Prospect Info: Discussion on previous prospects where things went wrong

[Canovin]

Our development team down in AHL. There's something wrong there.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Our development team down in AHL. There's something wrong there.

My concern is the fact the vets are getting so much icetime and the kids are no seeing the ice as much as i would like. But that is just me

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

My concern is the fact the vets are getting so much icetime and the kids are no seeing the ice as much as i would like. But that is just me

The sad thing is that most of our prospects aren't doing anything to earn the ice time.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

The sad thing is that most of our prospects aren't doing anything to earn the ice time.

Probably because most of prospects were taken in the 3rd round or later...

 

[Dempsey]

Sometimes I wonder if a player can truly be ruined or not...like maybe prospects who have everything to become star players will get there no matter the path. And players who "busted" due to being rushed, would have busted regardless.

Joe Thornton. 7 points in his rookie year.
Shane Doan. 17 points as a rookie.
Keith Primeau 15 points as a rookie.

These three players could've instead gone back to junior for another year and completely destroyed it, but would their NHL careers have been any different for it? If any of these three had busted, people would be pointing to them as classic examples of a team ruining a player. But the teams didn't ruin those players by bringing them in too early. Those guys found their way because they had it in them all along.

Maybe if Gagner went back to London for another year and put up 150+ points he still would've only gotten around 40 points in the NHL every year after.

Jason Spezza was brought along slowly by Ottawa considering his pre-draft hype, and didn't make the NHL full-time until he was 20. He had a pretty good 55 points as a 20-year-old. Now, if he had played in the NHL as an 18-year old and gotten, say, 15 points...Would he not have had a relatively similar career to what he's had? Would he have been ruined?

I know there is merit to how a team handles a player at the NHL level and how it relates to them developing, but I'm beginning to at the very least question if, for the most part, busts would've busted no matter how they were handled. And maybe to a lesser extent, star players who weren't "rushed" would've been just fine having a low-scoring season as a teenager rather than play in junior another year.

Interesting thought at least.

 

[Staghorn]

Bad scouting.
Bad player development.
Bad coaching staff.
Bad management.

What about Musil? Does that blown 2nd pick ever have a chance of growing into a 5/6 at the NHL level? Unreal that Boone Jenner was taken after... How would that guy look on this team. Wow.

 

[OilTastic]

great speed, no hands and only corners he went into were corner stores

^i think Sather got fooled by Kelly's speed, and therefore took him over Doan.

as far as Gagner goes, i have had arguments with Oiler fans about this guy before. in my opinion, another year in junior likely would not have made him into a scoring machine. he doesn't have enough speed or size to be any better at scoring in the NHL. what you see is basically what you get.

 

[OilTastic]

What about Musil? Does that blown 2nd pick ever have a chance of growing into a 5/6 at the NHL level? Unreal that Boone Jenner was taken after... How would that guy look on this team. Wow.

granted we needed big d-men at the time, and Musil was still there and fit the bill, but it's unreal that a big center like Boone Jenner was passed on, a potential #1 goalie in John Gibson was passed on too, as well as power forward Brandon Saad....all passed on by our genius scouts at the time. big forwards with moderate offensive abilities like Brett Richie and Victor Rask were still there too. too bad for us i guess.

 

[lakai17]

Hartikainen is looking like one of the best forwards in Europe today the locals their saying.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Hartikainen is looking like one of the best forwards in Europe today the locals their saying.

he is a very coachable player. His game has gotten better here in Europe.

 

[lakai17]

he is a very coachable player. His game has gotten better here in Europe.

At the age of 25 just entering his prime today, it will be interesting to see the progression definitely. Thrown to the wolves at a bad time in Edmonton, nice to see his head is up still.

 

[Jumptheshark]

At the age of 25 just entering his prime today, it will be interesting to see the progression definitely. Thrown to the wolves at a bad time in Edmonton, nice to see his head is up still.

he did everthing the oiler's asked him to do and it was not enough.. from what I gather the oilers saw him as Cam Neely type player and that he is not

 

[A91]

I personally think Maggie was ready to take the next step, should have been given top6 minutes in his second season.
Us bringing in Smytty to play a top six role wasn't the best in MPS development, it pushed him down the lineup where he wasn't successful, which absolutely destroyed his confidence.
That being said Smyth was a great mentor for the team, and if I remember correctly was RNH's winger for the majority of the season, probably helped RNH tremendously.

