Do the Calgary Flames need another defenseman?
- Thread starter Wayne Primeau
- Start date
Lunatik
Registered User
- Oct 12, 2012
- 56,255
- 8,385
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Caged Great
Registered User
Ideally, the Flames would find a good #3 defenseman or one that is close to becoming that. I think the Flames will be going all out on Cody Franson and maybe trying to trade for another guy as well sort of how the Islanders acquired both Leddy and Boychuk. The Flames only have 2 reliable defensemen in Giordano and Brodie with Russell and Wideman coming off their best seasons of their career. It is yet to be determined if Russell and Wideman can repeat their performances or will they have a set back of some kind.
Personally I'd prefer acquiring two guys and having Engelland stick as the 7th D-man/13th forward.
Personally I'd prefer acquiring two guys and having Engelland stick as the 7th D-man/13th forward.
OvermanKingGainer
#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
The Flames have probably the best top pairing in the league bar none in Mark Giordano and TJ Brodie. These two players do it all - they get brutal zone starts against top-shelf opposition, and they come out of it by driving possession and scoring chances like they're Lidstrom and Doughty or something. It would be unfair how effective they were if they played on the rosters of some of these other playoff teams.
..The flames' middle pairing (or, in the case of the post-Giordano injury, the de facto top pairing) is where the first issues start to show up:
These two players are just unsatisfactory at suppressing shots against. It's not because they're individually bad players - both are decent #4-5s but as a duo you've got Wideman who's slow and has mediocre positioning, and Russell whose positioning and speed are excellent but whose size limits his effectiveness (but you can see from his fenwick against that his shotblocking makes him an NHL-calibur defender). As a pairing they lose one-on-one battles to pucks and end up spending way more time than they need to hemmed into the opponent's zone. They're good enough to not be a liability, but not good enough to be the strength people assume they are.
They had a strong year, and somehow the Flames kept on chugging even when they got upgraded to top pairing competition, but don't let that confuse you into thinking they're a top-shelf middle pairing. They can and should be upgraded if the Flames have championship aspirations. Giving Russell a partner who is better at shot suppression has shown good results, like when he's been paired with Brodie. But finding a good RHD to pair with him isn't easy or cheap. The best option this offseason is probably Cody Franson or Jeff Petry. Both players would probably be a match made in heaven with Russell, and with Gio/Brodie taking on the tough assignments, a Franson/Russell or Petry/Russell combo would excel in both shutting down opposing 2nd/3rd lines and also holding the effectiveness of the Monahan line they would likely find themselves matched with. But it's doubtful we sign a UFA at a cost that's reasonable for the Flames going forward (specifically due to the cap squeze in 2016). The Flames probably aren't looking to make any free agency splash until 2017 with uncertainties about the lack of Cap inflation.
The more realistic alternative is keeping Wideman on the middle pairing and finding a possession-driving LHD partner for him (since those are easier to find). One option the Flames already have is David Schlemko. Schlemko is a perfect fits beside Wideman. He's a rock at shot suppression while Wideman is amazing at generating scoring chances. Can he prove he's a true top 4 Dman? Brad Treliving seems to think so as he's mentioned that Schlemko was playing Top 4 minutes for Phoenix in 2012 when they made the WCF, and Schlemko's underlying stats agree with that:
That also puts Russell against less big-and-skilled competition, which would be pretty good, as long as Russell isn't paired with Engelland who like Wideman is slow and has poor positioning. There are a lot of other players the Flames are hoping can play Top 6 minutes next year. The three leading candidates among the bunch are 27-year old rookie Jakub Nakladal, 22-year old rookie Tyler Wotherspoon, and 23-year old rookie Kenney Morrison. All these guys can be passed through waivers next year, so the Flames likely see a revolving door if or until one of the three can take a stranglehold on a roster spot. All three are such unknowns at the NHL level that any of them could be a middle-pairing Dman for all we know, or maybe none of them is even a bottom pairing Dman (though Wotherspoon looked okay paired with Schlemko in the playoffs, but that's probably because Schlemko is awesome).
Since Schlemko is awesome, another great UFA signing for the Flames would be Andrej Sekera. He would be an even better pairing-mate than Wideman is.
