OT: Do hockey TV PBP announcers need to modernize?

HannuJ

Registered User
Nov 20, 2011
8,108
3,669
Toronno
Thought I'd open the discussion for what's a bit of a pet peeve of mine. I feel that hockey's been called the exact same way since games were called for radio audiences. Using comparisons with other pro sports, I'm wondering if anyone feels the same or has any idea how calling the game can be modernized.

First, the quick background on calling the game. It started for the radio audience. the PBP announcer would quickly describe the play, paint a visual for the audience at home, and explain what was unfolding in front of those who were not at the game and couldn't see the game.

With the advent of television...nothing really changed. Back in the day, that wasn't a big deal. a 15" black and white TV meant that you needed someone to explain that the Leafs were wearing blue jerseys, which player had the puck (they also didn't have nameplates on their jerseys), etc.

Fast forward to the 21st century. We're passing HD and now have 4D. my 42" plasma TV is obsolete, even those it's almost 3x the size of TVs from 30 years ago. 50-60" TVs are the new norm. you can read the players' nameplates on the screen if you have no idea what their jersey number is.

yet...you have some guy - usually in his 40s, and if it's Bob Cole, in their 80s - in a perch way in the nosebleeds, usually using binoculars to look at the ice and tell us what's going on. We can see what's unfolding better than they can (how many times do you hear the PBP team saying that a D-man scored when everyone at home, via the initial play and the replays, can see that a forward tipped it in?).

So do we really need someone telling us that so-and-so is skating down the wing with the puck and that he then shoots and then scored?

Baseball: different tempo than hockey. it's more about storytelling than describing anything that's unfolding. but you learn about the nuances of the game and the history of the player, team and game. the Climax = home run (PBP guy builds it up as the ball heads for the fence)
the Exclamation Point = emphasizing how good a play was, that there was a strike out.
Do we need a PBP guy? Yes. Otherwise there's lots of dead air. And we get good explanations of the plays and not just someone telling us about the play itself.
Summary = very much needed. Turns a dull sport into a more watchable sport.

Basketball: similar tempo to hockey. Similar play calling to hockey. Telling us what we're seeing.
The Climax = shot clock expiring and emphasizing urgency. But we have shot clocks on our screen that explain that.
Exclamation Point = telling us every time a player hits a (big) shot. Is it needed? Does it add to the viewer's excitement?
Summary = more for entertainment value, or edutainment. Not 100% vital to watching the game.

Football: halfway between baseball and basketball tempo-wise. PBP guy needs to fill in gaps. but what are they calling as the play unfolds? It's much more of an educational role than hockey's PBP guy is. you understand what's unfolding, you hear about formations, etc.
The Climax = time winding down. Builds excitement, not overly necessary but doesn't hurt.
Exclamation Point = when a touchdown's scored, they emphasize how big it is. can be useful at times if you're unsure that the player crossed the goalline.
Summary = football has it right. We learn the nuances of the game while the game's being announced.

So where can hockey go? Would you rather have an educational side to the game or a focus of what's going on behind the play, on the bench, etc? Or do you need someone telling you that "he shoots, he scores!"?
 

folix

Registered User
Jul 24, 2011
2,004
1,424
Thought I'd open the discussion for what's a bit of a pet peeve of mine. I feel that hockey's been called the exact same way since games were called for radio audiences. Using comparisons with other pro sports, I'm wondering if anyone feels the same or has any idea how calling the game can be modernized.

First, the quick background on calling the game. It started for the radio audience. the PBP announcer would quickly describe the play, paint a visual for the audience at home, and explain what was unfolding in front of those who were not at the game and couldn't see the game.

With the advent of television...nothing really changed. Back in the day, that wasn't a big deal. a 15" black and white TV meant that you needed someone to explain that the Leafs were wearing blue jerseys, which player had the puck (they also didn't have nameplates on their jerseys), etc.

