Do you think Dubas risks losing Keefe to keep Babcock a little longer?

[Daisy Jane]

Every coach has their warts yes but it seems that Babcock’s warts are a massive hinderance to THIS set of core players. You can’t tell me what Barry Trotz, Gerard Gallant, Bill Peters, John Tortorella and Jared Bednar get out of their lesser skilled teams, that Babcock shouldn’t be able to do the same with the incredible amount of talent we have on this club.

Babcock may just no longer be a fit here.

right i know that.
I just mean, people keep going "Oh I don't want Q" (for example) because he likes vets etc blah blah blah. yah - but i mean, there's no one "perfect". I guarantee you whoever we bring within a few weeks people will be kvetching how he's not doing what they think he should be doing yada yaday blala. and I don't think a "young" coach is an answer. (this is just preference for me) but that's also to say that doesn't mean an "older" coach is the answer. just whomever replaces Babcock eventually will have warts.

trust me, I wasn't defending Babs to stay just saying that saying "____ likes ____ so no,"isn't really the right course of action either.

 

[WillNy29]

Yep
Yep
Yep
Yep
Yep

Um this is blatant lying. Also the leafs outhit the Bruins, the Bruins werent some gritty force that ran over the leafs

 

[ToMaLe]

Babcock WAS the best proven man for the job

Keefe has history with Dubas. Keefe 100% buys in to how Dubas views the rosters.

They’ve won together at the OHL level, won together at the AHL level.

That’s worth going for then another older, out of touch coach.

Agree 100%

 

[stickty111]

Keefe has suddenly become very overrated around here...

Babcock is still overrated by fans. He isnt a good coach.

 

[Trapper]

If you are trying to sell me the Dubas way of doing things, then I need a coach who reflects that.

Unless you tell me Dubas and Babcock are on the same page. In which case I say ?????

 

[MyBudJT]

1: you do not play Matthews less than 20 minutes in an elimination game. I can play the sports science department game as well as you can. in the regular season. sure - but in must win scenarios, why aren't you shortening the bench? why aren't you doing everything in your power to ensure a goal. Patrick Marleau - and i really really like him - is not the person you toss over the boards with minutes to go. I'm sorry.

Wow, what a lengthy post! I'll try my best to get through this

Elimination Games:
Tavares: 21:19
Marner: 20:53
Matthews: 18:48
Kucherov 22:38
Stamkos 20:19
Point 18:05
Crosby 24:06
Malkin 19:17

Lets not pretend like Babcock didn't use our stars. Matthews' line also gave up the first two goals, which probably impacted his ice time.

I'm not playing a game, I was providing a possible explanation. Look... none of us here are behind the scenes... we don't know what kind of imput and sway our Sports Science Department have on our coaching staff... Thats all I'm saying...

Regarding Marleau: He was likely the 8th option after Tavares, Marner, Hyman, Matthews, Nylander, Kapanen and Johnsson.. Not going to complain about that... I have more trust in Marleau than Ennis/Gauthier/Brown....

2: We barely did, we weren't even really set up. When Joe Bowen, he who has apologised for a lot of crap that he has seen in this organization is amazed that Babcock did it twice and questions it. it wasn't just a "we gave it away." they weren't properly set up for a goalie pull. twice.

If it were up to me, I would have pulled freddy with 5 minutes left... but its not a big deal. The leafs had possession when they pulled Freddy... They gave up the puck too easy.... End of story....

3: Really? he adapted? When?
Our powerplay has been stagnant since November. What did he adjust? For three years it's been the worst powerplay in the NHL in the playoffs. Three. years.

Our penalty kill has has been awful pretty much the same period of time. Did he try at all to put Tavares or a different centre on the PK just to even win a draw? Doing it in game seven - is not adapting. He forced hyman to do a centres job all season and it didn't work., so why are we surprised it didn't work again (Oh by the way? we had the worst PK in the playoffs three straight years too).

The Leafs for 6 weeks haven't won a game back to back. so are we really surprised the Leafs couldn't win two in a row in the playoffs? People want to dismiss the regular season as being meaningless, but honestly - the struggles that we saw then are what we saw here magnified.

Now. this is Babcock's thread so I am not even going to start with the stupidity that is Nazem kadri who pretty much removed any chances of actual adjustments we probably could have done, but there were a lot he could have done that he didn't do. and I have handwaved/ignored a Lot of babcock's crap so it's not "oh no, we lost, blame someone." He's making the same mistakes over and over again and not making changes fast enough as in. If the Special Teams are the reason why we lost - and the special teams - has been struggling all year then WHY DIDN'T HE DO ANYTHING TO CHANGE IT? If Hiller and Smith were the problem (hello, defense woes ) why did he retain them. If anyone with eyes could see what the issues were, why Babcock, who is paid a hell of a lot of money can't go "wait this isn't working. let's try something else."

So. if you wanna believe this is a false narrative, okay. I am still seeing the same issues that were prevalent from three years ago. we can hand wave it that "oh they were rookies." but the issues were there and they haven't been corrected.

I'm not going to touch on this as much as what is warranted, as I'm busy right now... I'm not saying Babcock is perfect... but he is still one of the better coaches in the game...

5v5 really doesn't need many adaptations, since we were pretty strong in that regard for much of the season. In Game 7, I saw a PP where Marner and Matthews switched sides.... and it seemed to have worked.

