Did You Know: Obscure/Odd Soccer Facts.
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I'd forgotten about Hibs, but now you mention it, I recollect the insular, arrogant, pea-brained English authorities pressured Chelsea into declining an invitation to compete in the inaugural European Cup.
To give them their due, a year later Manchester United were not to be cowed, however, in retaliation the Football League made them no concessions in its domestic schedule. In the end, anxiety that the Red Devils should be home in time to fulfil a league game was one of the factors behind the plane taking off at Munich when it did.
Post histories here no longer go back to the beginning of the decade, which means that only a scarred few contributors in these parts may recall how 'Glasgow Celtic, 1967' and all it stands for once haunted the forum.
To give them their due, a year later Manchester United were not to be cowed, however, in retaliation the Football League made them no concessions in its domestic schedule. In the end, anxiety that the Red Devils should be home in time to fulfil a league game was one of the factors behind the plane taking off at Munich when it did.
Post histories here no longer go back to the beginning of the decade, which means that only a scarred few contributors in these parts may recall how 'Glasgow Celtic, 1967' and all it stands for once haunted the forum.
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From 'Manchester' to Manchester - a few people may know that the only English top flight champion to end its title defence in relegation is Manchester City.
Less well known, but suitably ridiculous, is that City were the division's top scorers in both those campaigns. These were the days when the tie-breaker for clubs with identical points tallies was goal average ie goals scored divided by goals against. City had a goals average above one - the equivalent to positive goal difference - the year they went down.
Less well known, but suitably ridiculous, is that City were the division's top scorers in both those campaigns. These were the days when the tie-breaker for clubs with identical points tallies was goal average ie goals scored divided by goals against. City had a goals average above one - the equivalent to positive goal difference - the year they went down.
TheMoreYouKnow
Registered User
The countries of former Austria-Hungary in Central Europe were the first football powers on the continent and the first to have professional leagues. The Mitropa Cup was the first major international club competition in the 1920s and featured the best teams from those nations. Teams like Sparta Praha, Rapid and Austria Wien and Ferencvaros made up Europe's elite.
This also had an effect on the national teams naturally (which is more widely known). Famously Hungary was one of the top teams in the world from the 30s through the 50s, but perhaps less well known is that Austria was also considered elite and a potential World Cup winner. Austria's Matthias Sindelar was one of Europe's super stars in the 30s.
This also had an effect on the national teams naturally (which is more widely known). Famously Hungary was one of the top teams in the world from the 30s through the 50s, but perhaps less well known is that Austria was also considered elite and a potential World Cup winner. Austria's Matthias Sindelar was one of Europe's super stars in the 30s.
Theokritos
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Italy participated as well and they too were among the best in the world.
In Vienna, the football craze was such that renowned writers and drama critics like Franz Kafka, Friedrich Torberg and Alfred Polgar were eager to not miss a game of their favourite clubs, philosophized about the differences between football and theatre and penned poems about players.
Even well less well known is that there was also a "European Cup of Nations" featuring the Mitropa countries. With Italy (1934 and 1938 World Champions), Czechoslovakia (World Cup Finalist 1934), Hungary (World Cup Finalist 1938) and Austria (World Cup SF 1934) involved, this was something of an early European Championship and was labeled as such in the countries taking part.
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sabremike
Friend To All Giraffes And Lindy Ruff
India was invited to participate in the 1950 World Cup but pulled out when the organizers refused to let them compete barefoot.
After his first match with the Cosmos at Dowling Stadium Pele informed the club he was quitting as the pitch had caused a skin infection. The club informed him that he was mistaken and that it wasn't an infection: it was green paint they had used to make the pitch look presentable on TV.