Fast forward to the 21st century. We're passing HD and now have 4D. my 42" plasma TV is obsolete, even those it's almost 3x the size of TVs from 30 years ago. 50-60" TVs are the new norm. you can read the players' nameplates on the screen if you have no idea what their jersey number is.

yet...you have some guy - usually in his 40s, and if it's Bob Cole, in their 80s - in a perch way in the nosebleeds, usually using binoculars to look at the ice and tell us what's going on. We can see what's unfolding better than they can (how many times do you hear the PBP team saying that a D-man scored when everyone at home, via the initial play and the replays, can see that a forward tipped it in?).

So do we really need someone telling us that so-and-so is skating down the wing with the puck and that he then shoots and then scored?

Baseball: different tempo than hockey. it's more about storytelling than describing anything that's unfolding. but you learn about the nuances of the game and the history of the player, team and game. the Climax = home run (PBP guy builds it up as the ball heads for the fence)
the Exclamation Point = emphasizing how good a play was, that there was a strike out.
Do we need a PBP guy? Yes. Otherwise there's lots of dead air. And we get good explanations of the plays and not just someone telling us about the play itself.
Summary = very much needed. Turns a dull sport into a more watchable sport.

Basketball: similar tempo to hockey. Similar play calling to hockey. Telling us what we're seeing.
The Climax = shot clock expiring and emphasizing urgency. But we have shot clocks on our screen that explain that.
Exclamation Point = telling us every time a player hits a (big) shot. Is it needed? Does it add to the viewer's excitement?
Summary = more for entertainment value, or edutainment. Not 100% vital to watching the game.

Football: halfway between baseball and basketball tempo-wise. PBP guy needs to fill in gaps. but what are they calling as the play unfolds? It's much more of an educational role than hockey's PBP guy is. you understand what's unfolding, you hear about formations, etc.
The Climax = time winding down. Builds excitement, not overly necessary but doesn't hurt.
Exclamation Point = when a touchdown's scored, they emphasize how big it is. can be useful at times if you're unsure that the player crossed the goalline.
Summary = football has it right. We learn the nuances of the game while the game's being announced.

So where can hockey go? Would you rather have an educational side to the game or a focus of what's going on behind the play, on the bench, etc? Or do you need someone telling you that "he shoots, he scores!"?



They had a interview with the Flordia's new TV play by play guy and he said in Flordia's arena he actually sits almost at ICE level between the two benches. He comes from the radio where he actually sat prob in the press box calling the game out where Cole does.

The difference he said that made was immense. Not to mention I think the audio as well. I know there is foul language but I think its a risk the NHL should take. Game Audio is the key here. If you can put more mics at the rink level even put one on that camera in the net some along the boards in the different zones to really submerge the TV audience in the presentation, I think that would be immense.

Also I would LOVE to see a "flying" camera like they have in the NFL but for the NHL, It wouldnt have to be that big, hell it could even run on a track around boards, but to give the TV the chance to follow the rush at ice level with the player would be really cool.

I do think that new broadcasters need to be brought in, Paul Edmonds is a great example, I wish my TV broad cast was in sync with the radio one, because I would mute my TV 100% of the time. You need broadcasters like that. More "on the edge" broadcasters, they are more modern and exciting to listen too.
 

pegjets

Oh Canada
Apr 4, 2013
977
4
I usually prefer the insights from whoever is standing between the two benches instead of the PBP announcer in the press box. They often see things and can provide insight beyond what we see, since our vantage point on screen is largely the same as the PBP announcer.

I think this is probably a broader conversion about hockey broadcasts. Lots of people aren't even watching games on TV anymore. Many people watch games on their phones, smaller laptop screen, or tablets. So some of the comments about having large TVs not needing to read nameplates don't apply to all form factors. What is changing and will change is what we can do.

The technology is out there to put a 3D camera in the arena over center ice. Wouldn't it be cool if we could pan, pinch and zoom ourselves to follow the game from any angle we want? We would have full control to customize our own broadcast. There's already the gamecenter that allows multiple cameras on screen at one time as well. Lots of possibilities for broadcasts to evolve beyond a 45 degree angle camera and then replays from other angles after the fact.
 

