Do you consider Sebastian Aho Top10 C now?

[jonlin]

Aho is really tearing it atm. In his 5 last games, he has 5g + 7a 12p. On the season he is:

26gp 15g 17a 32p +12 FO% 54.14

Plays all situations PK, PP and has a good 200ft game.

I have him in the Top10 and knocking Top5 as of now:

McDavid
Draisaitl
MacKinnon
Matthews
Barkov
Aho
Stamkos
Bergeron
Crosby
Point

Click to read more...

 

[Rompane]

Yes

 

[jonlin]

Before the season he was ranked Top15-20 by almost all rankings.

 

[Get North]

Hard to argue he's not top 10 as young guys like Hughes and Pettersson haven't taken the step. I didn't count Eichel. Not ready for Zegras yet.

McDavid
MacKinnon
Matthews
Draisaitl
Point
Crosby
Barkov
Aho
Stamkos
Scheifiele
Barzal

 

[bobholly39]

Surprised I'm the only no vote so far. He's close, but I think on the outside looking in.

Names definitely ahead of him:

McDavid/Crosby/Matthews/Mack/Drai/Barkov

Names probably ahead of him:

Malkin/Eichel/Bergeron/Point

Names possibly ahead of him:

Stamkos, Schiefele. Stamkos past 3 years has a 1.09 ppg to Aho's 1.03. Scheifele is probably edge Aho for me, but I think others might disagree. Even disregarding those 2 names, there are 10 names listed above already, making Aho 11th.

 

[bobholly39]

Before the season he was ranked Top15-20 by almost all rankings.

Yeah I think that's more accurate. Probably ~10-15 more than 15-20, and young and rising and a great season could have him pierce the top 10 for sure as he's close, but I wouldn't say he's there just yet.

 

[jonlin]

Yeah I think that's more accurate. Probably ~10-15 more than 15-20, and young and rising and a great season could have him pierce the top 10 for sure as he's close, but I wouldn't say he's there just yet.

Well at this point, Crosby, Point, Scheifele and Bergeron look worse than Aho. Aho beat them in points and all but Bergeron in 200ft play. Eichel and Malkin are havent been playing. Aho is trending upwards and the others regressing. I think 2018-2019 still overrate Point. Productionwise they are on par for career, but Aho has been significally better last two seaons

 

[bobholly39]

Well at this point, Crosby, Point, Scheifele and Bergeron look worse than Aho. Aho beat them in points and all but Bergeron in 200ft play. Eichel and Malkin are havent been playing. Aho is trending upwards and the others regressing. I think 2018-2019 still overrate Point. Productionwise they are on par for career, but Aho has been significally better last two seaons

Crosby looked really bad coming back from surgery/covid, but has 13 points in his last 8 games. He was a Lindsay finalist, and 4th in hart last year. If you want to ask "who had the better season if it ended today, Crosby or Aho" - sure, it's Aho. But if you're asking if Aho has done enough to be ranked ahead of Crosby as the better player as of today, no chance.

Point - I agree his 2018-2019 season gets overrated, since he hasn't managed to repeat that yet. But you can't ignore his past 2 playoff runs. Insane performances. I think overall, that puts him easily ahead of Aho as well.

Bergeron - It's always a bit tricky with him to consider how much to weight defense vs offense. Since 2018-2019 season (so 3 seasons and this first half) offense is very close between him and Aho. 1.03 ppg for Aho to 1.00 for Bergeron. I want to say that I still rank Bergeron as the better overall player today, but I agree that it's close.

I have no problem listing Aho ahead of Scheifele - but it's probably similar tier, and I'm sure others may disagree.

I know Eichel and Malkin haven't been playing - but both are due back this season, and I consider both still better then Aho. Maybe that'll change this year if they can't bounce back to their usual level

 

[jonlin]

Crosby looked really bad coming back from surgery/covid, but has 13 points in his last 8 games. He was a Lindsay finalist, and 4th in hart last year. If you want to ask "who had the better season if it ended today, Crosby or Aho" - sure, it's Aho. But if you're asking if Aho has done enough to be ranked ahead of Crosby as the better player as of today, no chance.

