Music: Did the best popular music come out before the 90s?

[Shareefruck]

Were the 80s really that good? Outside of michael jackson when I think of 80s I think of cheesy rock music

Hearts on fire, we fight for love, We built this city

Those first two songs I like, we built this city might be the worst song ever made though

Then theres a lot of crappy disco in the 70s

The beatles have some good stuff but I'm not crazy about them I'll be honest. Im more of a john lennon guy.

I don't see the point in judging music by the worst examples of it. Judge them by their peaks.

The 80s had Joy Division/New Order, Brian Eno, Glenn Branca, Jon Hassel, Talking Heads, Public Enemy, Scientist, The Fall, The Raincoats, Pixies, Eric B and Rakim, Talk Talk, Josef K, Gang of Four, Bauhaus, Jesus and Mary Chain, Husker Du, The Cramps, R.E.M, Bad Brains, Gun Club, This Heat, Afrika Bambaataa, Laraaji, Cocteau Twins, Minutemen, The Sound, Echo and the Bunnymen, Fela Kuti, Peter Gabriel, John Zorn, De La Soul, Spacemen 3, The Smiths, XTC, Einstürzende Neubauten, Sonic Youth, Tom Waits, and Siouxsie and the Banshees.

Lots of great stuff.

John Lennon was in the Beatles.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I am far from an authority on music but IMO the 60's were the best decade of music. Disco sucked and tainted the 70's IMO, most of the popular stuff in the 80's sucked, the 90's had some good music and would probably be only behind the 60's IMO. One thing that I will say is that in terms of "dance music" I think Flo Rida is pretty damn good at it and overall I'd say that the best dance music has been 90's and beyond with most of the best stuff being in the 2000's and beyond.

 

[Acadmus]

Hearts on fire, we fight for love, We built this city

Those first two songs I like, we built this city might be the worst song ever made though

I have never understood the hate for that song. It's really, REALLY not that bad.

But you clearly don't know much about the 80s if you think Michael Jackson and those 3 songs define the decade.

Prince and the Revolution
The final years of Queen with Freddie Mercury fronting it.
Guns N Roses
New Romantic and New Wave movements with acts like Gary Numan, Depeche Mode, Duran Duran, The Human League, New Order, Spandau Ballet, Talk Talk, and many others.
Great blues-infused rock and roll from Bob Seger, Steve Winwood, and Bruce Hornsby
Iconic albums from bands and artists like John Lennon (Double Fantasy), The Police (Synchronicity), Chicago (Chicago 17), Peter Gabriel (So), The Cure (Disintegration) amongst others.
The rise of talented female pop singers, starting with the likes of Olivia Newton John, Donna Summer, Diana Ross and Irene Cara, but shifting rapidly to Madonna, Cyndi Lauper, and Whitney Houston (amongst others) when they were young and producing really unique music.
The peak of the "urban country" movement with singers like Eddie Rabbitt, Ronnie Milsap, Kenny Rogers and Dolly Parton.
The heyday of great bands like U2, R.E.M., and The Smiths.
Female fronted or composed bands like Blondie, Banarama, The Bangles, and Miami Sound Machine.


And that's just scratching the surface. There was HUGE diversity in the 80s, at least up until around 1986-87 when there was a much bigger movement toward hair metal and monotonous beat dance music which caused a great deal of stagnation in popular music until Nirvana broke through the noise late in 1991 and unleashed the alternative rock era for a brilliant 3 or 4 years.

 

[Whiplash27]

It's all relative. People like all sorts of different stuff. You can find people who believe music went downhill after the popularity of rock music. Others will say it went downhill once rap music became popular. Others still will say that when the electronic dance/hip hop fusion type music took hold was the end. I personally hate popular music post early-2000s.

I personally love the old crooners, which for whatever reason no one here seems to enjoy.

 

[tony d]

Yeah, there was some good music then but to me the best music is from the 90's.

 

[aufheben]

What is pop music even defined as? It's such a weird term.

 

[Mikeaveli]

Yeah the definition of "popular" music is what makes this hard to answer imo. Is Madlib popular music? The Mars Volta? The Microphones? Death Grips? Squarepusher?