Channelcat

Unhinged user
Feb 8, 2013
18,185
14,254
Canada
I hate PBP....its completely archaic. The NHL really needs to shift more toward a true in game experience. Its about 40 years behind the times.
 

YWGinYYZ

Registered User
Jul 3, 2011
28,480
7,117
Toronto
I'd love to see someone try a drone over the ice - I know there are probably some safety concerns, but damn: that would be cool.

Agree with the premise of the OP - the PBP guys could use some modernization. I actually prefer when the colour commentators are gabbing away, as I can SEE what's going on with the play, but wouldn't mind some more background info while I'm watching. Not sure what the solution is, but it sounds like the Florida broadcast changes had a positive effect. I'll have to check out one of their games to see what the commentary is like.
 

Channelcat

Unhinged user
Feb 8, 2013
18,185
14,254
Canada
I'd love to see someone try a drone over the ice - I know there are probably some safety concerns, but damn: that would be cool.

Agree with the premise of the OP - the PBP guys could use some modernization. I actually prefer when the colour commentators are gabbing away, as I can SEE what's going on with the play, but wouldn't mind some more background info while I'm watching. Not sure what the solution is, but it sounds like the Florida broadcast changes had a positive effect. I'll have to check out one of their games to see what the commentary is like.

I agree, plus they are always behind the play. The pbp is much like having someone read yesterdays newspaper to you, while your trying to scroll through your twitter feeds.
 

HannuJ

Registered User
Nov 20, 2011
8,108
3,669
Toronno
I'd love to see someone try a drone over the ice - I know there are probably some safety concerns, but damn: that would be cool.

Agree with the premise of the OP - the PBP guys could use some modernization. I actually prefer when the colour commentators are gabbing away, as I can SEE what's going on with the play, but wouldn't mind some more background info while I'm watching. Not sure what the solution is, but it sounds like the Florida broadcast changes had a positive effect. I'll have to check out one of their games to see what the commentary is like.

as a white-ish 40 year old male, i'm going to say something that may be controversial:
hockey broadcasts are way to white. that make any sense?
i feel like i'm sitting at a Jack Astors or Moxie's and listening to 3 middle-aged white guys tell me about their squash round robin or maxing out their RRSPs or about this crazy party they were at where a guy was playing tunes on his iPod and then a slab cake with candles was brought out and everyone sang "happy birthday!" and it was wild because it was so off tune.

hearing terms like "puck presence", "absolutely!" and those other silly catch phrases that these announcers learn from Starch Collar Broadcast School drives me nuts.

i also feel like guys from head office had a meeting and said "look, it's the 21st century. we don't have flying cars yet, but maybe it's time to, ya know, introduce non-white Anglo Saxon males to the broadcast." so they bring in a few women - which i applaud - and the women (looking at you, Cassie Campbell) talk exactly like the 40 year old white males! corporate speak. "Absolutely!" and then you have Steve Weeks on the broadcast, which, again, it's about time to see someone with skintone on a CBC or Sportsnet broadcast. and Steve Weeks is exactly what corporate wants because, again, another "Absolutely!" guy.

Everyone sounds like they should be reading the weather and stock tickers and not talking about sports. drives me nuts!

hockey needs a Jack Armstrong type. passion in a colour broadcast. and no, Garry Galley is not passionate. he's just gaseous and tired.
 

Mike Martin

Registered User
Nov 1, 2013
1,807
4
as a white-ish 40 year old male, i'm going to say something that may be controversial:
hockey broadcasts are way to white. that make any sense?
i feel like i'm sitting at a Jack Astors or Moxie's and listening to 3 middle-aged white guys tell me about their squash round robin or maxing out their RRSPs or about this crazy party they were at where a guy was playing tunes on his iPod and then a slab cake with candles was brought out and everyone sang "happy birthday!" and it was wild because it was so off tune.

hearing terms like "puck presence", "absolutely!" and those other silly catch phrases that these announcers learn from Starch Collar Broadcast School drives me nuts.

i also feel like guys from head office had a meeting and said "look, it's the 21st century. we don't have flying cars yet, but maybe it's time to, ya know, introduce non-white Anglo Saxon males to the broadcast." so they bring in a few women - which i applaud - and the women (looking at you, Cassie Campbell) talk exactly like the 40 year old white males! corporate speak. "Absolutely!" and then you have Steve Weeks on the broadcast, which, again, it's about time to see someone with skintone on a CBC or Sportsnet broadcast. and Steve Weeks is exactly what corporate wants because, again, another "Absolutely!" guy.