After his first match with the Cosmos at Dowling Stadium Pele informed the club he was quitting as the pitch had caused a skin infection. The club informed him that he was mistaken and that it wasn't an infection: it was green paint they had used to make the pitch look presentable on TV.
maclean
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sabremike
Friend To All Giraffes And Lindy Ruff
The Rochester Raging Rhinos are the only non MLS club to win the US Open Cup since MLS teams began taking part of it in 1997 (They won it in 1999 at Crew Stadium with fans holding up a banner reading "If you can't join 'em beat 'em!).
In 2008 owing to the weird MLS playoff format the NY Red Bulls won the Western Conference Championship despite playing in the Eastern Conference.
In 2008 owing to the weird MLS playoff format the NY Red Bulls won the Western Conference Championship despite playing in the Eastern Conference.
Oh and I'll add that, as usual, english wanted to do something differently. So they rejected Chelsea's participation from the first C1.
So United participated in the second edition.
Dumbass enligh FA.
Theokritos
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Many assume that the organization that makes and governs the rules of the game, the International Football Association Board, is a FIFA gremium. Not true. It was founded by the four
British federations (England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland/Northern Ireland) in order to ensure there were agreed-upon rules in international meetings between the four countries. FIFA was only founded almost 20 years later and initially, the founders actually wanted to join the FA in London, "THE" football association. Only when London turned them down, the French, Dutch etc founded a separate world federation.
This world federation decided to make itself subject to the British IFAB and its rules instead of creating its own rule book and governing body. In 1913, the British federations agreed that the FIFA should also represented on the board (with 2 votes, the other 8 votes belonged to the British, two for each federation), but after WW1 they decided to exclude the FIFA representatives. In 1924 they were readmitted and for the next 34 years, the football world followed rules governed by a body in which the British federations had 4 times the votes the world federation had. Only in 1958 did FIFA gain half of the votes (now 4 while each British federation holds one vote). This balance of power remains to this day and it means that FIFA alone cannot enforce any rule changes, they always need the support of two British federations (since a majority of 4 out of 6 votes is required).
British federations (England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland/Northern Ireland) in order to ensure there were agreed-upon rules in international meetings between the four countries. FIFA was only founded almost 20 years later and initially, the founders actually wanted to join the FA in London, "THE" football association. Only when London turned them down, the French, Dutch etc founded a separate world federation.
This world federation decided to make itself subject to the British IFAB and its rules instead of creating its own rule book and governing body. In 1913, the British federations agreed that the FIFA should also represented on the board (with 2 votes, the other 8 votes belonged to the British, two for each federation), but after WW1 they decided to exclude the FIFA representatives. In 1924 they were readmitted and for the next 34 years, the football world followed rules governed by a body in which the British federations had 4 times the votes the world federation had. Only in 1958 did FIFA gain half of the votes (now 4 while each British federation holds one vote). This balance of power remains to this day and it means that FIFA alone cannot enforce any rule changes, they always need the support of two British federations (since a majority of 4 out of 6 votes is required).
Robert Prosinecki is the only player to have scored a goal for two different countries at a World Cup. He scored one goal in 1990 for Yugoslavia and two goals for Croatia in 1998
Some claim Klinsmann did the same, scoring for West Germany and unified Germany but the current Germany claims West Germany results so technically it’s not the same
Incredibly the great Puskas wasn’t able to do it, scoring for Hungary in the 50s but didn’t score when he played for Spain in the World Cup
Some claim Klinsmann did the same, scoring for West Germany and unified Germany but the current Germany claims West Germany results so technically it’s not the same
Incredibly the great Puskas wasn’t able to do it, scoring for Hungary in the 50s but didn’t score when he played for Spain in the World Cup
TheMoreYouKnow
Registered User
When the 89/90 football season started in East Germany few if any people imagined that 12 months later nothing would be the same. The summer of 89 had seen increased attempts by East Germans to flee to the West, but in early August when the season started things had still been fairly calm. In November 1989 of course the Berlin Wall as well as the Stalinist regime fell.