 

[Shareefruck]

We should just discard the term entirely, because what does it matter how well the public is able to judge what's good or not? As a collective, we're never a good authority either way and the things that make them popular are usually arbitrary and unrelated to what makes them good or bad.

If the ultimate point is to determine when music was most rewarding or impressive, popularity is pretty irrelevant.

 

[MoreOrr]

You've confused me.

If we let "popularity" to be the determiner of what music is best, then what is the question "Did the best popular music come out before the 90s?" asking? Did the most popular popular music come out before the 90s?

Are you suggesting that he's asking if the heights of musical fame were bigger before the 90s? Isn't that just a definitive yes because of things like Elvis and the British Invasion and Michael Jackson? What is there to discuss, if that's the case? I don't think anyone will argue that Celine Dion was more popular than Elvis.

He also mentioned Velvet Underground, so I doubt he was using popularity as the barometer. Whatever it is, these types of discussions lose me when subjective value isn't the barometer used. Who cares what the most popular thing is? I care about what I think is actually good.

Well then, as some have pointed out, the question is totally subjective. I looked at it in a way that I believe the question can actually be objectively answered. Your opinion of the best popular music will be different from mine and different from most people who have completely different tastes than yours.

If it was meant to be a totally subjective question, then he should have asked: In your opinion, what era had the best popular music? I suppose it might be a curiosity question to survey those who answer and is what the major opinion might be on HFBoards entertainment board.

And besides, my answer did pin-point roughly an 11-year stretch from 1971 - 1982, which also roughly corresponds with the idea in the OP. And that longer stretch of time I mentioned also more or less corresponds with the idea of many of the first who posted and said that the 90s should be included. The only thing I did was to try to give some reason for the answer that wasn't based on my own subjective opinion about what the answer should be.

 

[Xelebes]

I typically define music as the following:

1) Music that has been published and the copyright was asserted by the author. Happy Birthday does not count, no matter how much Warner Bros tried to assert such.

2) A return on the music that is monetised through the assertion of the copyright and not by other means, such as patronage. This also omits where no money has been attempted to be collected by the author. For example, songs published by NoCopyrightSounds would be disqualified.

3) The genre of pop music, if we are to further refine the definition into a smaller subset of music is any music that abides by the previous criteria where broad appeal is sought, even if it does not abide by the highest standards. This permits notions of synthpop (broad appeal sought with synthesisers), indie pop (broad appeal sought with limited channels and resources) and so forth.

 

[Shareefruck]

Well then, as some have pointed out, the question is totally subjective. I looked at it in a way that I believe the question can actually be objectively answered. Your opinion of the best popular music will be different from mine and different from most people who have completely different tastes than yours.

If it was meant to be a totally subjective question, then he should have asked: In your opinion, what era had the best popular music? I suppose it might be a curiosity question to survey those who answer and is what the major opinion might be on HFBoards entertainment board.

And besides, my answer did pin-point roughly an 11-year stretch from 1971 - 1982, which also roughly corresponds with the idea in the OP. And that longer stretch of time I mentioned also more or less corresponds with the idea of many of the first who posted and said that the 90s should be included. The only thing I did was to try to give some reason for the answer that wasn't based on my own subjective opinion about what the answer should be.

Don't get me wrong-- I'm not criticizing your take/reasoning, I'm just confused by it. Is my interpretation of your take on the thread correct, then? That it's about whether or not the eras before the 90s were more culturally dominated by musicians/music? Isn't that a pretty definitive/objective and unanimously easy to answer 'yes'?

I don't really see "Then it's totally subjective" as being something that invalidates a question or makes it any less worth discussing, though, personally. I also don't agree that "in your opinion" is ever anything that needs to be directly specified, especially with something as inherently subjective as music.

Really, it comes down to what the poster consistitutes as being "best", whether that's objective or subjective.

 

[MoreOrr]

Don't get me wrong-- I'm not criticizing your take/reasoning, I'm just confused by it. Is my interpretation of your take on the thread correct, then? That it's about whether or not the eras before the 90s were more culturally dominated by musicians/music? Isn't that a pretty definitive/objective and unanimously easy to answer 'yes'?

I don't really see "Then it's totally subjective" as being something that invalidates a question or makes it any less worth discussing, though, personally. I also don't agree that "in your opinion" is ever anything that needs to be directly specified, especially with something as inherently subjective as music.

Really, it comes down to what the poster consistitutes as being "best", whether that's objective or subjective.

Ok, well I think the best thing I can do here, with respect to your confusion regarding my answer, is simply to give you a different answer, a more personal answer if it must be.

I think the best era of "popular" music started with The Beatles and pretty much ended with U2 and "Achtung Baby". During that period there were of course The Beatles, Simon & Garfunkel, the best years of Pink Floyd, The Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Michael Jackson, Phil Collins, Madonna, and U2, among other hugely popular bands like Led Zeppelin and Queen.

Of course Elvis was hugely famous, but his fame was for more than just his music.

 

[aufheben]

I don't see the point in judging music by the worst examples of it. Judge them by their peaks.

The 80s had Joy Division/New Order, Brian Eno, Glenn Branca, Jon Hassel, Talking Heads, Public Enemy, Scientist, The Fall, The Raincoats, Pixies, Eric B and Rakim, Talk Talk, Josef K, Gang of Four, Bauhaus, Jesus and Mary Chain, Husker Du, The Cramps, R.E.M, Bad Brains, Gun Club, This Heat, Afrika Bambaataa, Laraaji, Cocteau Twins, Minutemen, The Sound, Echo and the Bunnymen, Fela Kuti, Peter Gabriel, John Zorn, De La Soul, Spacemen 3, The Smiths, XTC, Einstürzende Neubauten, Sonic Youth, Tom Waits, and Siouxsie and the Banshees.

Lots of great stuff.

John Lennon was in the Beatles.

This is an all-time favorite group of mine despite their relatively small discography.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

What is pop music even defined as? It's such a weird term.

Yeah the definition of "popular" music is what makes this hard to answer imo. Is Madlib popular music? The Mars Volta? The Microphones? Death Grips? Squarepusher?

I have assumed for the sake of this thread that "popular" as music of and for the common people, as opposed to "classical" or "art" music.

That said, even those terms aren't sufficient any more, as a lot of contemporary "classical" music uses electronics very heavily and some improvisation and such that is normally aligned with various "popular" forms.

Also, jazz would have been considered "popular" but is it such any longer?

To answer the OP question, of course it would be considered better since you've got centuries worth of music versus just 30 years or so. Which isn't really what the OP is asking, I understand. The interesting things is that the internet allows us to know more of any music currently being made, both good and bad and in-between.

Rambling post out.

 

[Petrouth]

I guess ill add a differing opinion to pretty much all in this thread. For background, im just the average 23 year old white male. I cant stand any of the bands or acts the OP listed. And my social group, which is rather diverse but around the same age, is the same. Ill always have nostalgia for the early-mid 2000s pop punk-rock bands but I absolutely love the music coming out now. Im sorry but I will take Mumford and Sons over The Rolling Stones easily. Of Monsters and Men and The Fratellis sound infinitely better than Bob Dylan or Velvet Undergound ever will to me.

That being said, I do actually also enjoy big band such as Sinatra and generic rock like Bon Jovi. You can say you like decades old music more than whats being produced now and thats fine. Its subjective. But to outright say that old music is better than new music is just idiotic. Akin to those saying that newer music is better than old music. I like what I like, you like what you like. Im not gonna say your stuff is garbage, I just dont like it

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Were the 80s really that good? Outside of michael jackson when I think of 80s I think of cheesy rock music

I was born in 81 and I feel this way for the most part as well, as the 90s where really when I started getting into music with the music of the day (alt, grunge) as well as more classic rock, but for the most part was not a fan of the 80s. I do wonder if that is sort of a natural thing though. I feel like everyone romanticizes the music of their teenage years, and because of that down plays the music that came directly before them. Do kids who were teenagers in the 00's tend to think 90s music was overrated? Or maybe that phenomenon is gone now because kids have easy access to anything with the internet.

I feel like everyone should have to disclose there age when they comment on this thread as I'd be curious to see how that effects peoples tastes.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

What is pop music even defined as? It's such a weird term.