Point - I agree his 2018-2019 season gets overrated, since he hasn't managed to repeat that yet. But you can't ignore his past 2 playoff runs. Insane performances. I think overall, that puts him easily ahead of Aho as well.

Bergeron - It's always a bit tricky with him to consider how much to weight defense vs offense. Since 2018-2019 season (so 3 seasons and this first half) offense is very close between him and Aho. 1.03 ppg for Aho to 1.00 for Bergeron. I want to say that I still rank Bergeron as the better overall player today, but I agree that it's close.

I have no problem listing Aho ahead of Scheifele - but it's probably similar tier, and I'm sure others may disagree.

I know Eichel and Malkin haven't been playing - but both are due back this season, and I consider both still better then Aho. Maybe that'll change this year if they can't bounce back to their usual level

I always look at Eichel thinking he could do so much more. The thing I like least about him, is his lackluster defensive play. Scheifele is kinda the same - good offensive player, but his 200ft game could be better.

Point and Aho are IMO same tier. Their playoff performance is actually not unsimilar:

Point 67gp 36g 37a 73p +8

Aho 34gp 14g 21a 35p +14

Both are ppg+. You can also argue putting Aho on 2017-2020 Tampa would boost his production.

 

[needforspeed]

I think it's safe to say he's cracked the Top 10 and my guess is he's there to stay. Looking at last three seasons + current one so from start of 2018-2019 among centers:
- fifth in points
- fourth in goals
- second in plus/minus

Aho has strong 200ft game, excellent at pk, seems to have improve a lot also on faceoff. Has won his team in points and goals in all but his rookie season. Even with wider margin in playoffs also being over ppg in them. I think he's best qualities are over the charts hockey IQ and extremely high will and ability to find and improve areas in his game (shot and faceoffs being among them).

 

[biturbo19]

Very easily, yes. He's extremely well-rounded too. He's a good passer, a solid goal-scorer, and he's pretty solid defensively as well. Very comfortably a Top-10 Center.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Hard to argue he's not top 10 as young guys like Hughes and Pettersson haven't taken the step. I didn't count Eichel. Not ready for Zegras yet.

McDavid
MacKinnon
Matthews
Draisaitl
Point
Crosby
Barkov
Aho
Stamkos
Scheifiele
Barzal

Off topic but how the heck is matthews ahead of drai.

 

[Get North]

Off topic but how the heck is matthews ahead of drai.

Meh. I don't know how it's so obvious, Matthews is the best player on his team and participating defensively while Draisaitl sits on the wing when he's promoted to the top line.

Who shoots better? Who skates better? I will say Draisaitl has a physical advantage and is a top 5 forward minimum as is Matthews.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Surprised I'm the only no vote so far. He's close, but I think on the outside looking in.

Names definitely ahead of him:

McDavid/Crosby/Matthews/Mack/Drai/Barkov

Names probably ahead of him:

Malkin/Eichel/Bergeron/Point

Names possibly ahead of him:

Stamkos, Schiefele. Stamkos past 3 years has a 1.09 ppg to Aho's 1.03. Scheifele is probably edge Aho for me, but I think others might disagree. Even disregarding those 2 names, there are 10 names listed above already, making Aho 11th.

I'm in the same boat, I'd have him just outside of 10

I'd probably take him over Malkin though. At his age and extensive injury history, I'd be surprised if he came back and outproduced Aho

 

[Adam da bomb]

Meh. I don't know how it's so obvious, Matthews is the best player on his team and participating defensively while Draisaitl sits on the wing when he's promoted to the top line.

Who shoots better? Who skates better? I will say Draisaitl has a physical advantage and is a top 5 forward minimum as is Matthews.

Drai is a top 3 player. Matthews is a top 5. Also the argument he’s the best player on his team, while Aho is the best player on his team. That doesn’t mean Aho is the best in league.

 

[Stephen]

It grinds my gears that someone like Sebastian Aho is still ranked behind Jack Eichel by many based on pre-NHL projections.