Everyone sounds like they should be reading the weather and stock tickers and not talking about sports. drives me nuts!

hockey needs a Jack Armstrong type. passion in a colour broadcast. and no, Garry Galley is not passionate. he's just gaseous and tired.

Huh? I didn't know that the proper use of the English language was "White". :shakehead
 

SCP Guy

Registered User
Jun 21, 2011
6,416
3,898
The Peg
They had a interview with the Flordia's new TV play by play guy and he said in Flordia's arena he actually sits almost at ICE level between the two benches. He comes from the radio where he actually sat prob in the press box calling the game out where Cole does.

The difference he said that made was immense. Not to mention I think the audio as well. I know there is foul language but I think its a risk the NHL should take. Game Audio is the key here. If you can put more mics at the rink level even put one on that camera in the net some along the boards in the different zones to really submerge the TV audience in the presentation, I think that would be immense.

Also I would LOVE to see a "flying" camera like they have in the NFL but for the NHL, It wouldnt have to be that big, hell it could even run on a track around boards, but to give the TV the chance to follow the rush at ice level with the player would be really cool.

I do think that new broadcasters need to be brought in, Paul Edmonds is a great example, I wish my TV broad cast was in sync with the radio one, because I would mute my TV 100% of the time. You need broadcasters like that. More "on the edge" broadcasters, they are more modern and exciting to listen too.

Funny you mention Florida....I watched their feed on the Jets game and they could not have done a worse job if they had their backs turned to the ice.....Know some basic NHL rules before you do play by play for the love of God :shakehead

I just use play by play to drowned out the kids anyways
 

ellismate

Registered User
Jun 9, 2015
499
0
SK
Yeah I disagree that it needs to be revamped. I love a good ol fashioned Canadian broadcast. I've watched some games on southern feeds and it makes the game really hard to get into. Its also not that easy to have instant number recognition and it also helps with having the game on while doing other stuff
 

Ducky10

Searching for Mark Scheifele
Nov 14, 2014
19,809
31,386
I hate PBP....its completely archaic. The NHL really needs to shift more toward a true in game experience. Its about 40 years behind the times.

Just curious, what was happening 40 years ago that the NHL missed out on compared with other major sports?
 

cheswick

Non-registered User
Mar 17, 2010
6,773
1,113
South Kildonan
I disagree in regards to players names. I have a 55" TV and can't make out players names on their jerseys unless its a zoomed in shot. I agree that they don't have to call every play but I appreciate knowing who has the puck from the opposition since I don't know their numbers. That's ofcourse when someone besides Beyak is calling the game cause he gets the names wrong all the time. I've seen plays where he's called the opposition player by two different names and they were both wrong during the same play. But I digress.

I personally really enjoy british calling of football (soccer) matches. They don't feel the need to describe every last detail. They'll simply say the players name when he gets the ball without the need to say passes here and passes there.
 

Bartho

Registered User
Feb 26, 2013
824
244
Wpg
They're calling the game for non-fanatics too. Not everyone watching has memorized all the rosters and knows exactly what's going on.
It's a fast paced game and occasionally mistakes get made. The decent pbp guys generally correct themselves. It happens in other sports too. I don't really see the problem.
 

ps241

The Ballad of Ville Bobby
Sponsor
Mar 10, 2010
34,903
31,361
Interesting OP

I have to admit I have felt there is room to modernize this and add value. For the most part the PBP guys in hockey set the mood and its much more about creating excitement than telling me who has the puck. Oddly as long as I am watching the game it can be in another language and for the most part the PBP is almost as effective because its about building excitement more than delivering content.