So:
Good:
Mark Giordano in a top pairing
TJ Brodie in a top pairing
David Schemko on a middle pairing
Dennis Wideman and Kris Russell separated from each other
Dennis Wideman or Kris Russell on a bottom pairing
Bad:
Dennis Wideman and Kris Russell on a pairing together
Deryk Engelland on anything but a bottom pairing with the right partner
Unknown:
Jakub Nakladal
Tyler Wotherspoon
Kenney Morrison
John Ramage
2015 UFA Market
Not-yet-ready but could-be future-studs:
Brandon Hickey
Rushan Rafikov
Brett Kulak
Ryan Culkin
Overall, the most prudent approach for the Flames is to continue to wait-and-see until 2017, when Smid and Engelland's contracts come off the books for some cap space, and more of these young guys have developed to a point where we know what the Flames have. The biggest mistake would however be to assume that the Flames' top 4 as-is is one of the best in the league. The Top 2, yes, I'd probably even say it's the best in the league. But the falloff from that top 2 is so steep that you need to keep trying different things. Hartley can't be afraid to shuffle D-pairings other than the main one and give his #7/#8 guys minutes either.
..The flames' middle pairing (or, in the case of the post-Giordano injury, the de facto top pairing) is where the first issues start to show up:
These two players are just unsatisfactory at suppressing shots against. It's not because they're individually bad players - both are decent #4-5s but as a duo you've got Wideman who's slow and has mediocre positioning, and Russell whose positioning and speed are excellent but whose size limits his effectiveness (but you can see from his fenwick against that his shotblocking makes him an NHL-calibur defender). As a pairing they lose one-on-one battles to pucks and end up spending way more time than they need to hemmed into the opponent's zone. They're good enough to not be a liability, but not good enough to be the strength people assume they are.
They had a strong year, and somehow the Flames kept on chugging even when they got upgraded to top pairing competition, but don't let that confuse you into thinking they're a top-shelf middle pairing. They can and should be upgraded if the Flames have championship aspirations. Giving Russell a partner who is better at shot suppression has shown good results, like when he's been paired with Brodie. But finding a good RHD to pair with him isn't easy or cheap. The best option this offseason is probably Cody Franson or Jeff Petry. Both players would probably be a match made in heaven with Russell, and with Gio/Brodie taking on the tough assignments, a Franson/Russell or Petry/Russell combo would excel in both shutting down opposing 2nd/3rd lines and also holding the effectiveness of the Monahan line they would likely find themselves matched with. But it's doubtful we sign a UFA at a cost that's reasonable for the Flames going forward (specifically due to the cap squeze in 2016). The Flames probably aren't looking to make any free agency splash until 2017 with uncertainties about the lack of Cap inflation.
The more realistic alternative is keeping Wideman on the middle pairing and finding a possession-driving LHD partner for him (since those are easier to find). One option the Flames already have is David Schlemko. Schlemko is a perfect fits beside Wideman. He's a rock at shot suppression while Wideman is amazing at generating scoring chances. Can he prove he's a true top 4 Dman? Brad Treliving seems to think so as he's mentioned that Schlemko was playing Top 4 minutes for Phoenix in 2012 when they made the WCF, and Schlemko's underlying stats agree with that:
That also puts Russell against less big-and-skilled competition, which would be pretty good, as long as Russell isn't paired with Engelland who like Wideman is slow and has poor positioning. There are a lot of other players the Flames are hoping can play Top 6 minutes next year. The three leading candidates among the bunch are 27-year old rookie Jakub Nakladal, 22-year old rookie Tyler Wotherspoon, and 23-year old rookie Kenney Morrison. All these guys can be passed through waivers next year, so the Flames likely see a revolving door if or until one of the three can take a stranglehold on a roster spot. All three are such unknowns at the NHL level that any of them could be a middle-pairing Dman for all we know, or maybe none of them is even a bottom pairing Dman (though Wotherspoon looked okay paired with Schlemko in the playoffs, but that's probably because Schlemko is awesome).
Since Schlemko is awesome, another great UFA signing for the Flames would be Andrej Sekera. He would be an even better pairing-mate than Wideman is.
So:
Good:
Mark Giordano in a top pairing
TJ Brodie in a top pairing
David Schemko on a middle pairing
Dennis Wideman and Kris Russell separated from each other
Dennis Wideman or Kris Russell on a bottom pairing
Bad:
Dennis Wideman and Kris Russell on a pairing together
Deryk Engelland on anything but a bottom pairing with the right partner
Unknown:
Jakub Nakladal
Tyler Wotherspoon
Kenney Morrison
John Ramage
2015 UFA Market
Not-yet-ready but could-be future-studs:
Brandon Hickey
Rushan Rafikov
Brett Kulak
Ryan Culkin
Overall, the most prudent approach for the Flames is to continue to wait-and-see until 2017, when Smid and Engelland's contracts come off the books for some cap space, and more of these young guys have developed to a point where we know what the Flames have. The biggest mistake would however be to assume that the Flames' top 4 as-is is one of the best in the league. The Top 2, yes, I'd probably even say it's the best in the league. But the falloff from that top 2 is so steep that you need to keep trying different things. Hartley can't be afraid to shuffle D-pairings other than the main one and give his #7/#8 guys minutes either.
