Do the owners LOSE MORE $ if there IS hockey WITH the old CBA then with a lockout?

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by SoundsGood, Oct 18, 2004.

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  1. SoundsGood

    SoundsGood Registered User

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    Dont know if this has been discussed but...

    "Karmanos said last month that he has lost $12 million to $16 million a year since buying the franchise in 1994. General manager Jim Rutherford also said last month that the franchise lost about $22 million in last year's 82-game season but expects losses of $7.5 million if no games are played in 2004-05."

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1902274

    If this is true for the entire league (for a majority of teams) then the players are in for a ride... they better start talking. :eek:

    If these numbers are true, of course... because the players seem to think that the owners dont give good numbers. But weirdly, there have been attempts from the owners to use some well known 3rd parties to help evaluate the bookeeping of each team; offer declined by the NHLPA.

    So you guys think the owners would lose less money with this lockout then without?
     
  2. Classic Devil

    Classic Devil Spirit of 1988

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    For some teams this is definitely the case. I'm not sure about the majority of the league.
     
  3. Brooklyn Ranger

    Brooklyn Ranger Registered User

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    Hey, the league claims the Rangers lost $40 million last year and yet Cablevision recently said that it would lose more because of the lockout than if the season were played. Go figure.

    And yes it is possible to lose less during a lockout than during a regular season. There are two types of costs in business: fixed costs that you pay regardless of whether you are open for business or not and variable costs. Here players salaries are variable costs and of course, the owners are not paying them because of the lockout. Since salaries are the biggest cost, then it would make sense that some teams would be paying out significantally less.

    Of course, businesses do sometimes play games with their balance sheets. Many of the largest companies pay no tax because of various accounting maneuvers where gains and losses are offset.
     
  4. Poignant Discussion*

    Poignant Discussion* I tell it like it is

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    Of course for lame duck teams like Carolina or Anaheim (2 teams that really started the overpayment mess) it would be cheaper to not play hockey. For the Canadian teams obviously that is not the case.

    I just find it sweet that the cities that don't even deserve hockey teams will be the ones in the best finacial postion during the strike.

    Then again expansion was more important to the owners in the 90's than improvments with the game of hockey, so I guess I should not find this particularly shocking.
     
  5. Poignant Discussion*

    Poignant Discussion* I tell it like it is

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    Heheh

    I'm SURE the Rangers lost 40 million dollars last year. I also believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy.

    Its easy to lose 40 million if the rent for the building is charged to you for the Knicks and the Rangers and the consessions are only going to the Knicks. Its called creative bookkeeping and its why the players or the union does not trust the NHl owners
     
  6. Famous Flames

    Famous Flames Registered User

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    Depends on the team. Not all teams lose money, so they are worse off with the lockout. Ditto the ones that have small losses.
     
  7. Benji Frank

    Benji Frank Registered User

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    According to USA Today, Carolina's payroll has been roughly 30-35 mill per for the last 4 years. If they're saying they lost 22 mill last year & 12-16 mill in prior years, what's a 31 million $ cap going to do for them??? Carolina's payroll would have had to be 13 mill last year to break even!!! Karmono's must be blind & ******ed to think he can make a go of it there with any contract in front of him!!!

    If you ask me, this is a prime example of why the players shouldn't have to accept a 31 million $ solid cap. Set it at 40 or so where the average is now & let those who can't pooh at that level, get off the pot and move on........

    Regardless, if there is a shut down for this season, prior to doing anything, Betman etal should look at the Carolina's, Anaheim's, Florida's, etc of the the league and see if it's even worth continuing to make a go of it in those markets or move/subrtact those teams from the equation prior to trying to hammer out a proposal.....
     
  8. Brooklyn Ranger

    Brooklyn Ranger Registered User

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    You don't know the half of it (by the way, Cablevision also owns MSG, I don't think charging rent would change the balance sheet very much), Cablevision has so many different things going that anyone would be hard pressed to find all the ways they hide the money.
     
  9. SoundsGood

    SoundsGood Registered User

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    I see this lockout as caused by that exactly, creative bookkeeping. If they dont want to rethink the hole booking system, I cant wait to see how this evens out.
     
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