When I think of how live sports are called I think the best at it are like story tellers that take you on a journey. The best feel the mood of the game and can build drama very well.

Two prime examples of genius.

Vin Scully LA Dodgers. He just made the sport magic for so long and I do not like baseball (But......baseball ain't hockey)

Martin Tyler. When we lost the Jets in 1996 I was angry at the NHL and lost for a few winters but decided to become a fan of English football in 1999. I absolutely fell in love with the sport and one of the major reasons I believe was Martin Tyler. How he handles a flow sport like Football is how I might envision a starting point of a more modern hockey call. Hockey is faster paced higher touch sport than Footie but Tyler is a master at weaving in and out of play calls. Like a fine virtuoso he absolutely understands the blend of calling the plays while weaving a story.

Blue sky alert!!!!

In a perfect world I wish he had incredible knowledge of hockey and then execs (wink wink HannuJ) sat down with him and said Martin we are looking for a fresh take on how to call Hockey, we are leaving this in your hands but we want you to call the hockey game the way Martin Tyler would call a football match. Know shackles of history to hold him back and just see what he could come up with.

Anyways not sure I could get more obscure with my answer so..........goodnight! :laugh:


Ok LOL I took so long to do this that I noticed cheswick made a similar point.
 
Last edited:

Evil Little

Registered User
Jan 22, 2014
6,311
2,739
For me, the primary benefit of play-by-play commentary is very similar to a traditional movie score. It manipulates me into thinking every scoring chance is exciting. If a game actually is really good then all the better.

Bob Cole is the absolute king of this, so he can call everyone on the ice Chef-ly, or do the whole game in Esperanto for all I care.

The other side is the actual practical help. I may see a nice play, but not notice who made it, and possibly not even recognize that I'd like to know who made it, but if Beyak says "nice little play by Copp," then it does increase my comprehension. Colour commentators' whole job is basically like this--point out and replay a play that most viewers didn't notice. Some of them are terrible at it, of course (Engblom, I'm looking at you).

Agree with the premise of the OP - the PBP guys could use some modernization. I actually prefer when the colour commentators are gabbing away, as I can SEE what's going on with the play, but wouldn't mind some more background info while I'm watching. Not sure what the solution is, but it sounds like the Florida broadcast changes had a positive effect. I'll have to check out one of their games to see what the commentary is like.

I agree with you in theory, but much less in practice. I find that Sportsnet's supposed A team (Hughson, Simpson, Healy) have an awful tendency to chit-chat through extended pressure and even scoring chances. I think it's very disrespectful to the game.

I doesn't help that I think Hughson is one of the most filthy homers in the league who ignores the game until "JVR" or, formerly, "Dion" gets a grade-C scoring chance, then acts like it's game 7.

Interesting OP

I have to admit I have felt there is room to modernize this and add value. For the most part the PBP guys in hockey set the mood and its much more about creating excitement than telling me who has the puck. Oddly as long as I am watching the game it can be in another language and for the most part the PBP is almost as effective because its about building excitement more than delivering content.

When I think of how live sports are called I think the best at it are like story tellers that take you on a journey. The best feel the mood of the game and can build drama very well.

As I wrote above, I very much agree with you, but especially the bolded. Maybe that's why I don't really like Edmonds. He's only got two gears: yelling, and screaming.
 

Ducky10

Searching for Mark Scheifele
Nov 14, 2014
19,809
31,386
The best announcers have the ability to ramp up the tension and make viewers more engaged. The best analysts talk about the the things that happen that set the table for the more obvious things that happen like scoring a goal. Nothing worse than an analyst simply telling you how the player shot the puck in the net. The little plays that often happen off of the main camera focus is much more interesting and are the things you notice watching live.

Definitely ice level and overhead cameras would be a great addition as well as more enhanced audio feeds.

Oh, and the vast majority of baseball analysts are in the dark ages. Pitcher wins and batting averages....good grief.
 

Derfel*

Guest
I'd pay extra for a channel/stream that didn't have PBP, but instead had microphones on either bench, in all four corners and behind each of the nets that you could "tune" into for uncensored sound and conversation from the players and refs.

