posted a respectable .917 in the playoffs. There is every reason to believe that they will get much better goaltending in the regular season and then get the type of playoff goaltending that got them to the Conference Final this year. Replacing Nate Schmidt with Petro is a massive upgrade. They lost Stasnty as a cap casualty, but I don't think Stas was a difference maker at this point in his career. He was used as a 3rd line center through most of the playoffs, finishing 8th in both EV TOI and EV TOI per game among Vegas forwards. He was used on their 2nd PK and PP units, but the Stephenson passed him on the even strength depth chart last year. Losing him is a downgrade unless Glass takes a sizeable step forward, but the downgrade is much closer to us losing Bozak than it is for a team losing their 2nd line center. That downgrade is outweighed by the upgrade from Schmidt to Petro along with the improved goaltending situation from last year.

Miro Heiskanen determines whether Dallas is with that group or part of the next tier down. If he truly took the next step and is the guy who we saw in the bubble, then Dallas is the real deal and in the top tier of the West. If he is the very good (but not elite) guy he was in the regular season than they are a step below Colorado/Vegas but still very good. They got to the Cup Final last year and took a fantastic Lightning team to game 6 despite Seguin mostly disappearing with a torn labrum. Dobby played well through the playoffs, but we've all seen playoff Bishop. Bishop's health is far from a guarantee, but I feel comfortable saying that we can expect the Stars' goaltending to be as good or better next playoffs.

Those are the 3 teams I would consider true contenders from the West. Everyone else (Blues included) are a step below them. We are either at the top of this tier if the goaltending holds up or the bottom of this tier if it doesn't. With a likely condensed schedule, we will feel the impact of replacing Allen's .927 SV% with a rookie. I think giving Husso a chance is the correct organizational decision, but it will likely cost the team some points in the standings. We played at a 105 point pace in Jake Allen's starts last season and his GSAA was +11 over just 21 starts. It's unrealistic to expect Husso to play that well. Binny already had one of the higher workloads in the NHL, so we can't really mitigate this impact by starting the backup less. Going from Allen to Husso is going to cost the team a handful of standings points.

But I'm much more concerned with the blue line. Binner is a great first-shot goaltender who excels when lateral passing lanes are closed up and he can rely on rebounds to get cleared by his D. I'm not sure how well our blue line can do that anymore. Those are the 2 biggest holes in Krug's game in his own zone. He plays a similar 'pressure the puck carrier' style that Faulk likes to play. Our system would fall apart when Faulk would try to do that last year, so I don't think that it will work for Krug. He is going to have to adjust his style or we are going to have to change our system to allow the 2 of them to play their style. He was only given top pair even strength minutes in Boston in the year that they missed the playoffs and has been 4th or 5th on their team in even strength usage for the last 3 seasons. Boston built their blue line pretty similarly to ours for the last few years (big guys who are mobile and clog lanes) and consistently felt a need to shelter him from his own zone more than almost every other D man in the league. It's alarming that he was 10th in Bruins D in +/- last year. +/- is a garbage stat in a vacuum, but can be useful with context. Five Bruins D men played 50+ games last year. Four of them were +15 or better and Krug was a -4. The year before, Krug was the only 50+ game Bruins D man to finish below a +9. Krug was a -2. The year before, every other Bruins D to play 50+ games finished +10 or better. Krug was an even 0. Summing these 3 years, Krug was a -6 through 201 games played. Chara was +70 in 203 games played, McAvoy was +58 in 184 games played, Carlo was a +48 in 215 games played, Grzelcyk was a +45 in 195 games played and Kevan Miller was a +24 in 107 games played. His GF% at 5 on 5 is lower than every guy in that group and his offensive zone start rate at 5 on 5 is 70% in that stretch. I can't find any evidence that Krug can adequately play defense in a top 4 role. He also doesn't drive offense at 5 on 5 at a top end level. His 21 even strength points last year were 1 point shy of Parayko's 22 and put him at 42nd in the league. He is good offensively at even strength, but noticeably shy of Petro (7 points back of Petro last year and 16 points back over the last 3 years combined). Again, this is all getting extremely offensive usage. If he is given top 4 minutes at even strength, his numbers should come up but there isn't much reason to believe that he will exceed what Petro has done here. This idea that our offense will improve at the expense of defense is flawed at even strength. Nothing about Krug's history suggests that he will improve the even strength offense, so the improvement will have to come on the PP where he is genuinely elite. Unfortunately, since our PP was already 24%, there isn't much room for improvement. Boston has given up 10 more shorties than we have over the last 3 years with Krug running their PP, so any thought that he can improve the PP +/- by reducing shorties is probably wishful thinking.

