Do the Habs go into the season "Goonless"? Part 2

[Bourne Endeavor]

Bringing up the Boston series in the playoffs and using it as some justification to diminish Lucic (and the other Boston tough guys) is short-sighted and foolish.

The playoffs are a best-of-seven series.....win 4 games and send the other team packing. Teams cannot lose discipline in a short series that will not last for more than 7 games. Coaches know this. So do the players.

Now look at an 82 game season where one loss has significantly less impact on a team. It is easy for Lucic and company to send a message without regards to winning or losing the game.

Lucic will get his revenge against Weise and Emelin. If not from Lucic, it will be from one of his teammates.

Once Prust is taken from the game on a misconduct.......who's left?

The pacifists will surely complain loudly on the Main Board about the dirty Bruins when we play them and they take advantage of our team physically.

Enjoy it!!

Boston has attempted this in the past and gotten spanked for it. In fact, the whole reason we had a thirteen game winning streak against them is due to them constantly trying to goon it up with us and losing the actual game. Besides, Gallagher can just 'accidentally' fall on/over Rask a few times to get them to knock it off.

 

[Hoople]

Boston has attempted this in the past and gotten spanked for it. In fact, the whole reason we had a thirteen game winning streak against them is due to them constantly trying to goon it up with us and losing the actual game. Besides, Gallagher can just 'accidentally' fall on/over Rask a few times to get them to knock it off.

I guess we will have to actually watch the games then.

 

[habs88]

I guess we will have to actually watch the games then.

What's our record against boston in the last 2 years?

 

[Hoople]

What's our record against boston in the last 2 years?

Last year was an outlier.

12/5/13 - Murray and Parros in the lineup. (W)

1/30/14 - Murray and Parros in the lineup. (W)

3/12/14 - Murray in the lineup. (L)

3/24/14 - Murray in the lineup. (W)

The Habs are not supposed to win games with a slow plug(s) in the lineup.

 

[Kriss E]

Bringing up the Boston series in the playoffs and using it as some justification to diminish Lucic (and the other Boston tough guys) is short-sighted and foolish.

That's funny seeing how you used the Bos-Van series to justify putting an enforcer in the game. You said they won because Thornton came back into the line up.
I guess that was short-sighted and foolish too.

The playoffs are a best-of-seven series.....win 4 games and send the other team packing. Teams cannot lose discipline in a short series that will not last for more than 7 games. Coaches know this. So do the players.

But if intimidation and the presence of an enforcer was so vital to a team then why wouldn't it be in the POs? I mean, having such a player allegedly makes the rest of the guys feel better and more confident right?? So why in god's name would you remove this boost of confidence when the games mattered most??

The fact you don't see the major contradiction here shows your clear bias.

Now look at an 82 game season where one loss has significantly less impact on a team. It is easy for Lucic and company to send a message without regards to winning or losing the game.

Any player can send a message when they want to.

Lucic will get his revenge against Weise and Emelin. If not from Lucic, it will be from one of his teammates.

Boston and Montreal has been a rivalry since forever. Lucic and any other bruin can do whatever, Emelin is still going to lay any player that he's able to line up coming across the zone.

Once Prust is taken from the game on a misconduct.......who's left?

Players that can score?

The pacifists will surely complain loudly on the Main Board about the dirty Bruins when we play them and they take advantage of our team physically.

Enjoy it!!

There is no pacifist. Every body is down to get more guys like Prust. Heck, I even said bring me MacGrattan. Just don't argue silly things like they make the whole team better by being on the bench and hold a strong positive impact on the outcome of a game.
PK Subban holds a strong impact, Price, Max, Markov, Plek, those guys do. An enforcer, no, he doesn't have an impact.

 

[Kriss E]

Intimidation is always going to be a factor in this game.

I think it can be a factor, I don't think it always is.
I don't think every game we lose to a bigger and meaner opponent is because they intimidated us.

 

[JusticeBeaver]

Bringing up the Boston series in the playoffs and using it as some justification to diminish Lucic (and the other Boston tough guys) is short-sighted and foolish.

The playoffs are a best-of-seven series.....win 4 games and send the other team packing. Teams cannot lose discipline in a short series that will not last for more than 7 games. Coaches know this. So do the players.

Now look at an 82 game season where one loss has significantly less impact on a team. It is easy for Lucic and company to send a message without regards to winning or losing the game.

Lucic will get his revenge against Weise and Emelin. If not from Lucic, it will be from one of his teammates.

Once Prust is taken from the game on a misconduct.......who's left?

The pacifists will surely complain loudly on the Main Board about the dirty Bruins when we play them and they take advantage of our team physically.

Enjoy it!!

Bringing up the Boston series, is one fresh example. That's why I used it. Judging by how defensive you got in that post, I can see why you are pro-goon. If I had to guess, whenever a team deciedes to "goon" it up against the habs, you get very, very, very emotional.