That being said - when I've watched 10-12 games on TV and then I go and watch one live, it takes me about 90 seconds or so to adjust to not having a play-by-play account of the action (who has the puck, who hit who, etc.) So that tells me I grow accustomed to it and appreciate it on a deeper level than I realize.
 

BigZ65

Registered User
Feb 2, 2010
12,355
5,319
Winnipeg
The best sports television experience I've had recently was watching the NCAA Football Championship on TSN2. They had a regular broadcast on the main network, but on TSN2 they had 6 current NCAA coaches (3 offensive, 3 defensive) and 2 ESPN analysts in a film room breaking down the game in real-time. It was amazing.

Play-by-play is for radio. A guy like Beyak is particularly bad because he doesn't understand the value of some dead air.
 

JetsUK

Registered User
Oct 1, 2015
6,822
14,455
This is a great thread. I generally turn off the PBP to decrease the distraction (a worrying sign) but then I miss the tempo that a good PBP brings. I think part of the problem is narrative -- most callers don't see a game as a story but as a inner monologue, non-linear and dissonant, full of non-sequiteurs, like listening to kids chatting on a bus. There's no story of the game, just chatter punctuated by exclamations, and its a tonal mishmash as well.

I lived in MTL as a kid and Dick Irvin's calls, however bizarre they became by the end, could be magic, especially in the POs. One of the very few periods where I had the earphones in while standing mid-tier at the old Forum -- also magic, until you found yourself in one of the nightly mini-riots.

UKJ
 

Ducky10

Searching for Mark Scheifele
Nov 14, 2014
19,809
31,386
Oh, and agreed on Martin Tyler, he is the Shakespeare of pbp announcing.
 

KCjetsfan

Registered User
Jul 14, 2012
3,035
455
Gardner KS
I disagree in regards to players names. I have a 55" TV and can't make out players names on their jerseys unless its a zoomed in shot. I agree that they don't have to call every play but I appreciate knowing who has the puck from the opposition since I don't know their numbers. That's ofcourse when someone besides Beyak is calling the game cause he gets the names wrong all the time. I've seen plays where he's called the opposition player by two different names and they were both wrong during the same play. But I digress.

I personally really enjoy british calling of football (soccer) matches. They don't feel the need to describe every last detail. They'll simply say the players name when he gets the ball without the need to say passes here and passes there.

was going to post the same thing - 'soccer' PBP is minimalist and lets atmosphere tell the story, while still filling in little details such as player names. I think that works both for huge TVs and little tablets. Maybe I don't know 55 is Scheifele, so tell me it's him, but you don't need to say that he's streaking down the wing.
 

Analyst365

Registered User
Oct 24, 2011
3,904
1,025
Victoria
I like to cook during the first period and a half of a lot of games, Jets or not, so I prefer to have a comprehensive PBP going so I can concentrate on what I'm doing instead of slicing my fingers off.
 

ps241

The Ballad of Ville Bobby
Sponsor
Mar 10, 2010
34,903
31,361
The best sports television experience I've had recently was watching the NCAA Football Championship on TSN2. They had a regular broadcast on the main network, but on TSN2 they had 6 current NCAA coaches (3 offensive, 3 defensive) and 2 ESPN analysts in a film room breaking down the game in real-time. It was amazing.

Play-by-play is for radio. A guy like Beyak is particularly bad because he doesn't understand the value of some dead air.

I would absolutely love that. I didn't even know that was available???
 

AlphaLackey

Registered User
Mar 21, 2013
17,116
25,418
Winnipeg, MB
as a white-ish 40 year old male, i'm going to say something that may be controversial:
hockey broadcasts are way to white. that make any sense?

Given that the rest of your point goes directly to concede that there's absolutely no difference whatsoever between what the white males are offering and the non-white non-males are offering, then no, it doesn't make a damn bit of sense.

And let's not pretend your viewpoint is the controversial one anymore. Yours is the Textus Receptus of this day and age; disagreeing with its orthodoxy is what's controversial now.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad