Do the Canucks Struggle to Deal with Adversity?

[NoShowWilly]

Do you guys think the canucks struggle to deal with adversity more than other teams?

In my opinion, this team has a severe inability to calm itself down after a bad goal. It has been this way for a number of years. It seems to play out in the same dumb way too.

1. Team gives up bad goal.

2. Team rushes off next draw to try and get goal back while rattled. Sometimes they get into the offensive end but the same thing plays out. The defense gets really aggressive giving up a premium chance the other way. Even if the goalie makes the first save, defensive composure is non-existant during this time. Results in goal.

3. Guys act tough and take a frustrated penalty. Team never kills this penalty and usually take another to give up a 5on3.

Now the team is down by 3-4 goals in a matter of about 10 minutes. Canucks get bombed out of the building.

Have others noticed this?

Click to read more...

 

[M2Beezy]

Notise a couple times but ive seen it happend to other teams to. More significance time was boston giving the hawks two goals in the last minutes of game 6 for to losing the cup. Leafs kinda last night as well.

But to support your post i remember last year there was like a 20 game stretch whered we did it in like 6 or 7 games gave up a very early to start period goal or two goals against real quick

What i try to say was last year we were awful for it and i havent seen a lot of this year i think WD is fighting hard a gainst that problem and is still some times comes out. But also has to do with the sport as happends to all other teams to

 

[Canadian Canuck]

I agree. We are not calm and collective after giving up a bad goal.

 

[NYVanfan]

agree this has been true historically, esp under torts, but also AV. Teaams as good as the Canucks were supposed to have been do not unravel and lose 8-0 in the SCF (ouch, salting the wound...)

however, i believe Willie and Miller are going a long way towards remedying this. We have only had a couple of bad games this year, and don't recall them "getting unwound" ...just some bad goaltending and a flood of pucks going in (instead of brutal breakdowns and general running around like headless chickens.) In fact several times this year they have done the opposite -- shown real composure to find a way to get the 2 pts.

we'll see if this holds

 

[Peter10]

I actually think we have seen a nice improvement over last season in that regard. The Phoenix game was more like an excemption. If it wasnt for that 3rd goal right after number 2, I still would have had confidence in that team.

Last year it felt like the game was lost if they gave up the first, this season I dont care that much as the team has proven quite a few times that they keep on playing and still have a chance to win the game.

 

[me2]

I would like to see the actual stats on this because to me it seems to be more fan imagination aka confirmation bias (grass is greener) than fact. I have no idea how to generate the starts with out access to all the game logs for all teams. It would not be to hard to generate some time between goals status for all teams with the game logs.

 

[Pioneer]

Yeah the core players have a poor attitude when it comes to facing adversity. How do we fix it? Hopefully Willie D knows!

 

[Pioneer]

I would like to see the actual stats on this because to me it seems to be more fan imagination aka confirmation bias (grass is greener) than fact. I have no idea how to generate the starts with out access to all the game logs for all teams. It would not be to hard to generate some time between goals status for all teams with the game logs.

Well no stats measure confidence. If anything irregular games are the result of confidence waning or rising. If they blow out a team, they were really confident going into it or as the game wore on. If they get blown out, its because the first period didn't go their way. They'd rather coast, and save their energy for the next one

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

and maybe herein drops ryan miller's other shoe...

terrible terrible call on the second goal, miller loses focus, the game is gone. after the game, who's the one guy still whining about it to reporters? everyone else said "we weren't good enough. the way we responded was unacceptable. you can't let a bad call deflate you like that." not ryan miller though.

and i think many of us saw what don pointed out about him on coach's corner last night. this is miller's reputation: throwing teammates under the bus, being a whiner, and generally not being a personality that drives the guys in front of him to dig deeper, take the hit to make the play, block the extra shot.

until this week, i thought: "man, that reputation is totally unfair. miller seems unflappable and the guys seem to be playing hard for him." curious to see how this relationship plays out in the coming months.

 

[Pioneer]

and maybe herein drops ryan miller's other shoe...

terrible terrible call on the second goal, miller loses focus, the game is gone. after the game, who's the one guy still whining about it to reporters? everyone else said "we weren't good enough. the way we responded was unacceptable. you can't let a bad call deflate you like that." not ryan miller though.

and i think many of us saw what don pointed out about him on coach's corner last night. this is miller's reputation: throwing teammates under the bus, being a whiner, and generally not being a personality that drives the guys in front of him to dig deeper, take the hit to make the play, block the extra shot.

until this week, i thought: "man, that reputation is totally unfair. miller seems unflappable and the guys seem to be playing hard for him." curious to see how this relationship plays out in the coming months.

Don has never liked the Canucks. Don't listen to him, and people need to stop buying the Miller Hate Kool-Aid. He's an ideal NHL starting goalie

 

[Domecile]

Not any more than other teams would I don't think.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Don has never liked the Canucks. Don't listen to him, and people need to stop buying the Miller Hate Kool-Aid. He's an ideal NHL starting goalie

that was my first reaction too, until the wife pointed out that don used to go out of his way to stick up for luongo. and obviously, the man crush on "bieska."

 

[Pioneer]

that was my first reaction too, until the wife pointed out that don used to go out of his way to stick up for luongo. and obviously, the man crush on "bieska."

Yeah true, well we'll see. Best we can do to avoid him being a cancer is to assume he's not though. We are the fan, and his supporters

 

[Pioneer]

Not any more than other teams would I don't think.

I think this is the right way of looking at it ^

 

[Tim McCracken]

Do the Canucks Struggle to Deal with Adversity?

No, it's more a reflection that they're actually a bubble team playoff wise despite their record and will continue to be until they develop a 3rd line and 2nd PP unit and reshape their D. Craps's gonna happen as it does for pretty much every team at some point in the season but there should be a sense of urgency to fix the above ASAP.

 

[thepuckmonster]

Not any more than other teams would I don't think.

Pretty much this.

 

[me2]

Well no stats measure confidence. If anything irregular games are the result of confidence waning or rising. If they blow out a team, they were really confident going into it or as the game wore on. If they get blown out, its because the first period didn't go their way. They'd rather coast, and save their energy for the next one

You don't need to measure confidence, you only need to measure effectiveness. Stats like these across all teams would paint the picture

What percentage of the time did the opponent score another goal in the next 0-1,1-2,2-3,3-5 mins. If they fold after a goal it should be showing up there as a series of massive blips while other teams don't give up goals in this time range.

% chance next goal is scored while trailing
% chance next goal is scored while trailing by 1
% chance next goal is scored while trailing by 2
etc

% chance next goal is scored while leading
% chance next goal is scored while leading by 1
% chance next goal is scored while leading by 2
etc

Time between goals against
Time between goals against while trailing by 1
Time between goals against while trailing by 2
etc

and so on.

This data will tell you if the Canucks are really any different to any other team or if fans are just imagining it. It will tell if Canucks fans are biased against the Canucks, which is more likely to be the truth ie they always forget when the Canucks score two quick goals against other teams and never call those teams mentally weak but when those teams score two quick ones against the Canucks it is remembered. Fans build up a much larger set of negative memories because they don't care to remember the other teams faults or don't see it happen to that team as they don't watch 82 games of them.

I'm going to assume it is mostly confirmation bias until I see other evidence because there are usually at least 20 teams fans whining about mental toughness and all the same things Canucks fans whine about - that just makes the Canucks normal.

 

[Pioneer]

You don't need to measure confidence, you only need to measure effectiveness. Stats like these across all teams would paint the picture

% chance next goal is scored while trailing
% chance next goal is scored while trailing by 1
% chance next goal is scored while trailing by 2
etc

% chance next goal is scored while leading
% chance next goal is scored while leading by 1
% chance next goal is scored while leading by 2
etc

Time between goals against
Time between goals against while trailing by 1
Time between goals against while trailing by 2
etc

and so on.

This data will tell you if the Canucks are really any different to any other team or if fans are just imagining it. It will tell if Canucks fans are biased against the Canucks, which is more likely to be the truth ie they always forget when the Canucks score two quick goals against other teams and never call those teams mentally weak but when those teams score two quick ones against the Canucks it is remembered. Fans build up a much larger set of negative memories because they don't care to remember the other teams faults or don't see it happen to that team as they don't watch 82 games of them.

I'm going to assume it is mostly confirmation bias until I see other evidence because there are usually at least 20 teams fans whining about mental toughness and all the same things Canucks fans whine about - that just makes the Canucks normal.

Stats are too simple to capture all the forces acting in a game. Are you going to measure the fan's reaction during the game? The coaches? Stats don't measure emotion, they may give an estimate of it. Confidence is a state brought on by emotion.

 

[Pioneer]

Stats are too simple to capture all the forces acting in a game. Are you going to measure the fan's reaction during the game? The coaches? Stats don't measure emotion, they may give an estimate of it. Confidence is a state brought on by emotion.

Actually NVM I missed your point.

 

[CherryToke]

I think they just suck at defense

 

[kanucks25]

My guess is that this is just something fans make up in their own heads in an attempt to find an explanation or look for things that aren't there.

 

[Pioneer]

I think they just suck at defense

Well they're apparently good enough to win 2/3rds of their games played

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

however, i believe Willie and Miller are going a long way towards remedying this.

No. Schneider has been the only real goalie who didn't get 'rattled' after a goal. And even he still had his moments. No one person can fix this. The team has to accept this is a problem (which I don't think they have seriously done yet) and try and find a way to react differently.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

The team folds like a cheap tent and can't nut up to fight through adversity. This core has had this problem for years. Fans are delusional to continually blame the refs for bad calls when its this team folding again and again.

Please don't delete my post. Thanks.

 

[looseneditforyou]

The Canucks have always had this reputation. The whole thing's a bit tautological in my opinion, all teams in adverse circumstances are by definition struggling to some extent, and any time that's struggling can be considered to be facing adversity. Adverse circumstances tend to end quickly when your team is really good. Psychological makeup isn't always relevant.