Dynamo Dresden ended up winning the league title that year on the back of young Matthias Sammer and the excellent strike partnership of Ulf Kirsten and Torsten Gütschow. However Dresden did not run away with it. They won it on goal difference vs FC Karl-Marx-Stadt. By the time the last few matches of the season were played, the city of Karl-Marx-Stadt had already decided to return to its old name Chemnitz. Karl-Marx-Stadt/Chemnitz had a golden chance to go clear at the top of the table in the penultimate round of the season - but threw away a 2-0 lead vs lowly Stahl Brandenburg (notably featuring later Dortmund stalwart and current pundit Steffen Freund) to draw. In the last match a 1-0 victory was not enough for Chemnitz as Dresden beat rival Lok Leipzig as well.
But city names were obviously not the only changes. Somehow Dynamo Dresden had actually managed to acquire a West German shirt sponsor over the winter break. The mere attempt could have led to a potential prison sentence for anyone involved in early 1989 but by early 1990 it was just done. Finally, 10 days before the last matches of the 89-90 league season, the new East German democratically elected government signed a treaty to realize full economic and fiscal union with West Germany by July 1st 1990.
Already it was obvious that the country of East Germany would cease to exist shortly, and football wasn't on many people's minds, but full reunification was only formally agreed upon in late August 1990 - by which time the 1990/91 East German season had already started.
The East German league season continued as a zombie league determining the champions of a country that would cease to exist by round 7 of the season. But not just the league season - the East German Cup would also continue. Over the summer of 1990 several East German stars had departed - Dresden lost Sammer and Kirsten, BFC Dynamo lost Thomas Doll and Andreas Thom among others, so the zombie season would also be played without the best East German players. As a result, a club that had usually been a bit of a mid-table non-entity, Hansa Rostock, ended up winning the double. The East German Cup final which Hansa won over underdogs Eisenhüttenstadt in June 1991 was thus the last East German football game - several months after East Germany had ceased to exist.
Being league champs of a nation no longer existing was not entirely meaningless though as it guaranteed them a spot in the 91/92 Bundesliga. Hansa Rostock actually ended up being the by far best former East German club in the 90s which would have been a surprise to most fans in the late 80s. Former top clubs like BFC Dynamo and Lok Leipzig all but disappeared in the lower levels of German football instead.
The East German national team did not go through the charade of playing the Euro 92 qualifiers into which they had already been placed. They were set to play in Group 5 vs West Germany, Wales, Belgium and Luxembourg. However, by the time the reunification treaty was signed, the date for the 1st qualifier in Belgium had already been set and tickets had been sold in Brussels. As a result, East Germany played one more time on September 12th 1990 though the match was counted only as a friendly. About 3 weeks before the country ceased to exist. Funnily enough East Germany won 2-0 - with two goals from Matthias Sammer.
In many ways - though technically before reunification - this was more bizarre than the club competitions continuing. Sammer and others already played in West Germany, even regular people in East Germany were already paid their salaries in West German currency, people in both parts of Germany had jointly celebrated the 1990 World Cup triumph months earlier..and here you have this team playing in the white and blue of the East German national team with the letters DDR on their chest.
Matthias Sammer would debut for the German national team, the reigning World Cup champions, less than 3 months after that match. If reunification had been delayed for a while - which many had actually expected would happen - Sammer would have led his East German side *against* Klinsmann, Matthäus, Völler and Co. in November 1990 as that was the next qualifier on the schedule.
Dynamo Dresden ended up winning the league title that year on the back of young Matthias Sammer and the excellent strike partnership of Ulf Kirsten and Torsten Gütschow. However Dresden did not run away with it. They won it on goal difference vs FC Karl-Marx-Stadt. By the time the last few matches of the season were played, the city of Karl-Marx-Stadt had already decided to return to its old name Chemnitz. Karl-Marx-Stadt/Chemnitz had a golden chance to go clear at the top of the table in the penultimate round of the season - but threw away a 2-0 lead vs lowly Stahl Brandenburg (notably featuring later Dortmund stalwart and current pundit Steffen Freund) to draw. In the last match a 1-0 victory was not enough for Chemnitz as Dresden beat rival Lok Leipzig as well.
