Do you think the NHL should address the LTIR/playoffs issue?

[pantherbot]

Curious how much fans actually care about this issue.

Some, especially in the media and from Vegas fans, claim not that many care. Others think a majority of fans think it's important.

Obviously an HF poll isn't going to be scientifically accurate or anything like that, but could give a sense on if the issue matters.

So, not discussing any solutions or debating whether any teams are exploiting a loophole. Just want to know is this an issue you think the league should address?

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[bobholly39]

Personally I don't really care that much

I love that Vegas is being creative though. Others should do the same

 

[BCNate]

Couldn't care less. Vegas is playing by the rules, other teams are welcome to as well.

 

[pantherbot]

Couldn't care less. Vegas is playing by the rules, other teams are welcome to as well.

Question wasn't about whether or not Vegas is playing by the rules. It's whether or not the rules as they are currently make sense or need to be changed.

 

[BCNate]

Question wasn't about whether or not Vegas is playing by the rules. It's whether or not the rules as they are currently make sense or need to be changed.

Fair. I don't think they need to be changed, as I think more teams will join Vegas in what they are doing. I'd far rather see teams load up and shoot their shot like Vegas, or Tampa have, it just elevates the level of play in the playoffs. Teams have such short windows to compete now, let's see more teams try to capitalize on them.

 

[klefbombs shoulder]

Have teams be cap compliant for playoff games. And since the affiliate team could no longer be playing allow teams to have a expanded backup roster that doesn't count against the cap, so that if a regular roster player is injured they can bring on a backup player who then has a cap hit.

 

[pantherbot]

Fair. I don't think they need to be changed, as I think more teams will join Vegas in what they are doing. I'd far rather see teams load up and shoot their shot like Vegas, or Tampa have, it just elevates the level of play in the playoffs. Teams have such short windows to compete now, let's see more teams try to capitalize on them.

Agree more teams will try this, but the ability to do so is basically random, depending on injury 'luck'. A team really only benefits if they are already in a strong playoff position and a player is injured with a recovery timeline inline with the playoffs, then they benefit. But if same player was injured at any other time, like early in the season or after the trade deadline, then no benefit.

I've got no problem with teams using the rule as is, but the benefit is kind of random and counterintuitive, i.e. teams randomly benefit from an injury which is usually a negative in sports.

 

[BCNate]

Agree more teams will try this, but the ability to do so is basically random, depending on injury 'luck'. A team really only benefits if they are already in a strong playoff position and a player is injured with a recovery timeline inline with the playoffs, then they benefit. But if same player was injured at any other time, like early in the season or after the trade deadline, then no benefit.

I've got no problem with teams using the rule as is, but the benefit is kind of random and counterintuitive, i.e. teams randomly benefit from an injury which is usually a negative in sports.

I get it's random, very true, but it is what it is. From an NHL POV, why would they change it? Take Vegas for example, they went out and got Hertl, which makes them stronger for the playoffs. SJ got pieces for a rebuild. In my eyes, the league wins in this case, as it helps to cycle teams through from their rebuilds to competitive windows quicker. They know that teams bleed money through rebuilds in most cases, so getting through that cycle quicker is a win for the league.
Also gets a better product on the ice for the playoffs.

 

[GAGLine]

Have teams be cap compliant for playoff games. And since the affiliate team could no longer be playing allow teams to have a expanded backup roster that doesn't count against the cap, so that if a regular roster player is injured they can bring on a backup player who then has a cap hit.

That would punish teams that save cap earlier in the year and then use that saved space later in the season.

Just put a cap on how much can be replaced via LTIR. For example, if it's 5%, then if the cap was 100 mil, teams would be able to go up to 105 mil with LITR, but no more, regardless of how many players they have on LTIR.

 

[pantherbot]

I get it's random, very true, but it is what it is. From an NHL POV, why would they change it? Take Vegas for example, they went out and got Hertl, which makes them stronger for the playoffs. SJ got pieces for a rebuild. In my eyes, the league wins in this case, as it helps to cycle teams through from their rebuilds to competitive windows quicker. They know that teams bleed money through rebuilds in most cases, so getting through that cycle quicker is a win for the league.
Also gets a better product on the ice for the playoffs.

Well because it creates competitive imbalance randomly, which is kind of an issue IMO if you care about fairness. I also get there are other competitive imbalances, but again this is totally random.

If you want more player movement, I think that's a separate issue.

 

[BCNate]

Well because it creates competitive imbalance randomly, which is kind of an issue IMO if you care about fairness. I also get there are other competitive imbalances, but again this is totally random.

If you want more player movement, I think that's a separate issue.

Yes, but if you remove this out of the CBA, are you not randomly creating a competitive imbalance by not allowing the team to replace that player(s) who are injured? That is what LTIR is designed for.