I just don't see a top 4 of Parayko, Krug, Faulk and Scandella as being good enough to contend for home ice advantage or in a 7 game series. That group isn't going to be able to shut down good teams and it doesn't have a guy that drives even strength offense at an elite level. Our forwards are going to have to focus more heavily on defense to cover them or we are going to have to shift to a run and gun style. I don't think we have the talent to make run and gun work in the playoffs, because it rarely does.
 
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Louie the Blue

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I think they can be a dangerous team in the playoffs...a tough out, like Columbus or the NYI.
Losing Pietrangelo hurts...but he's not being replaced by a rookie. Adding Krug fills that giant chasm to some degree. Faulk's increased role should fill some of that loss too.
Tarasenko's loss didn't cripple the offense last year; I wouldn't expect it to do so this year either. This is a big year for Binnington, and with the team defense probably a bit worse than last year's, he needs a nice bounce-back season. If he shows up and performs at last year's level, the Blues will be looking for a goalie come '21-'22. If Sanford, Blais, Kyrou or Sundqvist can find another gear, the Blues will be fine. If the power-play can maintain last year's level (which is a big question with the personnel changes and loss of Savard), they should be able to score 3 or 4 goals most nights. If the PK, goaltending and team defense don't improve though, they'll be giving up 3-4 goals most nights too. I hope Big Bird (Larry Robinson) is brought back in some capacity to work with the defense...and I hope VanRyn finds a way to get the most out of his D-corps. At least very least, they'll be entertaining to watch.

Binnington was fine this past season.

He performed at a rate comparable to how he performed in the 2019 POs.

If he performs like he did in the bubble, then there are greater problems concerning both him and the team.

His performance from the beginning of January 2019-end of regular season is not sustainable and not something that I think we should normally expect out of him.

That being said, he can be better than 2019-2020.
 
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Stealth JD

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Binnington was fine this past season.

He performed at a rate comparable to how he performed in the 2019 POs.

If he performs like he did in the bubble, then there are greater problems concerning both him and the team.

His performance from the beginning of January 2019-end of regular season is not sustainable and not something that I think we should normally expect out of him.

That being said, he can be better than 2019-2020.

if he's simply "fine" behind a suddenly porous defense his numbers from last season will be worse...and that doesn't bode well for his chances of a big payday. He's going to need to improve his play to keep the team at last year's overall level. I'd think the expected goals-against are going to be higher, so he's going to need to make saves he's not expected to make.
 
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EastVillageBlues

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I don't need them to drive offense. If one of them can just capitalize on opportunities, that would be fine. To that extent, I think Sanford has a better shot at that. If you're playing Blais in the top-6, either he's taken a massive step forward or we've lost at least 2 key pieces and we're throwing him up there out of quasi-desperation.

I don't personally believe Sanford is consistent enough to be top-6 (whether he drives offense or not) of a real contender. I think we will definitely need another one, if we want to have a realistic chance this year, if Tarasenko is not 100% by the time he gets back. Even if it's just someone like Haula, that's better than what we have right now.
 
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Ted Hoffman

The other Rick Zombo
Dec 15, 2002
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Faulk was actually strong on pk last year.
For 2011-12 to 2018-19, Faulk has 937:01 of PK time and has been on for 103 PPGA. That's 9:06 per PPGA. Pietrangelo has 1726:20 of PK time over that same period and has been on for 182 PPGA. That's 9:29 per PPGA.

Last year, Faulk played 1:06 per game on the PK, 75:27 total and was on for 8 PPGA. That's 9:24 per goal. Pietrangelo had 1:50 per game, 128:41 total and was on for 15 PPGA. That's 8:35 per goal. So, Faulk was a little better than his career and Pietrangelo was a little worse. However, Faulk also played about 60% of the amount of time that Pietrangelo did. [For those interested: Parayko was 124:36 PKTOI, 18 PPGA for 6:55 of SHTOI/PPGA.]


I'll posit this differently: between 2011-12 and 2016-17, Pietrangelo was averaging over 3 minutes of PK time a game. Last year's 1:50/game was a career low, lower than the 1:59 of PK time he logged in his first full season here. Faulk has logged at least 2 minutes of PK time per game in a season just twice: 2012-13 and 2013-14. His average TOI/PPGA were 8:06 and 6:35, respectively.

If Faulk morphs into a PK guy, awesome. Nothing in his past suggests that, though - it suggests the more time you lob him out there, the worse the result. Can you have him out to soak up some time? Sure, but is he soaking up 2 minutes of it on top of the minute he already plays? Parayko keeps getting mentioned as a defensive stud, but he's been at about 2 minutes a game throughout his career at most; do you really want him taking up more time given the style of play he has?
 
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EastVillageBlues

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I just don't see a top 4 of Parayko, Krug, Faulk and Scandella as being good enough to contend for home ice advantage or in a 7 game series. That group isn't going to be able to shut down good teams and it doesn't have a guy that drives even strength offense at an elite level. Our forwards are going to have to focus more heavily on defense to cover them or we are going to have to shift to a run and gun style. I don't think we have the talent to make run and gun work in the playoffs, because it rarely does.


I agree. We certainly won't have an overwhelming advantage in terms of matchups in our own zone, as when we had JayBow and Piet. And the ES offense won't be as good either, although I think our PP will be elite and improve on what we already had (Krug is one of the premier PP players in the league of any position.

Ironically, the one player in the position to possibly help with driving ES offense from the backend, if he takes a step forward, the Blues seem to be about to get rid of. If they move Dunn for futures, then our D will be noticeably thinner than last couple of years, unless Perunovich really takes the bull by the horn to start the season.
 

Ted Hoffman

The other Rick Zombo
Dec 15, 2002
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I don't personally believe Sanford is consistent enough to be top-6 (whether he drives offense or not) of a real contender. I think we will definitely need another one, if we want to have a realistic chance this year, if Tarasenko is not 100% by the time he gets back. Even if it's just someone like Haula, that's better than what we have right now.
I agree, I wouldn't be totally comfortable with Sanford in a top-6 (read: 2nd line) spot. I'd rather him than Blais or others, though. Is Haula the answer? Depends, do you get a healthy Haula who thinks he's still in Vegas or do you get the Haula pre-Vegas who's not much if any of an improvement on Sanford?

I get wanting a replacement for Tarasenko, but I wonder at what cost that might be right now. If we're going to do it, actually improve - don't make a move that's lateral to what we already have. For all the talk of how a Kyrou is supposed to be an offensive gem, IMO lob him in and tell him to go prove it. Don't fill that spot and then say well, maybe next year and keep doing the carrot-on-a-stick thing. Give guys a reason to go compete and earn a spot, then tell them to keep fighting to prove it wasn't a fluke.
 

EastVillageBlues

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I agree, I wouldn't be totally comfortable with Sanford in a top-6 (read: 2nd line) spot. I'd rather him than Blais or others, though. Is Haula the answer? Depends, do you get a healthy Haula who thinks he's still in Vegas or do you get the Haula pre-Vegas who's not much if any of an improvement on Sanford?

I get wanting a replacement for Tarasenko, but I wonder at what cost that might be right now. If we're going to do it, actually improve - don't make a move that's lateral to what we already have. For all the talk of how a Kyrou is supposed to be an offensive gem, IMO lob him in and tell him to go prove it. Don't fill that spot and then say well, maybe next year and keep doing the carrot-on-a-stick thing. Give guys a reason to go compete and earn a spot, then tell them to keep fighting to prove it wasn't a fluke.

Right; I prefer Sanford over Blais as well, but realistically, they are both bottom six players; good ones, but nonetheless don't bring offense consistently enough to be on a scoring line on a true contender.

Haula could do pretty well if he's slotted in the right place, like when he played with Neal and Perron for a time; he's skilled enough to be a complementary player on a scoring line, just need someone else on his line that's more of opposition's focus. He would be good to throw on with Schwarz/Schenn, or ROR/Perron as the 3rd wheel, and Kyrou will take the other position in top 6 if he proves he's ready. I really don't see another way of us being a genuine threat to contend, without a top sniper like Tank; we need to 2 robust scoring lines, and some productive players from the third line (Bozak/Thomas) as well.
 

Blueston

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Right; I prefer Sanford over Blais as well, but realistically, they are both bottom six players; good ones, but nonetheless don't bring offense consistently enough to be on a scoring line on a true contender.

Haula could do pretty well if he's slotted in the right place, like when he played with Neal and Perron for a time; he's skilled enough to be a complementary player on a scoring line, just need someone else on his line that's more of opposition's focus. He would be good to throw on with Schwarz/Schenn, or ROR/Perron as the 3rd wheel, and Kyrou will take the other position in top 6 if he proves he's ready. I really don't see another way of us being a genuine threat to contend, without a top sniper like Tank; we need to 2 robust scoring lines, and some productive players from the third line (Bozak/Thomas) as well.
Haula has been in league 7 years and only once has he had higher ppg than Sanford had last year. Who continues to improve. We way overrate on here FA forwards and forward prospects in the system that we drafted and way underrate guys on team who we traded for. Everyone loves Hoffman and Haula and Kostin and Kyrou and sleeps on Sanford.
 
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Stlblue50

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The Blues are easily one of the best 5 on 5 teams in the league. It’s amazing we won with the PP we had in 2019 and the special teams was another huge letdown vs Vancouver.

Krug is a MAJOR upgrade over Petro on the PP. If the Blues could fit Hoffman in on a 1 year deal, then the PP becomes a series threat. Both players will bring down our 5 on 5 play but it’s strong enough to take a hit to vastly improve our PP.
 

simon IC

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To answer the question, no I do not believe we are a contender. We could miss the playoffs if the goaltending is bottom 5-10 in the league, but I don't expect that to happen so I have us penciled in as a playoff team.

Colorado is the favorite in the West. The got absolutely crushed by the injury this year and still got to game 7 vs Dallas with their 3rd string goalie. They were a top 5 team in the regular season and got better in the offseason. Upgrading Zadorov with D Toews and Nieto with Saad is no small thing. Their blue line is the best in the West and they have 2 top end D prospects pushing to make the roster when injuries hit. MacKinnon is in the conversation to be the best player in the world. Rantanen, Landeskog, Kadri, Burakovsky, Saad, Donskoi, Kompher, and Nichuskin allow them to create a hell of a top 9. They should run away with the West and be overwhlming favorites.

Vegas is the class of the Pacific. They got to the Conference Final last year after pivoting to Lehner, who they extended. They were 3rd in the West in the regular season despite getting bottom 5-10 goaltending all year. Fleury was bad most of the season and Subban is possibly the worst goaltender in the NHL. Lehner was a Vezina nominee in 2018/19, posted a .920 last season and then posted a respectable .917 in the playoffs. There is every reason to believe that they will get much better goaltending in the regular season and then get the type of playoff goaltending that got them to the Conference Final this year. Replacing Nate Schmidt with Petro is a massive upgrade. They lost Stasnty as a cap casualty, but I don't think Stas was a difference maker at this point in his career. He was used as a 3rd line center through most of the playoffs, finishing 8th in both EV TOI and EV TOI per game among Vegas forwards. He was used on their 2nd PK and PP units, but the Stephenson passed him on the even strength depth chart last year. Losing him is a downgrade unless Glass takes a sizeable step forward, but the downgrade is much closer to us losing Bozak than it is for a team losing their 2nd line center. That downgrade is outweighed by the upgrade from Schmidt to Petro along with the improved goaltending situation from last year.

Miro Heiskanen determines whether Dallas is with that group or part of the next tier down. If he truly took the next step and is the guy who we saw in the bubble, then Dallas is the real deal and in the top tier of the West. If he is the very good (but not elite) guy he was in the regular season than they are a step below Colorado/Vegas but still very good. They got to the Cup Final last year and took a fantastic Lightning team to game 6 despite Seguin mostly disappearing with a torn labrum. Dobby played well through the playoffs, but we've all seen playoff Bishop. Bishop's health is far from a guarantee, but I feel comfortable saying that we can expect the Stars' goaltending to be as good or better next playoffs.

Those are the 3 teams I would consider true contenders from the West. Everyone else (Blues included) are a step below them. We are either at the top of this tier if the goaltending holds up or the bottom of this tier if it doesn't. With a likely condensed schedule, we will feel the impact of replacing Allen's .927 SV% with a rookie. I think giving Husso a chance is the correct organizational decision, but it will likely cost the team some points in the standings. We played at a 105 point pace in Jake Allen's starts last season and his GSAA was +11 over just 21 starts. It's unrealistic to expect Husso to play that well. Binny already had one of the higher workloads in the NHL, so we can't really mitigate this impact by starting the backup less. Going from Allen to Husso is going to cost the team a handful of standings points.

But I'm much more concerned with the blue line. Binner is a great first-shot goaltender who excels when lateral passing lanes are closed up and he can rely on rebounds to get cleared by his D. I'm not sure how well our blue line can do that anymore. Those are the 2 biggest holes in Krug's game in his own zone. He plays a similar 'pressure the puck carrier' style that Faulk likes to play. Our system would fall apart when Faulk would try to do that last year, so I don't think that it will work for Krug. He is going to have to adjust his style or we are going to have to change our system to allow the 2 of them to play their style. He was only given top pair even strength minutes in Boston in the year that they missed the playoffs and has been 4th or 5th on their team in even strength usage for the last 3 seasons. Boston built their blue line pretty similarly to ours for the last few years (big guys who are mobile and clog lanes) and consistently felt a need to shelter him from his own zone more than almost every other D man in the league. It's alarming that he was 10th in Bruins D in +/- last year. +/- is a garbage stat in a vacuum, but can be useful with context. Five Bruins D men played 50+ games last year. Four of them were +15 or better and Krug was a -4. The year before, Krug was the only 50+ game Bruins D man to finish below a +9. Krug was a -2. The year before, every other Bruins D to play 50+ games finished +10 or better. Krug was an even 0. Summing these 3 years, Krug was a -6 through 201 games played. Chara was +70 in 203 games played, McAvoy was +58 in 184 games played, Carlo was a +48 in 215 games played, Grzelcyk was a +45 in 195 games played and Kevan Miller was a +24 in 107 games played. His GF% at 5 on 5 is lower than every guy in that group and his offensive zone start rate at 5 on 5 is 70% in that stretch. I can't find any evidence that Krug can adequately play defense in a top 4 role. He also doesn't drive offense at 5 on 5 at a top end level. His 21 even strength points last year were 1 point shy of Parayko's 22 and put him at 42nd in the league. He is good offensively at even strength, but noticeably shy of Petro (7 points back of Petro last year and 16 points back over the last 3 years combined). Again, this is all getting extremely offensive usage. If he is given top 4 minutes at even strength, his numbers should come up but there isn't much reason to believe that he will exceed what Petro has done here. This idea that our offense will improve at the expense of defense is flawed at even strength. Nothing about Krug's history suggests that he will improve the even strength offense, so the improvement will have to come on the PP where he is genuinely elite. Unfortunately, since our PP was already 24%, there isn't much room for improvement. Boston has given up 10 more shorties than we have over the last 3 years with Krug running their PP, so any thought that he can improve the PP +/- by reducing shorties is probably wishful thinking.

I just don't see a top 4 of Parayko, Krug, Faulk and Scandella as being good enough to contend for home ice advantage or in a 7 game series. That group isn't going to be able to shut down good teams and it doesn't have a guy that drives even strength offense at an elite level. Our forwards are going to have to focus more heavily on defense to cover them or we are going to have to shift to a run and gun style. I don't think we have the talent to make run and gun work in the playoffs, because it rarely does.
Once again Brian, you have outdone yourself! Absolutely spot on evaluation of Torey Krug, and his projected impact on the team. This is why I have been so negative about our more recent roster changes. I see a potential trainwreck because the playing styles of both Faulk and Krug will not mesh with our system, and I am not sure if Berube can successfully adapt to a run and gun system. I also agree that we don't have the horses to successfully play that style anyway. We shall see.
 
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simon IC

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Faulk was actually strong on pk last year.
I swear sometimes, you and I are watching the same player in alternate realities. Faulk was used on the PK last year. I wouldn't say he was strong there. I seem to remember a lot of goals against when he was on the PK. I get why Berube tried him there, though. His aggressive style of challenging the puck carrier could work on the PK, but it is risky.
For 2011-12 to 2018-19, Faulk has 937:01 of PK time and has been on for 103 PPGA. That's 9:06 per PPGA. Pietrangelo has 1726:20 of PK time over that same period and has been on for 182 PPGA. That's 9:29 per PPGA.

Last year, Faulk played 1:06 per game on the PK, 75:27 total and was on for 8 PPGA. That's 9:24 per goal. Pietrangelo had 1:50 per game, 128:41 total and was on for 15 PPGA. That's 8:35 per goal. So, Faulk was a little better than his career and Pietrangelo was a little worse. However, Faulk also played about 60% of the amount of time that Pietrangelo did. [For those interested: Parayko was 124:36 PKTOI, 18 PPGA for 6:55 of SHTOI/PPGA.]


I'll posit this differently: between 2011-12 and 2016-17, Pietrangelo was averaging over 3 minutes of PK time a game. Last year's 1:50/game was a career low, lower than the 1:59 of PK time he logged in his first full season here. Faulk has logged at least 2 minutes of PK time per game in a season just twice: 2012-13 and 2013-14. His average TOI/PPGA were 8:06 and 6:35, respectively.

If Faulk morphs into a PK guy, awesome. Nothing in his past suggests that, though - it suggests the more time you lob him out there, the worse the result. Can you have him out to soak up some time? Sure, but is he soaking up 2 minutes of it on top of the minute he already plays? Parayko keeps getting mentioned as a defensive stud, but he's been at about 2 minutes a game throughout his career at most; do you really want him taking up more time given the style of play he has?
Well, you did my work for me. Good post.
 
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Blueston

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I swear sometimes, you and I are watching the same player in alternate realities. Faulk was used on the PK last year. I wouldn't say he was strong there. I seem to remember a lot of goals against when he was on the PK. I get why Berube tried him there, though. His aggressive style of challenging the puck carrier could work on the PK, but it is risky. Well, you did my work for me. Good post.
I don't know who you were watching, but of all D who averaged 1 minute or more on PK Faulk had lowest GA/60. That is who I was watching.
 
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MissouriMook

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The Justin Faulk contract is our own version of Seabrook.

All of the arguments that he will ‘rebound’ are squashed by the fact your expecting him to return to his 2014-15 form, you know, from 5 years ago.