Aho has more career goals, higher single season point totals, higher single season goal totals, has almost surpassed Eichel for career point totals, has a healthy playoff resume, and more importantly stepped onto a rebuilding team and became a stable number one center to build around with Carolina having the success Buffalo probably should have had with Eichel (and ROR, Lehner, Kane, Reinhart, Ristolainen and friends). And we haven't even talked about Aho's defensive buy in as well. And yet, still isn't better than Eichel presumably because of draft day hype.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

TIER 1:
McDavid
Matthews
Draisaitl
MacKinnon
Crosby
TIER 2:
Eichel
Barkov
TIER 3
Aho
Point

 

[jonlin]

TIER 1:
McDavid
Matthews
Draisaitl
MacKinnon
Crosby
TIER 2:
Eichel
Barkov
TIER 3
Aho
Point

How is Eichel on a tier above Point and Aho? Less points, less goals, worse best seasons, worse playoff-performance, a lot worse defensively. And Crosby 2 tiers above - this isnt 2011...

 

[Tweaky]

Since the start of the 2018-19 season (earlier poster used that starting point:

 

[needforspeed]

Since the start of the 2018-19 season (earlier poster used that starting point:
View attachment 490536

In my books he´s 7th or 8th now.

McDavid
Draisaitl
MacKinnon
Barkov
Matthews
Point (unbelievable playoff performances)
Aho / Crosby
Stammer could be argued higher, others I disagree at the moment

Longevity is also a factor and using only PPG doesn´t show that. It´s not just bad luck, some players really are more injury prone than others . E.g. compared to Malkin Aho is far ahead in this sense. Aho missed yesterday his first game in four years and I would argue that it´s highly likely he will be in good form again in playoffs, Malkin not so sure.

Then trajectory needs to be taken account here. Majority on Top 15 centers mentioned in discussion have already been in their prime or closer to prime that Aho when looking at stats starting 2018. Looking at current season so far + last season equals actually one full season and same stats look like this:

Aho has actually been in 40G pace last 2,5 seasons, has there ever (or in last 25 years) been center that is scoring 40G pace and is not a Top 10 center in league?

 

[jonlin]

Since the start of the 2018-19 season (earlier poster used that starting point:
View attachment 490536

Care to check other things than ppg only? 2-way play is very valuable and this says a lot, when all the players except Eichel are from playoff-teams:

Aho +63
Scheifele +4
Eichel -15
Malkin -22

Aho is 2nd in +/-, only Bergeron is better. Also Aho is 4th in goals after McDavid, Drai and Matthews.

 

[cneely]

Care to check other things than ppg only? 2-way play is very valuable and this says a lot, when all the players except Eichel are from playoff-teams:

Aho +63
Scheifele +4
Eichel -15
Malkin -22

Aho is 2nd in +/-, only Bergeron is better. Also Aho is 4th in goals after McDavid, Drai and Matthews.

I despise plus minus as a stat, but there is no doubt that Aho's defensive game is on a different level from those 3 players.

 

[wetcoast]

Aho is really tearing it atm. In his 5 last games, he has 5g + 7a 12p. On the season he is:

26gp 15g 17a 32p +12 FO% 54.14

Plays all situations PK, PP and has a good 200ft game.

I have him in the Top10 and knocking Top5 as of now:

McDavid
Draisaitl
MacKinnon
Matthews
Barkov
Aho
Stamkos
Bergeron
Crosby
Point

Yes Aho is a top 10 and Kopitar should be on the list and Eichel too, Stamkos gets knocked off maybe Point as well.

 

[Stephen]

TIER 1:
McDavid
Matthews
Draisaitl
MacKinnon
Crosby
TIER 2:
Eichel
Barkov
TIER 3
Aho
Point

Point has done so much in this game in his early career. So underrated.

 

[Boreal01]

He was already considered to be in the Top 10 (Center Rankings #9) going into this season

If anything you could make an argument that he's well on his way towards surpassing Eichel and Point

Closing in on a Top 5 spot will be much more difficult though, even if Crosby suddenly drops off a cliff he'd still have to surpass Barkov