But city names were obviously not the only changes. Somehow Dynamo Dresden had actually managed to acquire a West German shirt sponsor over the winter break. The mere attempt could have led to a potential prison sentence for anyone involved in early 1989 but by early 1990 it was just done. Finally, 10 days before the last matches of the 89-90 league season, the new East German democratically elected government signed a treaty to realize full economic and fiscal union with West Germany by July 1st 1990.
Already it was obvious that the country of East Germany would cease to exist shortly, and football wasn't on many people's minds, but full reunification was only formally agreed upon in late August 1990 - by which time the 1990/91 East German season had already started.
The East German league season continued as a zombie league determining the champions of a country that would cease to exist by round 7 of the season. But not just the league season - the East German Cup would also continue. Over the summer of 1990 several East German stars had departed - Dresden lost Sammer and Kirsten, BFC Dynamo lost Thomas Doll and Andreas Thom among others, so the zombie season would also be played without the best East German players. As a result, a club that had usually been a bit of a mid-table non-entity, Hansa Rostock, ended up winning the double. The East German Cup final which Hansa won over underdogs Eisenhüttenstadt in June 1991 was thus the last East German football game - several months after East Germany had ceased to exist.
Being league champs of a nation no longer existing was not entirely meaningless though as it guaranteed them a spot in the 91/92 Bundesliga. Hansa Rostock actually ended up being the by far best former East German club in the 90s which would have been a surprise to most fans in the late 80s. Former top clubs like BFC Dynamo and Lok Leipzig all but disappeared in the lower levels of German football instead.
The East German national team did not go through the charade of playing the Euro 92 qualifiers into which they had already been placed. They were set to play in Group 5 vs West Germany, Wales, Belgium and Luxembourg. However, by the time the reunification treaty was signed, the date for the 1st qualifier in Belgium had already been set and tickets had been sold in Brussels. As a result, East Germany played one more time on September 12th 1990 though the match was counted only as a friendly. About 3 weeks before the country ceased to exist. Funnily enough East Germany won 2-0 - with two goals from Matthias Sammer.
In many ways - though technically before reunification - this was more bizarre than the club competitions continuing. Sammer and others already played in West Germany, even regular people in East Germany were already paid their salaries in West German currency, people in both parts of Germany had jointly celebrated the 1990 World Cup triumph months earlier..and here you have this team playing in the white and blue of the East German national team with the letters DDR on their chest.
Matthias Sammer would debut for the German national team, the reigning World Cup champions, less than 3 months after that match. If reunification had been delayed for a while - which many had actually expected would happen - Sammer would have led his East German side *against* Klinsmann, Matthäus, Völler and Co. in November 1990 as that was the next qualifier on the schedule.
From 1996 to 2014 the Dutch National Team always had at least ONE player with "Van" in their name in the starting lineup.
Netherlands line up without a player with “Van” in their name for the first time in 20 years
Netherlands line up without a player with “Van” in their name for the first time in 20 years
alko
Registered User
alko
Registered User
The case of Alfredo di Stefano is also interesting.
In March 1952, Real Madrid organized a friendly tournament in the Spanish capital, at its newly constructed home ground, River Plate was invited to participate in Real Madrid's 50th-anniversary tournament. The tournament was called Bodas de Oro, but once Real Madrid's Santiago Bernabeu heard about the new powerhouse in South America, Millonarios cancelled the invitation to River Plate and invited the Colombians as the representative of South America. The Colombians participated in the tournament and won it, after drawing 2–2 with Swedish champions IFK Norrkoping and overcoming the Los Blancos who were managed by Argentine legend Hector Scarone by 4–2 with a brace from Saeta Rubia under the presence of President Santiago Bernabéu, who arrived to the stadium to observe Adolfo Pedernera. Instead, Bernabéu asked Millonarios about Di Stéfano and a deal was struck between him and Millonarios owner Alfonso Senor Quevedo. Millonarios would start a global tour and spearheaded by Di Stéfano, they would beat Hungary and world champions Uruguay.