Leafs haven't won a back to back in six weeks. We also haven't had a healthy and good 3rd pairing defensmen for about 7 or 8 weeks.... We got injuries at a shitty time in the season, and didn't have the depth needed to fill in.

Babcock stacked the PP1 this season... a desire of many people...

I still think Babcock's system works... make a few tweaks on the PP and PK, and we will be on pace for our 3rd 100+ point season.

and honestly.
the thing is. sure. the points and the records and all of that are really great - but the goal is to progress every year. and the team - when it counts- isn't progressing or improving where it matters most. and honestly - I rather not waste another year praying and hoping that the issues that the team has will magically disappear when we all know it won't.

I'm sorry, but this team and this playoff performance was night and day better than our last couple... we lost... its shitty, I get it... but Babcock isn't the reason why we lost the series...

 

[paulhiggins]

Babs thinks he is bigger than the team and it's more important for him to win personal battles with the players than the games themselves. I think it's the reason Matthews signed short term in case he had to play under Babs for his whole contract.

 

[WilliamNylander]

Do you keep Phaneuf to avoid playing Rielly as a #1?

Equally stupid questions

 

[stickty111]

Yep
Yep
Yep
Yep
Yep

Nope
Nope
Nope
Nope
Nope

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Keefe has suddenly become very overrated around here...

is this because people want him to replace the coach you like?

 

[MyBudJT]

is this because people want him to replace the coach you like?

Nope.

 

[IPS]

I'd love to see a new guy get a crack with this roster much like Jim Montgomery got with the Dallas Stars. Once the Stars acclimated to his new style he implemented they've been doing great things.

I really do believe Keefe will have a similar effect on Toronto.

 

[TheLeafsBro]

what will happen is this :
d.j. smith and hiller are gone. Keefe will be promoted to assistant coach and in charge of penalty kill and power play.
babcock will be given one more year.
shannahan did not look to pleased in that box at the end of the game last night.

I would be very happy if this happened. I doubt Dubas/Shanny would fire Babcock so this would be the next best thing.

 

[GoonieFace]

I have no attachment to Babcock, but I honestly think, as currently constructed, this team doesn't have what it takes to win in the playoffs.

 

[AppsSyl]

I really hope we don't let Keefe walk somewhere else to keep Babcock on. He showed in last nights Marlies game what a coach needs to do when they have a team on the ropes and can eliminate them.
-Played PP1 almost whole time
-double shifting best players
-great PK
The Amerks were no rag-tag team and finished ahead of the Marlies in the standings.

 

[mapleleafs34]

What are the chances we make Keefe the highest paid Assistant in the NHL next season in order to keep him around?

 

[Trapper]

Who builds the team?
Should the coach reflect that?

 

[markh100]

If people around here want to bring in a coach with NHL coaching experience, that means bringing in a coach that has been fired from his position for not being good at his job. Yes, not every AHL coach promoted to coach at the NHL level succeeds, but most coaches that shuffle around the NHL coaching carousal do not succeed either - in fact, they have already proved themselves to be failures.

Randy Carlyle, Ron Wilson and Paul Maurice were all NHL coaching veterans - were you happy with the results with them at the helm. Dubas and Keefe have proven success working at every level so far--why not give them a shot? The Leafs under-performed this season, and the primary reason for that is Mike Babcock - he is not on the same page as Dubas and refuses to optimally deploy the assets he has available. If you want to go back to truculence and pugnacity - go head, and re-hire Brian Burke as GM.

This is the most promising era I've seen in Leafs history, and I don't want to see them squander another season in the limited window they have available with a stubborn coach that is unable to make obvious mid-season or in-game adjustments. He had an 82 game season to observe the flaws with his approach, and ruined a great opportunity to win a cup this year with his approach.

 

[34]

Oilers fan here hoping you don't fire Babcock.

We're legitimately worried we would replace Hitchcock for Babcock, in a cock swap.

We don't want to extend our cock either.

Lol, classic post right there!

 

[killer1980]

If people around here want to bring in a coach with NHL coaching experience, that means bringing in a coach that has been fired from his position for not being good at his job. Yes, not every AHL coach promoted to coach at the NHL level succeeds, but most coaches that shuffle around the NHL coaching carousal do not succeed either - in fact, they have already proved themselves to be failures.

Randy Carlyle, Ron Wilson and Paul Maurice were all NHL coaching veterans - were you happy with the results with them at the helm. Dubas and Keefe have proven success working at every level so far--why not give them a shot? The Leafs under-performed this season, and the primary reason for that is Mike Babcock - he is not on the same page as Dubas and refuses to optimally deploy the assets he has available. If you want to go back to truculence and pugnacity - go head, and re-hire Brian Burke as GM.

This is the most promising era I've seen in Leafs history, and I don't want to see them squander another season in the limited window they have available with a stubborn coach that is unable to make obvious mid-season or in-game adjustments. He had an 82 game season to observe the flaws with his approach, and ruined a great opportunity to win a cup this year with his approach.

Dubas has had very little input on the current Leaf team other than paying a ton of money for their unproven youngsters and Jake Muzzin who was -6 in the playoffs. They regressed from the year before and nothing was added to take them to the next level. I am thoroughly unimpressed.