Gagner and Paajarvi are definitely on us. I think they would be stars if drafted by most other teams.

 

[Philly85*]

he did everthing the oiler's asked him to do and it was not enough.. from what I gather the oilers saw him as Cam Neely type player and that he is not

Hartikainen had plenty of opportunity and couldn't do the one thing the team asked him to do consistently: lay the body, be physical

That's pretty much all they wAntes him to, crunch guys, hit guys, get dirty, and he couldn't do it.

 

[RuneMcEres]

I don't think he will be on the team... Apparently [Omark] is a new man, humble and wise (in the news the other day), but I'll believe it when I see it.

I read somewhere recently that he has struggled with depression. Probably not a good situation when playing for a bottom feeder. I think he's the kind of guy that needs to feel secure in his surroundings to perform. Obviously it didn't work out here.

 

[Ace101]

Sometimes I wonder if a player can truly be ruined or not...like maybe prospects who have everything to become star players will get there no matter the path. And players who "busted" due to being rushed, would have busted regardless.

Joe Thornton. 7 points in his rookie year.
Shane Doan. 17 points as a rookie.
Keith Primeau 15 points as a rookie.

These three players could've instead gone back to junior for another year and completely destroyed it, but would their NHL careers have been any different for it? If any of these three had busted, people would be pointing to them as classic examples of a team ruining a player. But the teams didn't ruin those players by bringing them in too early. Those guys found their way because they had it in them all along.

Maybe if Gagner went back to London for another year and put up 150+ points he still would've only gotten around 40 points in the NHL every year after.

Jason Spezza was brought along slowly by Ottawa considering his pre-draft hype, and didn't make the NHL full-time until he was 20. He had a pretty good 55 points as a 20-year-old. Now, if he had played in the NHL as an 18-year old and gotten, say, 15 points...Would he not have had a relatively similar career to what he's had? Would he have been ruined?

I know there is merit to how a team handles a player at the NHL level and how it relates to them developing, but I'm beginning to at the very least question if, for the most part, busts would've busted no matter how they were handled. And maybe to a lesser extent, star players who weren't "rushed" would've been just fine having a low-scoring season as a teenager rather than play in junior another year.

Interesting thought at least.

I think it has to do with the player. Someone might be a fringe guy but if he meets the right coaches and is in the right spot could be a star, if not he might burn out of the league. Then you'll have some guys who are talented enough and care so much about doing good it doesn't matter they'll get there, the easy way or the hard way. Some guys can dominate junior but aren't willing to go really head-on with training 100% when they make it to the league then they can't get by on just natural talent.

 

[Ace101]

I personally think Maggie was ready to take the next step, should have been given top6 minutes in his second season.
Us bringing in Smytty to play a top six role wasn't the best in MPS development, it pushed him down the lineup where he wasn't successful, which absolutely destroyed his confidence.
That being said Smyth was a great mentor for the team, and if I remember correctly was RNH's winger for the majority of the season, probably helped RNH tremendously.

Gagner and Paajarvi are definitely on us. I think they would be stars if drafted by most other teams.

Yeah, there's this Bill Simmonds quote. "It’s the nightmare scenario for any modern basketball star — jump to the NBA after one college season, land on a few lottery teams, never meet the right veteran teammate, never play for the right coach. We pay them like franchise players before they’re ready, and we expect them to magically evolve into leaders by watching a few dozen sports movies or getting advice from their buddies from home. Too many times, they end up like Kevin Love did: mired for six solid years in the wrong situation, learning all the wrong lessons on the wrong team. And then we wonder why they can’t lead a mediocre team to the playoffs. They can’t win, and they can’t win." Then people look at them like they how could they have possibly busted. Of course you'll have outliers in sports like a LeBron who would've been dominant wherever he went but a lot of guys just don't have those skills or are willing to train that hard by themselves. Most guys however need someone to guide their talent. Look at Yakupov it's not 100% certain but I believe if he got to play on another team with the opportunity to play with better players then he got to here and learn about his mistakes instead of being benched he'd be much better. I don't think the right system was implemented for him here and the coach wanted him to be something he wasn't he gave it a lot of effort we all could see that but it just didn't work out. Now we'll be satisfied if he's a 2nd liner or McDavid's Kunitz probably. Before we were hoping a 40-50 goal scorer out of this kid.