According to CapFriendly’s advanced stats from EvolvingHockey, he had a +0.16 xG/60 in the regular season and a +0.45 xG/60 in the playoffs last season 5-on-5. Not sure how you reconcile these two data points other than the obvious “he wasn’t great but also not nearly as bad as some are saying”. <shrug>
 

BlueDream

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Dom at The Athletic posted a graph of how much each team improved over the offseason and I generally trust the models he uses. He had us getting slightly worse, which isn’t surprising, but the interesting thing is he still had us improving more than Vegas did.
 
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EastVillageBlues

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Feb 18, 2019
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Haula has been in league 7 years and only once has he had higher ppg than Sanford had last year. Who continues to improve. We way overrate on here FA forwards and forward prospects in the system that we drafted and way underrate guys on team who we traded for. Everyone loves Hoffman and Haula and Kostin and Kyrou and sleeps on Sanford.

That was literally the only time period when he was given top-6 minutes, and he excelled. The other seasons, he was either buried in the lineup, or injured most of the season. I'm not saying that he would be a sure fire all-star, but I think that he certainly is a lot more of a sure thing in the top-6 than Sanford is (whose primary issue has always been offensive consistency).
 

Novacain

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Dom at The Athletic posted a graph of how much each team improved over the offseason and I generally trust the models he uses. He had us getting slightly worse, which isn’t surprising, but the interesting thing is he still had us improving more than Vegas did.

Every note on Dom’s system regarding Krug should include the caveat that even Pronman has said he thinks his system over values Krug due to his power play success coming from playing with such elite forwards. We generally don’t know how well he will do without top scorers in the NHL on his power play unit.
 

BlueDream

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Every note on Dom’s system regarding Krug should include the caveat that even Pronman has said he thinks his system over values Krug due to his power play success coming from playing with such elite forwards. We generally don’t know how well he will do without top scorers in the NHL on his power play unit.
Krug was in the league before Pastrnak and before Marchand really broke out.

He’s always scored at least 40 points, minimum.

Him being a product of other players is not something I’m remotely concerned about.
 
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Stupendous Yappi

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The Justin Faulk contract is our own version of Seabrook.

All of the arguments that he will ‘rebound’ are squashed by the fact your expecting him to return to his 2014-15 form, you know, from 5 years ago.

But I’m not just blindly hoping he’ll rebound. I can see very clearly that he was jerked around the line-up, changing sides and partners multiple times while integrating with a new team in the first place. There is a very logical reason to expect him to perform better if/when he plays his accustomed side and gets a consistent partner/role. You make it sound like people are just pulling for a random improvement with no basis for expecting it.
 

Ranksu

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But I’m not just blindly hoping he’ll rebound. I can see very clearly that he was jerked around the line-up, changing sides and partners multiple times while integrating with a new team in the first place. There is a very logical reason to expect him to perform better if/when he plays his accustomed side and gets a consistent partner/role. You make it sound like people are just pulling for a random improvement with no basis for expecting it.
Why Faulk get jerked around?
 

EastonBlues22

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Nov 25, 2003
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RIP Fugu ϶(°o°)ϵ
But I’m not just blindly hoping he’ll rebound. I can see very clearly that he was jerked around the line-up, changing sides and partners multiple times while integrating with a new team in the first place. There is a very logical reason to expect him to perform better if/when he plays his accustomed side and gets a consistent partner/role. You make it sound like people are just pulling for a random improvement with no basis for expecting it.
On the other hand, Faulk played 66% of his ES shifts (and 60% of all his shifts) with one of Pietrangelo, Bouwmeester, or Parayko last season...a group that as a whole is much better than the group of guys he'll be spending most of his time with this year.

So there's a very logical reason why he might be worse, too.

Not saying one trumps the other. Just saying there's two sides to this coin.
 
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Blueston

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On the other hand, Faulk played 66% of his ES shifts (and 60% of all his shifts) with one of Pietrangelo, Bouwmeester, or Parayko last season...a group that as a whole is much better than the group of guys he'll be spending most of his time with this year.

So there's a very logical reason why he might be worse, too.

Not saying one trumps the other. Just saying there's two sides to this coin.
He seems much better on right side of that coin than the left.
 

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