I think the term made sense back in the day, when there was just FM radio or MTV to judge what was popular. You could go to any city and except to hear a lot of the same songs by the same artists at any given time.

I'm not sure what it means any more though, but it used to be pretty easy to understand.

 

[aufheben]

I think the term made sense back in the day, when there was just FM radio or MTV to judge what was popular. You could go to any city and except to hear a lot of the same songs by the same artists at any given time.

I'm not sure what it means any more though, but it used to be pretty easy to understand.

Thats a good point.

 

[Know Your Enemy]

I am far from an authority on music but IMO the 60's were the best decade of music. Disco sucked and tainted the 70's IMO, most of the popular stuff in the 80's sucked, the 90's had some good music and would probably be only behind the 60's IMO. One thing that I will say is that in terms of "dance music" I think Flo Rida is pretty damn good at it and overall I'd say that the best dance music has been 90's and beyond with most of the best stuff being in the 2000's and beyond.

Funk, Punk and Heavy Metal/Hard Rock peaked in the 70s which more than makes up for Disco...although I like Disco too. the 70s are my favorite decade for music.

 

[Acadmus]

We should just discard the term entirely, because what does it matter how well the public is able to judge what's good or not? As a collective, we're never a good authority either way and the things that make them popular are usually arbitrary and unrelated to what makes them good or bad.

If the ultimate point is to determine when music was most rewarding or impressive, popularity is pretty irrelevant.

It wasn't the ultimate point. The question specifically asks if the best POPULAR music came out before the 90s. We're rating only that which - whatever the criteria the public uses - was popular. I take that to be the point of the thread. I would say in this case you're either missing that point or trying to derail a thread whose topic isn't to your liking.

 

[Whiplash27]

Anything in the billboard hot 100 is probably a safe bet to call "pop music" or at least the top 40 anyway.
http://www.billboard.com/charts/hot-100

 

[Acadmus]

I think the term made sense back in the day, when there was just FM radio or MTV to judge what was popular. You could go to any city and except to hear a lot of the same songs by the same artists at any given time.

I'm not sure what it means any more though, but it used to be pretty easy to understand.

The only difference between then and now in determining popular music is that downloads are now included. Popular music used to be rated based on record and single sales and airplay (of course, payola influenced this, but not for every song since it would have been fiscally unfeasible to promote all music that way). You could also look at who was selling tickets to concerts and determine there were some bands people flocked to in concert but didn't necessarily buy their albums (Grateful Dead and Phish for instance).

Since radio and recorded music still exist, you can continue to use those definitions for "popular" even though there are now more ways to distribute music. Not every band is niche - even before the internet there were bands that were highly talented and even critically acclaimed that were completely unsuccessful commercially (there's a couple off the top of my head that were some of my favorite bands). Trying to demagogue to blur the definition and take the thread off course just because you don't like the popular music it's discussing but think there such other great music that's not popular but you wish it was is just hijacking the thread.

 

[Acadmus]

I think the term made sense back in the day, when there was just FM radio or MTV to judge what was popular. You could go to any city and except to hear a lot of the same songs by the same artists at any given time.

By the way, you may be too young to know this, but there was a time before programmed network radio where local DJs had a lot of choice in what they played, so when you went from city to city you ended up hearing what was popular in the region.

 

[BonMorrison]

Probably but I still prefer the music I grew up with / modern music because I connect to it more.

 

[Shareefruck]

It wasn't the ultimate point. The question specifically asks if the best POPULAR music came out before the 90s. We're rating only that which - whatever the criteria the public uses - was popular. I take that to be the point of the thread. I would say in this case you're either missing that point or trying to derail a thread whose topic isn't to your liking.

Uhh, yeah.. That's precisely what I'm suggesting-- I don't know why you're saying that like I'm hiding it or as if it's a mischievous agenda.

My upfront comment was basically "Blegh, what does it matter if something's considered popular music or not anyways-- why is that of interest? It's a pretty arbitrary definition, like asking what the best music with the letter A in the title is. I'd rather we all just derail/ignore the thread's intended premise and turn it into the useful thing that matters instead."