Last edited:
Johnny GODreau
Boom
- Aug 21, 2014
- 8,582
- 22
No thanks, we don't need another bottom pairing d-man (that's were he'd be playing on the Flames)getting paid over 3.0m.
Treliving said, we need to get bigger and faster.
I definitely disagree with the bolded. That pairing has been great for the Flames all year. They aren't perfect, but they've been a strong, reliable 2nd pairing. As for Schlemko, I wouldn't want him in the top 4. He makes a lot of mistakes with the puck. Also, Wideman and Russell aren't "decent #4-5's". They're both reliable #3-4's.
Yes. The Flames need a couple more defensemen. They really need to draft a stud or two on the blueline this draft.
BigEezyE22
Continuing to not support HF.
Mr Lebowski
Go Flames
yes
he is. While I was the biggest hater on the Flames 3rd pair for most of the year, when Gio went down Engelland stepped up and played like a top 4 defence-man, Schlemko was very reliable and a very solid 5th defence-man.
The Flames could use maybe someone like MDZ so there is room for competition, and there will be regression with Schlemko and Engelland, but they earned their spots and ice time. The Flames need top 6 scoring help and defence prospects. Another top 4 defence-man isn't a need.
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In Conroy We Trust
A healthy Giordano and a re-signed Schlemko would go a long way. I'd actually re-sign Diaz as well if he wants to stay with us for another year.
Let Wotherspoon and Morrison develop as the top pairing for Stockton next year and hope those two can make the jump for the 16/17 season as the 5/6.
Let Wotherspoon and Morrison develop as the top pairing for Stockton next year and hope those two can make the jump for the 16/17 season as the 5/6.
The only problem I have here, is that this leaves us with a logjam of defensemen. Diaz, Schlemko, Smid, Engelland, Nakladal. All for the bottom pairing.
Woodtkachuk
Registered User
- Jun 2, 2011
- 715
- 259
If anything it would be nice to get another top 4 D for added depth.
Gio - Brodie >> one of the best pairings in the NHL
Russell - Wideman >> was incredible this year together
Schlemko - Engelland >> as long as Engelland isn't playing top pairing again this is okay
We need D prospects for the future or maybe more reliable D just for depth, but this group has been nothing but impressive together. The people saying that Russell or Wideman don't belong in that second pairing haven't watched a flames game.
Gio - Brodie >> one of the best pairings in the NHL
Russell - Wideman >> was incredible this year together
Schlemko - Engelland >> as long as Engelland isn't playing top pairing again this is okay
We need D prospects for the future or maybe more reliable D just for depth, but this group has been nothing but impressive together. The people saying that Russell or Wideman don't belong in that second pairing haven't watched a flames game.
CraigsList
In Conroy We Trust
Honestly, forgot about Nakladal... Probably no to Diaz then.
Then again, Nakladal might be playing in the NHL.
I don't know. Giving Wotherspoon a shot at the 6 spot may not be the worst thing in the world.
Bring back Diaz and Schlemko for to compete for the 6th spot and depth. If Smid is healthy then give him another shot, but it sounds like he may headed to LTIR.
Another defenceman who could play 3/4 (moving Wideman to 5) wouldn't be a horrible move, but I'm not sure it's an absolute necessity either.
EDIT: Forgot about Nakladal too. I wonder if his signing is an indication Smid may not return.
Bring back Diaz and Schlemko for to compete for the 6th spot and depth. If Smid is healthy then give him another shot, but it sounds like he may headed to LTIR.
Another defenceman who could play 3/4 (moving Wideman to 5) wouldn't be a horrible move, but I'm not sure it's an absolute necessity either.
EDIT: Forgot about Nakladal too. I wonder if his signing is an indication Smid may not return.
MMC
Global Moderator
I say they go the free agent route and Sign the Calgary boy Mike Green to partner with Russell or perhaps Cody Franson. I think one of them will be a flame.
Gio,Brodie
Russel,Green/Franson
Schlemko,Wideman
Wotherspoon,Engelland
Nakladal,Morrison
Gio,Brodie
Russel,Green/Franson
Schlemko,Wideman
Wotherspoon,Engelland
Nakladal,Morrison
Keep in mind that Treliving has said that he thinks an organization needs 8-9 NHL capable Dmen, it's probably a safe bet two of Schlemko, Diaz and Potter return, plus something in Free Agency
OvermanKingGainer
#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
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