Do cups define the player?

[btlaffin]

It defines Toews, so I'll say yeah

 

[Anglesmith]

Definitely no. And I think everyone knows that. But we seem to have this tendency to want quantifiable measures of success rather than talking about players subjectively, and that's why it persists.

By the way, I've seen someone argue on these boards, in earnest, that Dave Bolland is and has always been a better player than Jarome Iginla. Because cups.

 

[Lebowski]

Some players get overrated due to their team success and increased exposure in the playoffs... I think that's a given.

On a similar note, some players get underrated based on a lack of Stanley Cups, which is downright silly considering the amount of things that factor in a cup win.

 

[Angry Hockey Dad]

If cups make a player good, Jerome Iginla must be garbage hey?

 

[viceroy]

Does winning a cup define a player? Nope but being a playoff hero does.

Just look at Halak. Had a great run a couple of years back with the Habs and he is still defined by that run. You see it's not even necessary to win the Cup, your performance in the playoffs is enough.

Others just play better during the playoffs, guys like Claude Lemieux and now Quick do find an extra gear at that time of the year.

Now that's why people judge Thornton so harshly. Sure he's a future HOF'er but has he ever accomplished anything like Halak during a playoff run?

 

[Demon Eyes]

6 Stanley Cup Wins did define Kevin Lowe as a player. But it also defined his arrogance which carried over when he got promoted to General Manager and then the President of Hockey Operations.

"And lasty, there's one other guy that's working in hockey today that's won more cups than me, so I think I know a little bit about winning, if there's ever a concern"

that's funny cause there's at least 3 who have won more then him working in hockey today.

 

[KINGS17]

Justin Williams is a pretty good guy to have on your hockey team, just sayin'.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

Seeing a lot of "this player is better then that player because of cup wins". In a truely objective argument about player rankings does a cup ring mean much? Or is it a which team is better argument? Plenty of great players have played the game without winning the big one

Ask Marcel Dionne that question.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

Some players get overrated due to their team success and increased exposure in the playoffs... I think that's a given.

On a similar note, some players get underrated based on a lack of Stanley Cups, which is downright silly considering the amount of things that factor in a cup win.

I don't know about that... Look at Colin Fraser..

Some guys are driving forces in their teams success while others are just along for the ride.

 

[Blueland89]

Absolutely not, I could see If they agree a big corner store piece but typically no.


Shawn Thornton won two cups, does that make him better than Giroux?

 

[BHD]

For certain players, yes.

 

[Mynameismark*]

I'll take Dale Hawerchuk on my team any day over the likes of any Oiler in the 80's not named Gretzky or Messier.

 

[TheAngryHank]

When you have players like Bure and Fedorov , Yes..

Bure might have more flash and more 50 goal seasons but who would you rather have?
Feds was a playoff beast and sometimes coasted during the regular season. He was key to the Wings Cup runs.
You could start a thread here who was better Feds or Bure , many would say Bure, I however would not.

 

[TheAngryHank]

Absolutely not, I could see If they agree a big corner store piece but typically no.


Shawn Thornton won two cups, does that make him better than Giroux?

What about McCarty? He was clutch as was Maltby or Draper ? Best checking line ever and scored HUGE goals, for a while Maltby was more clutch than Drury for the Avs.

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

When you have players like Bure and Fedorov , Yes..

Bure might have more flash and more 50 goal seasons but who would you rather have?
Feds was a playoff beast and sometimes coasted during the regular season. He was key to the Wings Cup runs.
You could start a thread here who was better Feds or Bure , many would say Bure, I however would not.

I'd take Fedorov too, but you're making it sound like Bure is a playoff choker.

 

[TheAngryHank]

I'd take Fedorov too, but you're making it sound like Bure is a playoff choker.

Bure was a big timer , but like we agreed Feds was the superior of the two.Fedorov was pure $$

 

[G0AT]

IMO and like some that have already posted...

Basketball is defined by it. Hockey not as much.

 

[octopi]

When you have players like Bure and Fedorov , Yes..

Bure might have more flash and more 50 goal seasons but who would you rather have?
Feds was a playoff beast and sometimes coasted during the regular season. He was key to the Wings Cup runs.
You could start a thread here who was better Feds or Bure , many would say Bure, I however would not.

Feds was an excellent 2 way player.Bure was an exceptional player that helped lead his underdog team to the cup finals. But Feds was pure and simply, better.

i sure do miss the days when the Wings were icing Yzerman-Feds-Larionov-Draper down the center.


Fun Cup facts
-Kirk maltby has 4
-Steve Yzerman was considered the ultimate player choker until he lifted the cup at age 32
-Jagr and Lemieux have 2 cups as players, Yzerman and Fedorov, 3.Who do you think were the better players?
-Gretzky only made the finals once after leaving Edmonton despite playing for some Rangers teams rthat looked stacked on paper.
-despite some god regular seasons, the Flames often lost to the underdog team and rarely made it out of the First round. After winning it all in 89 if memory serves 2004 when they made the run to the finals was their only tri past the first round(correct me if wrong)

 

[Mickey Marner]

No, contributions to cup wins define the player.

 

[Laveuglette]

No, and Harts/Norris/Lindsays/alouette neither. Voted (always subjectively, not always by great hockey minds) awards or teams awards don't mean much when comparing players.

 

[10coach*]

The only sport I could see this argument being legitimate would be basketball. One player can't make a difference in most sports

Agreed but there are very rare exceptions like Madison Bumgarner this fall.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

When you have players like Bure and Fedorov , Yes..

Bure might have more flash and more 50 goal seasons but who would you rather have?
Feds was a playoff beast and sometimes coasted during the regular season. He was key to the Wings Cup runs.
You could start a thread here who was better Feds or Bure , many would say Bure, I however would not.

I always take the 2-way player.

Fedorov could score and defend.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

If cups make a player good, Jerome Iginla must be garbage hey?

And Rupp is a legend

 

[KaseMeOutside]

I think it's a very stupid way to evaluate a player. 1 guy can only do so much, if he is surrounded by a mediocre organization

 

[LightningStorm]

Of course not. This oversimplification of an argument is common because it's a lazy argument, not a good one.