Soon, after Millonarios' return to Colombia, the Barcelona directors visited Buenos Aires and agreed with River Plate, the last FIFA-affiliated team to have held the his card for the transfer of Di Stéfano in 1954 for the equivalent of 150 million Italian liras (according to other sources 200,000 dollars). That was when a head-to-head match between the two Spanish rivals for his purchase was born. In Christmas 1952, Di Stéfano still contracted with Millonarios, returned briefly to Buenos Aires, where he was even making plans to abandon football and start a business as Argentine league was still not professional.
FIFA appointed Armando Muñoz Calero, former president of the Spanish Football Federation as mediator. Calero decided to let Real Madrid play the seasons 1953-1954 and in 1955-1956 and in Barcelona the years 1954-1955 and 1956–1957. The agreement was approved by the Football Association and their respective clubs. Although the Catalans agreed, the decision created various discontent among the Blaugrana members and the president who was forced to resign in September 1953.
As his first few games were unimpressive, Barcelona sold Madrid their half-share, and Di Stéfano moved to the Blancos signing a four-year contract. Real paid 5.5 million Spanish pesetas for the transfer, plus 1.3 million bonus for the purchase, an annual fee to be paid to the Millonarios, 16,000 of salary to the Argentine with doubled bonus compared to his teammates, for a total of 40% of the annual revenue of the Madrid club. This fact contributed greatly to the rivalry with the Catalan club.
In March 1952, Real Madrid organized a friendly tournament in the Spanish capital, at its newly constructed home ground, River Plate was invited to participate in Real Madrid's 50th-anniversary tournament. The tournament was called Bodas de Oro, but once Real Madrid's Santiago Bernabeu heard about the new powerhouse in South America, Millonarios cancelled the invitation to River Plate and invited the Colombians as the representative of South America. The Colombians participated in the tournament and won it, after drawing 2–2 with Swedish champions IFK Norrkoping and overcoming the Los Blancos who were managed by Argentine legend Hector Scarone by 4–2 with a brace from Saeta Rubia under the presence of President Santiago Bernabéu, who arrived to the stadium to observe Adolfo Pedernera. Instead, Bernabéu asked Millonarios about Di Stéfano and a deal was struck between him and Millonarios owner Alfonso Senor Quevedo. Millonarios would start a global tour and spearheaded by Di Stéfano, they would beat Hungary and world champions Uruguay.
Soon, after Millonarios' return to Colombia, the Barcelona directors visited Buenos Aires and agreed with River Plate, the last FIFA-affiliated team to have held the his card for the transfer of Di Stéfano in 1954 for the equivalent of 150 million Italian liras (according to other sources 200,000 dollars). That was when a head-to-head match between the two Spanish rivals for his purchase was born. In Christmas 1952, Di Stéfano still contracted with Millonarios, returned briefly to Buenos Aires, where he was even making plans to abandon football and start a business as Argentine league was still not professional.
FIFA appointed Armando Muñoz Calero, former president of the Spanish Football Federation as mediator. Calero decided to let Real Madrid play the seasons 1953-1954 and in 1955-1956 and in Barcelona the years 1954-1955 and 1956–1957. The agreement was approved by the Football Association and their respective clubs. Although the Catalans agreed, the decision created various discontent among the Blaugrana members and the president who was forced to resign in September 1953.
As his first few games were unimpressive, Barcelona sold Madrid their half-share, and Di Stéfano moved to the Blancos signing a four-year contract. Real paid 5.5 million Spanish pesetas for the transfer, plus 1.3 million bonus for the purchase, an annual fee to be paid to the Millonarios, 16,000 of salary to the Argentine with doubled bonus compared to his teammates, for a total of 40% of the annual revenue of the Madrid club. This fact contributed greatly to the rivalry with the Catalan club.