Well, so do I. They try to intimidate the habs on the ice, which is tough to watch. I get that, it sucks. Just try not to let that emotion cloud your perception. It's a forest from the trees deal, in the end it is not that big of an issue as you make it. It does not merit a roster spot. Posting we had x amount of wins with Parros and Murray in the lineup doesn't mean anything. What about the goal scorers? the playmakers? The goalies? The special teams? The flexing? Hockey has many elements, and fighting is still one of them sure, but those other elements determine roster spots.

I'd rather give the spot to a prospect, who can experience the endurance run of the season, and experience playoff hockey at a very young point in his career. Has worked for Gallagher, Galchenyuk, Eller to name a few habs, plus others around the league.

How are they going to send a message? Intent to injure? You really think that if Lucic or co. are dwelling on some bad blood and want retaliation in the form of violence, then 1 goon, on this team will stop it? It's what they do. It's a franchise identity. It's their nature. Luckily most of their players are also pretty good at hockey, so they win.

 

[Brainiac]

Ha ha! I had the last post in thread #1.

Couldn't care less about goons. Let's play hockey, it's a fun game, you know.

 

[rocketlives]

Having a heavyweight around has never seemed to work for us...don't think we will have one as the season starts, but who knows as the season goes on?

The best fighter we have right now in our farm system is Dalton Thrower. He's a defenseman and he won't be ready to play defense in the NHL before two to three years, if he ever does make it. However, I would convert him into a fourth line winger. He's not a heavy weight but he sure can take care of himself with his fists. He's not only a goon and he can play some hockey let's say around 5 to 8 minutes per game . There is also Mike McCarron who is a heavyeight being developed by the Suters with the London knights. He's a project. Let's not forget Jared Tinordi who should be ready to go next Fall.

 

[Dominator13]

The best fighter we have right now in our farm system is Dalton Thrower. He's a defenseman and he won't be ready to play defense in the NHL before two to three if he ever does make it. However, I would convert him into a fourth line winger. He's not a heavy weight but he sure can take care of himself with his fists. He's not only a goon and he can play some hockey let's say aroung 5 to 8 minutes per game maximum. There is also Mike McCarron who is a heavyeight and is being developed by the Suters with the London knights. He's a project. Let's not forget Jared Tinordi who should be ready to go next Fall.

The best fighter in our farm system is Nevins, than Crisp, Fournier and Thrower.

 

[Hoople]

That's funny seeing how you used the Bos-Van series to justify putting an enforcer in the game. You said they won because Thornton came back into the line up.
I guess that was short-sighted and foolish too.


But if intimidation and the presence of an enforcer was so vital to a team then why wouldn't it be in the POs? I mean, having such a player allegedly makes the rest of the guys feel better and more confident right?? So why in god's name would you remove this boost of confidence when the games mattered most??

The fact you don't see the major contradiction here shows your clear bias.


Any player can send a message when they want to.


Boston and Montreal has been a rivalry since forever. Lucic and any other bruin can do whatever, Emelin is still going to lay any player that he's able to line up coming across the zone.


Players that can score?


There is no pacifist. Every body is down to get more guys like Prust. Heck, I even said bring me MacGrattan. Just don't argue silly things like they make the whole team better by being on the bench and hold a strong positive impact on the outcome of a game.
PK Subban holds a strong impact, Price, Max, Markov, Plek, those guys do. An enforcer, no, he doesn't have an impact.

There are no absolutes.

 

[Hoople]

Bringing up the Boston series, is one fresh example. That's why I used it. Judging by how defensive you got in that post, I can see why you are pro-goon. If I had to guess, whenever a team deciedes to "goon" it up against the habs, you get very, very, very emotional.

Well, so do I. They try to intimidate the habs on the ice, which is tough to watch. I get that, it sucks. Just try not to let that emotion cloud your perception. It's a forest from the trees deal, in the end it is not that big of an issue as you make it. It does not merit a roster spot. Posting we had x amount of wins with Parros and Murray in the lineup doesn't mean anything. What about the goal scorers? the playmakers? The goalies? The special teams? The flexing? Hockey has many elements, and fighting is still one of them sure, but those other elements determine roster spots.

I'd rather give the spot to a prospect, who can experience the endurance run of the season, and experience playoff hockey at a very young point in his career. Has worked for Gallagher, Galchenyuk, Eller to name a few habs, plus others around the league.

How are they going to send a message? Intent to injure? You really think that if Lucic or co. are dwelling on some bad blood and want retaliation in the form of violence, then 1 goon, on this team will stop it? It's what they do. It's a franchise identity. It's their nature. Luckily most of their players are also pretty good at hockey, so they win.

Thanks Dr. Phil.

I prefer self respect over school girl emotion though.

 

[Kriss E]

There are no absolutes.

Oh wow, such a compelling argument..

 

[JusticeBeaver]

Thanks Dr. Phil.

I prefer self respect over school girl emotion though.

Your posts say otherwise.

 

[Mr. Hab]

Ha ha! I had the last post in thread #1.

Couldn't care less about goons. Let's play hockey, it's a fun game, you know.

Same here.

Hence why (imo or imho) we need a ''POLICEMAN''.
Gotta protect Subban, Price, Gallagher,etc,etc....

A policeman will let our players play hockey...the fun game.

Lucic, Chara, Colton Orr, and other criminals on ice are still there...we need a policeman/goon/''tough guy'', whatever you're going to call him.