In all fairness though, I really am just not that invested in this topic. I don't see that it is an issue, nor do I see the league having any appetite to change it. I'm going to politely step out of this one and let others have their discussion.

 

[Team Cozens]

Yes, look at the Leafs with a $97,000,000 payroll. LOL

Toronto Maple Leafs		26	48/50	0/3	4 LTIR		$97,645,821	$0	$547,499 LTIR
Tampa Bay Lightning		24	46/50	2/3	3 LTIR		$93,776,877	$0	$32,083 LTIR
Vegas Golden Knights		23	49/50	0/3	3 LTIR		$92,227,602	$0	$1,689,183 LTIR
Colorado Avalanche		22	47/50	0/3	3 LTIR		$90,957,006	$0	$2,904,257 LTIR

 

[Golden_Jet]

Don’t really care tbh,
but cases like Matt Murray waiting 5 months to have surgery, so he could be healthy by end of season is suspect,

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

It has never bothered me. People are just crybabies.

 

[ijuka]

For perspective:

The NHLers play stanley cup playoffs completely for free. It's just slave labor. In contrast, the all stars game gives them a million in prize money.

The all star game is more valuable than the stanley cup in NHL's eyes.


But as far as I'm concerned, salary cap should apply during the playoffs as well.

 

[Menzinger]

Ultimately I'd rather have a league where teams can manipulate things to make big trades than have a system that overly restricts teams for doing just that. Hockey fans don't follow the league to cheer for cap compliancy......

 

[BB88]

Yes, look at the Leafs with a $97,000,000 payroll. LOL

Toronto Maple Leafs		26	48/50	0/3	4 LTIR		$97,645,821	$0	$547,499 LTIR
Tampa Bay Lightning		24	46/50	2/3	3 LTIR		$93,776,877	$0	$32,083 LTIR
Vegas Golden Knights		23	49/50	0/3	3 LTIR		$92,227,602	$0	$1,689,183 LTIR
Colorado Avalanche		22	47/50	0/3	3 LTIR		$90,957,006	$0	$2,904,257 LTIR

Muzzin/Klingberg about to join the team come playoff time?
Nope, everyone knew they were going to be out where as everyone knew Stone would be back amazingly by the start of playoffs.

& that’s where the problem is, not Vegas adding players but the LTIR protocoll is a damm joke and so ….ng easy to go around yet the bs excuses here are no it’s ”real”
”Healthy players can’t be kept on ltir” where even here we have Vegas fans admitting Stone isn’t on ltir because he’s too injured but because he’s too expensive for Vegas

If you are on ltir by game 82 you should miss 1 week of the playoffs like being on ir

 

[MikeyMike01]

LTIR should only provide cap relief for season ending injuries. In other words, you shouldn’t be allowed to return until the following season if you go on LTIR.

This seems the easiest solution to me.

 

[6ix]

I don’t think it should be removed, but perhaps revised.

What about something like a “luxury” tax or cap penalty the next season?


for every LTIR player that comes back for playoffs, the team receives a $2 mill cap hit penalty added next season. For every $5 million added to the teams cap hit for the playoffs, $1 mill cap hit penalty added next season.


Ex. Team brings two players off LTIR to play in the playoffs.

Their combined cap hit is $10 mill

So 2x players = $4 mill cap penalty

$10 mill in LTIR coming back = $2 mill cap penalty

So the next season that team would be operating

With a $6 mill cap penalty.

It would make it much more interesting for teams if they wanted to go “all in” knowing a cap penalty would be added next season.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

What issue?

 

[MuckOG]

The solution is quite simple: Keep the salary cap in the post season, with a "twist". Your roster can be over the salary cap, but for any particular game, the active players for that game have to be under the cap.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Realistically it's cheating... But every GM is cool when a team does it because they want that ability to cheat when it's their turn.

 

[Voight]

That would punish teams that save cap earlier in the year and then use that saved space later in the season.

Just put a cap on how much can be replaced via LTIR. For example, if it's 5%, then if the cap was 100 mil, teams would be able to go up to 105 mil with LITR, but no more, regardless of how many players they have on LTIR.

The problem with that tho, is it restricts teams from adding a good replacement most of the time.

I.e. Stone for example is a top 6 winger. Vegas can't really replace him with another top 6 player if they aren't getting full credit for his cap hit.

 

[HolyHagelin]

All games derive their “fun” value from rules that create a competitive playing field. If the rules tilt in one teams favor, or are rasily exploited for competitive advantage, the rules are bad.

 

[Bruins4Lifer]

The solution is quite simple: Keep the salary cap in the post season, with a "twist". Your roster can be over the salary cap, but for any particular game, the active players for that game have to be under the cap.

This is how I'd do it too. It's only the starting lineup of 20 players (18 skaters, 2 goalies), that need to be considered.