Bon Esprit
Registered User
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In the mid nineties Kaiserslautern got relegated from Bundesliga, got promoted the following season and immediatley won the German championship.
Goalkeeper Jürgen Rynio manged to get relegated 5 times with 5 differen teams. Recordholder (HM Passlack). One of the clubs he played for and then got relegated was 1.FC Nuremberg. They won the German championship one season before.
Goalkeeper Jürgen Rynio manged to get relegated 5 times with 5 differen teams. Recordholder (HM Passlack). One of the clubs he played for and then got relegated was 1.FC Nuremberg. They won the German championship one season before.
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So I found out that NHL and IIHF are separate entities and why EA Sports games are entitled NHL instead of IIHF and do not have any of the IIHF rights such as competition or jerseys. So my question is how did FIFA - as EA Sports call football games instead of FA 2021 or Ligue 1 1999 - become the entity for all footballing organisations throughout the world?
sabremike
Friend To All Giraffes And Lindy Ruff
The only two teams to have never been relegated from the top flight in Scotland are Celtic (obviously) and Aberdeen (not so obvious).
In 2010 New Zealand became the first side in WC history to go undefeated in group play yet fail to advance to the knockout stage (they drew 3 times).
In 2010 New Zealand became the first side in WC history to go undefeated in group play yet fail to advance to the knockout stage (they drew 3 times).
Alas, off the top of my head I know others beat them to that dubious record. Without checking, there's the Scots in 1974 - beat Zaire 2-0, drew 0-0 with a rubbish, boring, dirty Brazil. That left them needing to beat Yugoslavia, who'd also drawn with Brazil, but whose goal difference was superior thanks to a 9-0 win over Zaire.
Scotland-Yugoslavia finished 1-1.
Ironically, not only were the Scots the first team to be eliminated from the first round having gone unbeaten, they would end the tournament the only team not to have tasted defeat. There was a second group phase of eight teams rather than a quarter-finals round (a stupid arrangement, introduced for this finals series and dropped after 1978. Typically, it was replaced in 1982 by an even stupider concept: twelve teams playing in four groups of three the winners of which reached the semis).
West Germany and Holland emerged from their respective round of eight groups with 100% records to meet in the final, but while the West Germans prevailed, their record in the tournament carried the stain of their 1-0 defeat by the GDR (East Germany) in the first phase.
One eventually happy consequence was that losing to the East kept the West Germans out of Holland's group in the second stage (it has been argued that the West threw the game with that purpose in mind, however it bears mention that the Germans played each other 24 hours before Holland's final group game, and although Cruyff et al were heavy favourites to defeat Bulgaria, the goalless draw with Sweden in their previous game meant the Dutch might be eliminated if they lost).
gary69
Registered User
Cameroon didn't lose a game in 1982 WC first group stage either, but were eliminated based on goals scored.
England suffered a similar fate in that 2nd group stage after two 0-0 draws (alas not losing in the whole tournament, Germany had more points though).
England suffered a similar fate in that 2nd group stage after two 0-0 draws (alas not losing in the whole tournament, Germany had more points though).
sabremike
Friend To All Giraffes And Lindy Ruff
Wasn't that Zaire team the first African side to ever participate in a Word Cup? I remember reading in a book (Believe it was Soccernomics) that the match was notorious for the racial abuse several Scottish players directed at the Zaire players during the match.
Zaire was sub-Saharan Africa's first representatives in the finals. Remarkably, the first African appearance was by Egypt as far back as 1934 - for one game, in a tournament that was knockout football from beginning to end. It was not until 1970 that Morocco became the second African qualifiers.
I think it must have been Soccernomics where you read that dismal tale about the racial abuse of Zaire players - certainly, it was a book in which Simon Kuper had a hand. Billy Bremner (usefully dead from a libel perspective) was named as one of the abusers.