The NHL doesn't hand out severe enough punishments and you cannot rely on the referees to see and call everything...policeman to the rescue.

Bergevin better get one.

 

[Brainiac]

So what? I don't remember when the rules changed from then to now. Lucic's famous "I'm gonna kill you next season" is blatant proof that intimidation still exists..

Lucic will get his revenge against Weise and Emelin. If not from Lucic, it will be from one of his teammates.

Dudes, did you see his post game interview? He was about to start crying. That guy is broken. Won't do anything to anyone next year, except maybe some stupid and inoffensive cheapshot for which he'll be suspended.

 

[Dominator13]

Dudes, did you see his post game interview? He was about to start crying. That guy is broken. Won't do anything to anyone next year, except maybe some stupid and inoffensive cheapshot for which he'll be suspended.

Inoffensive cheapshot fron which he'll be suspended?? Do you hear yourself man?

These beta-male nerdy turn the cheek attitude comments are really getting annoying. This is hockey! You don't let your team get abused like that, period.

 

[Dominator13]

Oh wow, such a compelling argument..

Yet it's an argument that you and more here REALLY need to start grasping soon. You guys love to pick sequences on which having an enforcer didn't do much, but when we pick a different sequence, now all of a sudden it's luck, or player X doesn't get pushed around that easily or bla bla bla. None of the pro-enforcer supporters here have ever claimed that having an enforcer = 0 injuries, but just like tying your seatbelt, it helps.

This thread badly needs an overhaul IMO. It's not about having an enforcer, it's about finding the RIGHT GUY. I don't care about trading an asset to find him, instead of a 35 year old George Parros, we need a 25 year old Chris Niel or Jared Boll that can skate and jumps on anybody who even tries to injure one of our own.

 

[izzy75]

Inoffensive cheapshot fron which he'll be suspended?? Do you hear yourself man?

These beta-male nerdy turn the cheek attitude comments are really getting annoying. This is hockey! You don't let your team get abused like that, period.

Honestly. Is it just our fan-base, or are other teams as soft and embarrassing?

I'm sorry to say - we truly deserve some of the scorn that gets thrown our way.

 

[Habs]

This thread badly needs an overhaul IMO. It's not about having an enforcer, it's about finding the RIGHT GUY. I don't care about trading an asset to find him, instead of a 35 year old George Parros, we need a 25 year old Chris Niel or Jared Boll that can skate and jumps on anybody who even tries to injure one of our own.

People here don't get it, they never will... don't bother trying to convince them. They have no idea what confidence it can bring to your softer players when you have some team toughness on that bench.

 

[Brainiac]

Inoffensive cheapshot fron which he'll be suspended?? Do you hear yourself man?

These beta-male nerdy turn the cheek attitude comments are really getting annoying. This is hockey! You don't let your team get abused like that, period.

When the "bully" is almost crying in his post-game interview, I'd say there's not much to worry about. Lucic himself was pretty much beta last playoffs against us.

Look, I'm all for team toughness and yes, the Habs could use a little more physicality. But if it means playing 4 on 5 each time the 4th line is on, I'm out.

Anybody remembers how our 4th line was effective last playoffs? Right? Because there was no goon on that line.

 

[sandysan]

Honestly. Is it just our fan-base, or are other teams as soft and embarrassing?

I'm sorry to say - we truly deserve some of the scorn that gets thrown our way.

Embarrassing, probably. As soft? Not so much. I think this might be the softest habs team in recent memory.

 

[Dominator13]

When the "bully" is almost crying in his post-game interview, I'd say there's not much to worry about. Lucic himself was pretty much beta last playoffs against us.

Look, I'm all for team toughness and yes, the Habs could use a little more physicality. But if it means playing 4 on 5 each time the 4th line is on, I'm out.

Anybody remembers how our 4th line was effective last playoffs? Right? Because there was no goon on that line.

The Lucic crying thing is so stupid I won't even comment.

But please, don't compare regular season with playoffs, it's not the same game. The playoff pace is so fast there's no time for retaliation or dirty tricks. Other than the odd fight here and there (i.e Prust vs Dorsett) there's not much going on.

But here's the issue, YOU GOTTA THERE 1ST. Protection isn't a question, it's a must, the problem is who..

 

[Sterling Archer]

If Lucic wants to fight, the Habs should do what he did and avoid him and just not fight. If he jumps him, great! Make them pay on the PP. If he calls him out, all he needs to say is George says hi.

Only way Montreal beats Boston is with our speed and antogonizing them. When we play their game, we get beat on the ice both ways. Getting under their skin is what we do best and it works so let's stick with that!

 

[Hope Of Glory]

People here don't get it, they never will... don't bother trying to convince them. They have no idea what confidence it can bring to your softer players when you have some team toughness on that bench.

Yeah, but how should we get those 25 years old elite 4th liners? Seriously, the rare teams that have one won't trade them individually. There's maybe an outside chance we get one in a bigger deal one day but even then, it's highly unlikely.

Our "only" hope is Connor Crisp who could become that type of player. But he's still a longshot though.